Evidence revealed during the course of the Wrongful Death action

[K_Z]

I have a question that the writing on the wall brings up.

Is there any evidence to suggest that Jonah was expected to come home at any point that night or extremely early the next morning?

I think I remember reading that she was going to bring him clean clothes the next day, but the writing on the wall, IF she didn't write it herself, makes it seem like he was expected to discover her.

I agree. I think the message was intended for Jonah whether or not he was expected to come home and find Rebecca hanging.

And why would anyone committing suicide, refer to themselves in the third person?

IMO, it sounds like a very angry and sarcastic message to Jonah. IMO, it sounds like a message from an angry and sarcastic Dina-- who has gone to great lengths to publicly discuss how Rebecca DIDN'T "save Max" by withholding CPR. She even publicly posted Max's EMS run report (it's still there) on her maxshacknai . com website, highlighting "no CPR". Dina has been very hung up on the "no CPR/ CPR within 2 minutes" thing for a long time, despite what the outcome studies show for traumatic asystole in children, and IMO, what she would have been told about Max's prognosis within a few hours of his admission to Rady (see the EMS thread linked below: )

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?185699-Max-Shacknai-EMS-Report

IMO, I think Dina was told Rebecca started CPR and tried to save Max, and when she "discovered" that no CPR was in progress when EMS arrived, she immediately jumped to the conclusion that "if only" RZ had started CPR, Max would have lived and been just fine. Hence the sarcastic and angry "she saved him can he save her" message to Jonah. JMO.

 

[Betty P]

I agree. I think the message was intended for Jonah whether or not he was expected to come home and find Rebecca hanging.

And why would anyone committing suicide, refer to themselves in the third person?

IMO, it sounds like a very angry and sarcastic message to Jonah. IMO, it sounds like a message from an angry and sarcastic Dina-- who has gone to great lengths to publicly discuss how Rebecca DIDN'T "save Max" by withholding CPR. She even publicly posted Max's EMS run report (it's still there) on her maxshacknai . com website, highlighting "no CPR". Dina has been very hung up on the "no CPR/ CPR within 2 minutes" thing for a long time, despite what the outcome studies show for traumatic asystole in children, and IMO, what she would have been told about Max's prognosis within a few hours of his admission to Rady (see the EMS thread linked below: )

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?185699-Max-Shacknai-EMS-Report

IMO, I think Dina was told Rebecca started CPR and tried to save Max, and when she "discovered" that no CPR was in progress when EMS arrived, she immediately jumped to the conclusion that "if only" RZ had started CPR, Max would have lived and been just fine. Hence the sarcastic and angry "she saved him can he save her" message to Jonah. JMO.

Thanks. I was going to post something similar a while back about the painted message's reference to performing CPR on MS. Someone had posted a comment here expressing strong outrage and anger about their (IMO incorrect) belief that RZ did nothing to help MS before paramedics arrived. The emotion and phrasing in the post was very similar to the note on the door.

DR erroneously assumed RZ's inability to administer rescue breaths caused MS's death. That assumption and the rage against RZ later morphed into a strange conspiracy theory that RZ threw MS over the balcony railing and down the stairs.

 

[Ausgirl]

I really don't want to delve too deeply into Max's case here, but I'm wondering if anyone can remember how long was it after Max was taken to hospital that Rebecca claimed to have heard him say "Ocean"? Is there any way Dina could have heard about that prior to Rebecca's death?

I ask, because when *I* heard it, then looked at Max's injuries, I was quite taken aback. I would imagine that any mother in the same situation would be thinking "that's a lie", if they understood the nature of the injuries and then heard about the comment.

Could have been fuel for the fire, is my point. I don't mean to start up a debate, just to be clear.

 

[Zinn]

I agree. I think the message was intended for Jonah whether or not he was expected to come home and find Rebecca hanging.

And why would anyone committing suicide, refer to themselves in the third person?

IMO, it sounds like a very angry and sarcastic message to Jonah. IMO, it sounds like a message from an angry and sarcastic Dina-- who has gone to great lengths to publicly discuss how Rebecca DIDN'T "save Max" by withholding CPR. She even publicly posted Max's EMS run report (it's still there) on her maxshacknai . com website, highlighting "no CPR". Dina has been very hung up on the "no CPR/ CPR within 2 minutes" thing for a long time, despite what the outcome studies show for traumatic asystole in children, and IMO, what she would have been told about Max's prognosis within a few hours of his admission to Rady (see the EMS thread linked below: )

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?185699-Max-Shacknai-EMS-Report

IMO, I think Dina was told Rebecca started CPR and tried to save Max, and when she "discovered" that no CPR was in progress when EMS arrived, she immediately jumped to the conclusion that "if only" RZ had started CPR, Max would have lived and been just fine. Hence the sarcastic and angry "she saved him can he save her" message to Jonah. JMO.

IIRC, this was also a theme NR came back to over and over again during her lengthy interview. No CPR within two minutes. I recall thinking she mentioned this more than anything else during her interview.

All of the above is just my opinion.

 

[bourne]

IIRC, this was also a theme NR came back to over and over again during her lengthy interview. No CPR within two minutes. I recall thinking she mentioned this more than anything else during her interview.

All of the above is just my opinion.

I'm just going to piggyback of this and KZ's posts above that if Nina believed that Rebecca had caused or failed to prevent Max's critically fatal injuries and that he wasn't going to survive the night Rebecca was found murdered, AND Nina had clearly stated in her audio interview with CBS8 that Dina asked Nina to confront Rebecca about what happened to Max, then that clearly shows Dina also knew about Max's critical injuries and impending death that same night Rebecca was murdered.

How Dina later and currently denies that she had any knowledge of Max's critical fatal injuries on Tuesday (that she didn't find out until Fri/Sat later that week and she & Jonah had to pull the plug on their son on Sat) is clearly that: a bold-faced LIE.

Why would she lie? The only logical conclusion is that she knew that her knowledge of Max's fatal injuries on Tues would give her motive and make her look guilty of having murdered Rebecca. Hence she tried to distance herself from having been given knowledge by doctors about critically important info about her own son Max's injuries.

Ask yourself: Why would Nina know about Max's critical fatal injuries the Tues night she goes to confront Rebecca at the Spreckels mansion and Rebecca is then found murdered the next morning, and Dina the biological mother of Max not know when according to Nina's only testimony on CBS8 audio, it was Dina who directed Nina to confront Rebecca that Tues night? Really an aunt Nina had forecasted info from a crystal ball *before* a biological mother Dina would find out about Max's fatal condition?

 

[K_Z]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Wrongful-Death-action&p=11265172#post11265172

As I ponder Nina's unnecessary and lengthy speculative comments about Rebecca's state of mind (which Nina could not possibly have any firsthand knowledge of) and Rebecca's alleged actions, in her response to the Second amended complaint, I have to say that I think she is very disingenuous and hypocritical.

Nina never admits, or even mentions, in her 12 page response that she was attempting to communicate with Rebecca by text the night she died, and when RZ didn't respond to her text, she actually walked to Spreckles late at night to confront Rebecca (remember the new yoga pants and pink Coach wristlet?) And, of course, Nina has said in interviews that she never touched the gate or anything, just walked around looking in the windows, etc.

That all seems very curious that she would omit something that significant, while making such highly speculative comments and accusations about Rebecca. In fact, it sounds more like her priority is staying on the attack against Rebecca, rather than focusing on defending herself! I find that extremely curious and noteworthy-- that in the midst of a lawsuit accusing her of causing Rebecca's wrongful death, that she thinks it's of critical importance to continue to attack a dead woman, rather than defend herself! Now that's stunning chutzpah, IMO. She didn't have to say any of that about Rebecca in her response to the SAC, and probably should have refrained from all of it, IMO.

Apparently, those factual details of her being at Spreckles and trying to "talk to" Rebecca are sufficiently self incriminating that it seemed much better for Nina to insert a bunch of distraction, accusation, and speculation into her response, rather than to simply admit that she was on the property the night Rebecca died, with the persistent goal of "speaking to" Rebecca.

At least Adam was honest enough to admit he was actually there in his response to the SAC.

And at least Dina has skilled enough representation to prevent her from making more accusatory and inflammatory comments about Rebecca in her response to the SAC.

IMO, Nina's obvious bright hot anger toward dead Rebecca hasn't dimmed a bit in the last 3 years. That might not play well if this case makes it in front of a jury. JMO.

I mean, imagine if she had just written something simple in her response, that she has no direct knowledge of how RZ died, but knows it was ruled a suicide. And included that she was trying to communicate with her to find out what happened to her nephew, and walked over after she texted her. Doesn't that sound much better than spinning the suicide story? I have to wonder why her attorneys were willing to include all of that speculative story in the response? It just makes Nina look angry and vindictive, IMO.

It's kind of an ongoing pattern with Nina, IMO. She always gives too much extraneous and distracting detail, when less would be more appropriate. IMO, that's a sign of deception.

 

[EVLizzel]

Did the police ever examine the text communications between RZ and NR or anyone else that day? Have they been released, if they exist, in any way? Isthere any expectation of them becoming part of the WDS?

I hope this isn't off topic, but is it known whether JS is still in contact with DS/NR much? I wonder what their relationship is like now that MS has passed. If DS still blames RZ for MS's death, it would stand to reason she would blame JS for bringing RZ into his life.

 

[Ausgirl]

I always thought this interview showed a lot of rage and blaming:

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15982091/exclusive-max-shacknais-aunt-talks-about-coronado-mansion-deaths

Nina mentions the "Ocean" thing there.. is part of why I'm wondering how soon they had access to that information.

 

[EVLizzel]

Well, if she believes what she's saying than the anger is understandable, IMO.

 

[Ausgirl]

Well, yes - it is understandable. But pertinent to the law suit is that Nina is saying the moment Rebecca picked her up from the airport, she thought Rebecca could be to blame for max's death. This is bolstered by their further conversation, then Nina isn't satisfied with those replies and later goes to the mansion to "confront" Rebecca.

It shows blame being apportioned to Rebecca quite some hours before her death.

That's why I'm curious about *when* the information regarding "Ocean" was made known to Dina and/or Jonah. It's really not mentioned anywhere I can find, as to when that initial first responders report was made available to them.


Romano also said she believes Zahau lied about Max uttering the name of the dog before he lost consciousness.

"I believe that's what Rebecca said because that sounds pretty good doesn't it? ‘It's not my fault; it's the dog's (fault). I didn't do anything. It must have been the dog.' I don't believe that statement to be true. That's my quote. I don't believe that statement that Rebecca said is true. I believe that's a complete lie," said Romano.

 

[bourne]

A thought that occurs to me is that IF someone did murder RZ, stage her murder as a suicide, that all the japanese video/bondage stuff might point to a person that boxed all asian people as one, someone who didn't realize or care what her ethnicity really was.

Was there any evidence of googling japanese bondage/*advertiser censored* prior to around the time of her death?

Was it ever determined what kind of *advertiser censored* AS watched that morning/was into? How about JS?

It just makes me think of how fetishized Asian women often are by white men.

It's easy to imagine how insanely incensed & jealous the wife of a white male with the Asian fetish would be that the ex-husband ditched the white woman for the object of his Asian fetish, and that the new younger woman is not only physically prettier and slim and trim, but also an Asian. To that end, it's easy to envision that the white ex-wife would go through elaborate, sensational, melodramatic lengths to "get at" (exact revenge via murder and humiliation of) this new Asian love/lover of her ex-husband so much so that the elaborate, convoluted scheme to shame and hang a naked Asian woman Rebecca in the most exaggerated, hyperbolic way possible -- equipped with rope-bindings and noose and gags and hanging rope extended off a bed leg over a balcony railing of more then 10 feet PLUS the crazy sarcastic painted in black door message in the third person directed at the ex-husband would make sense.

I believe once this *picture is painted & hung for all to see* (irony so not lost on me) for the Judge/jury, Dina would easily be convicted.

 

[bourne]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Wrongful-Death-action&p=11265172#post11265172

As I ponder Nina's unnecessary and lengthy speculative comments about Rebecca's state of mind (which Nina could not possibly have any firsthand knowledge of) and Rebecca's alleged actions, in her response to the Second amended complaint, I have to say that I think she is very disingenuous and hypocritical.

Nina never admits, or even mentions, in her 12 page response that she was attempting to communicate with Rebecca by text the night she died, and when RZ didn't respond to her text, she actually walked to Spreckles late at night to confront Rebecca (remember the new yoga pants and pink Coach wristlet?) And, of course, Nina has said in interviews that she never touched the gate or anything, just walked around looking in the windows, etc.

That all seems very curious that she would omit something that significant, while making such highly speculative comments and accusations about Rebecca. In fact, it sounds more like her priority is staying on the attack against Rebecca, rather than focusing on defending herself! I find that extremely curious and noteworthy-- that in the midst of a lawsuit accusing her of causing Rebecca's wrongful death, that she thinks it's of critical importance to continue to attack a dead woman, rather than defend herself! Now that's stunning chutzpah, IMO. She didn't have to say any of that about Rebecca in her response to the SAC, and probably should have refrained from all of it, IMO.

Apparently, those factual details of her being at Spreckles and trying to "talk to" Rebecca are sufficiently self incriminating that it seemed much better for Nina to insert a bunch of distraction, accusation, and speculation into her response, rather than to simply admit that she was on the property the night Rebecca died, with the persistent goal of "speaking to" Rebecca.

At least Adam was honest enough to admit he was actually there in his response to the SAC.

And at least Dina has skilled enough representation to prevent her from making more accusatory and inflammatory comments about Rebecca in her response to the SAC.

IMO, Nina's obvious bright hot anger toward dead Rebecca hasn't dimmed a bit in the last 3 years. That might not play well if this case makes it in front of a jury. JMO.

I mean, imagine if she had just written something simple in her response, that she has no direct knowledge of how RZ died, but knows it was ruled a suicide. And included that she was trying to communicate with her to find out what happened to her nephew, and walked over after she texted her. Doesn't that sound much better than spinning the suicide story? I have to wonder why her attorneys were willing to include all of that speculative story in the response? It just makes Nina look angry and vindictive, IMO.

It's kind of an ongoing pattern with Nina, IMO. She always gives too much extraneous and distracting detail, when less would be more appropriate. IMO, that's a sign of deception.

I hope Nina stays the way she is so that the truth about the vicious, heinous, despicable, hateful, jealous nature of the murder of Rebecca will finally come out.

 

[bourne]

Well, yes - it is understandable. But pertinent to the law suit is that Nina is saying the moment Rebecca picked her up from the airport, she thought Rebecca could be to blame for max's death. This is bolstered by their further conversation, then Nina isn't satisfied with those replies and later goes to the mansion to "confront" Rebecca.

It shows blame being apportioned to Rebecca quite some hours before her death.

That's why I'm curious about *when* the information regarding "Ocean" was made known to Dina and/or Jonah. It's really not mentioned anywhere I can find, as to when that initial first responders report was made available to them.


Romano also said she believes Zahau lied about Max uttering the name of the dog before he lost consciousness.

"I believe that's what Rebecca said because that sounds pretty good doesn't it? ‘It's not my fault; it's the dog's (fault). I didn't do anything. It must have been the dog.' I don't believe that statement to be true. That's my quote. I don't believe that statement that Rebecca said is true. I believe that's a complete lie," said Romano.

Good point! You picked up excellent details. If Nina had interrogated Rebecca right from the get-go about "Ocean" when Rebecca picked Nina up at the airport on Tuesday morning, then we know that Dina had been communicating with Nina about that exact word prior to Rebecca being murdered that night.

As KZ pointed out, Adam had no reason to believe Max's injury was not an accident, and it clearly appears that only Nina and Dina had pointed fingers at Rebecca for causing/failing to prevent Max's injury. Certainly the two defendants in the WDS with the most hate, jealousy and contempt for Rebecca and who blamed Rebecca for Max's accident were Dina and Nina, not Adam.

I suppose what I'm getting at is that if Adam was part of the plan to kill Rebecca and stage a bizarre crime scene, he was a stooge Dina & Nina used. He definitely was not the leader in Rebecca's murder. Given his social awkwardness and his demeanor towards gullibility, he was likely suckered into doing Dina & Nina's dirty deeds.

 

[inthedark14]

Well, if she believes what she's saying than the anger is understandable, IMO.

Certainly, and she did/does believe it. If I thought someone harmed my nephew, I'd be angry too. I wouldn't march over to the residence of said person, texting and demanding answers at 10:00 at night and then give a rambling defensive interview to the press after the person I was SO ANGRY with was found dead the morning after I went there to get answers out of her.

ALWAYS MOO

 

[BBL]

From Nina's response:
This answering Defendant is
informed and believes and thereon alleges that Rebecca Zahau thereafter climbed
over the balcony, placed the other slip knot end of the rope tied to the bed over her
head and also tied a light blue or turquoise colored long sleeve t-shirt over the rope
and around her neck, placing a portion of the shirt into her mouth (as indicated by
the Medical Examiner's Office finding dried secretions on the t-shirt) so that no one
would be alerted to her suicide and intervene to stop her self-intended death, and
thereafter slipped her hands into the pre-tied loose wrist binding and allowed herself
to fall off the edge of the balcony, hanging herself.

BBM - This struck me as I don't believe I had seen this before. So, I had to point it out and ask for opinions. Is Nina alleging that Rebecca actually climbed over the balcony rail and then inserted the rope over her head, her hands & feet, and then tied the shirt? Is this her answer to how Rebecca managed to only leave part of a footprint and not disturb the dust on the balcony? If so, this is patently ridiculous... that balcony has no place to stand once over the rail. And even if there was a small ledge, the ropes would have dragged and disturbed the dust. She would have had to hold on and she would have leaned back against the rail to do all this crazy last minute maneuvering.

So, did I just read this wrong?

 

[bourne]

From Nina's response:
This answering Defendant is
informed and believes and thereon alleges that Rebecca Zahau thereafter climbed
over the balcony, placed the other slip knot end of the rope tied to the bed over her
head and also tied a light blue or turquoise colored long sleeve t-shirt over the rope
and around her neck, placing a portion of the shirt into her mouth (as indicated by
the Medical Examiner's Office finding dried secretions on the t-shirt) so that no one
would be alerted to her suicide and intervene to stop her self-intended death, and
thereafter slipped her hands into the pre-tied loose wrist binding and allowed herself
to fall off the edge of the balcony, hanging herself.

BBM - This struck me as I don't believe I had seen this before. So, I had to point it out and ask for opinions. Is Nina alleging that Rebecca actually climbed over the balcony rail and then inserted the rope over her head, her hands & feet, and then tied the shirt? Is this her answer to how Rebecca managed to only leave part of a footprint and not disturb the dust on the balcony? If so, this is patently ridiculous... that balcony has no place to stand once over the rail. And even if there was a small ledge, the ropes would have dragged and disturbed the dust. She would have had to hold on and she would have leaned back against the rail to do all this crazy last minute maneuvering.

So, did I just read this wrong?

What I find striking and shocking is that Nina is so specific and detailed it sounds like her confession to murdering Rebecca.

I wonder *who* it was who "informed" Nina the defendant as that's how she starts her testimony here. Quite strange.

 

[Ausgirl]

I think it's very significant, the way Nina interrogated Rebecca in the car from the airport, the way she describes those events later, her perception of Rebecca being evasive and untruthful (whether she actually was, or not, is neither here nor there for the sake of this suit) and the anger evident in that speech.

For one, it implies Nina was out to drag information from Rebecca from the get-go, this seems to be her "role" as she repeatedly attempts do so, and is repeatedly unsatisfied with Rebecca's replies. I can, in Nina's own description of the day, see that situation escalating - to the point where, late at night, and with RZ not picking up her phone, Nina could NOT wait until morning to get the answers she was demanding but marched on over there to get them.

Again, if that was MY nephew, in those exact circumstances, I can't say I would not do the same thing. I have an epic temper, when given good reason for it to flare. But then, if the subject of my rage thereafter died in suspicious circumstances... well. I'd probably look guilty, wouldn't I.


It also seems significant to me that on the night before Rebecca's body is 'discovered', the laws of time and space and electronic communication devices seem to have just... gone a bit loopy. I haven't made a full list, and probably won't have time to scour documents for it today, but I'm betting there's quite a few "strange discrepancies" from the moment Max arrived at hospital to the moment police arrived at Spreckels Mansion to attend Rebecca's death. I'm sure someone else has likely already done so anyway..but if I can't find one, it would interesting to make such a list, I think.

 

[Ausgirl]

Also significant, though I am not sure *how* significant to this suit, is Gore's misdirectional FAQ on the case, his general antipathy to release details which might challenge the suicide finding, and so on.. and his history with handling some monumental LE 'errors' in his time with the FBI, notably Ruby Ridge -- but there's other quite equivocal examples as well.

Now, if a line could be drawn directly between Gore's political/personal agendas and Shacknai money or support, it may help establish why so much of the evidence is equivocal/not dealt with properly/remains unclearly reported. As well as the horrendous treatment of Rebecca after her death.

Considering Gore's history, I don't think this is a frivolous thing to explore. But again, I don't know useful that would be, to this suit.

Following the death of Deputy Marshal Degan, the FBI assumed primary jurisdiction over the investigation of the events relating to his death. The FBI's handling of the investigation at Ruby Ridge has been criticized on several grounds: that the FBI's command and control of the crisis site was not handled properly in that insufficient emphasis was placed on negotiations to resolve the crisis; that the FBI failed to coordinate law enforcement components properly; and that false information was knowingly given to the media to cover up the cause of Sammy Weaver's death, Vicki Weaver's death, and Kevin Harris' and Randy Weaver's injuries.

http://www.byington.org/carl/ruby/ruby4h.htm


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge#The_siege_and_controversy
http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2014/oct/29/ticker-remember-ruby-ridge-sheriff-gore/#
http://voiceofsandiego.org/2010/05/18/the-job-of-the-sheriff-is-not-to-kick-down-doors/
http://articles.latimes.com/1995-09-20/news/mn-48017_1_ruby-ridge

If anyone can find a full text version of this apparently now utterly vanished article, I'd be very grateful:

Justice Department probe of an alleged FBI cover-up of its conduct at Ruby Ridge... http://www.seattlepi.com/archives/1995/9509200047.asp

 

[*Lash*]

Did the police ever examine the text communications between RZ and NR or anyone else that day? Have they been released, if they exist, in any way? Isthere any expectation of them becoming part of the WDS?

I hope this isn't off topic, but is it known whether JS is still in contact with DS/NR much? I wonder what their relationship is like now that MS has passed. If DS still blames RZ for MS's death, it would stand to reason she would blame JS for bringing RZ into his life.

Search warrants were only requested for Rebecca, Dina and Jonah's phone records. Only Rebecca's full cellphone bill has been released. The time Nina allegedly texted Rebecca shows differently on Rebecca's records. There may be an easily explanation, example time zones. Nina supplied the media part of her phone records. Not her bill, just a query performed on her cellphone providers website. There is a lot of discussion about what Nina provided in earlier threads here at WS. Jonah and Dina's records have not been released.

I would be extremely surprised if the Zahau attorneys did not include the phone records in their case. Especially the fact Nina and Adam's phone records were not investigated. Did any of the 15 investigators or 4 agencies check Adam's claim to watching *advertiser censored* on his iPhone?

Rebecca's phone records-
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/zahau_cell.pdf

Search warrants-
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_11-164.pdf
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_11-165.pdf

 

[bourne]

Quote Originally Posted by BBL View Post
From Nina's response:
This answering Defendant is
informed and believes and thereon alleges that Rebecca Zahau thereafter climbed
over the balcony, placed the other slip knot end of the rope tied to the bed over her
head and also tied a light blue or turquoise colored long sleeve t-shirt over the rope
and around her neck, placing a portion of the shirt into her mouth (as indicated by
the Medical Examiner's Office finding dried secretions on the t-shirt) so that no one
would be alerted to her suicide and intervene to stop her self-intended death, and
thereafter slipped her hands into the pre-tied loose wrist binding and allowed herself
to fall off the edge of the balcony, hanging herself.

BBM - This struck me as I don't believe I had seen this before. So, I had to point it out and ask for opinions. Is Nina alleging that Rebecca actually climbed over the balcony rail and then inserted the rope over her head, her hands & feet, and then tied the shirt? Is this her answer to how Rebecca managed to only leave part of a footprint and not disturb the dust on the balcony? If so, this is patently ridiculous... that balcony has no place to stand once over the rail. And even if there was a small ledge, the ropes would have dragged and disturbed the dust. She would have had to hold on and she would have leaned back against the rail to do all this crazy last minute maneuvering.

So, did I just read this wrong?"

What I find striking and shocking is that Nina is so specific and detailed it sounds like her confession to murdering Rebecca.

I wonder *who* it was who "informed" Nina the defendant as that's how she starts her testimony here. Quite strange.

I just want to add that if what Nina says above is true, wow, that makes Rebecca's murder so much more debasing and disgusting than originally thought. Nina basically is saying the murderers forced Rebecca to climb over the balcony, then place noose over her own head and gag over her own mouth, and then placed *loose* wrist bindings on herself...But Nina didn't make mention of the ankle bindings. What would that be for? At which point in time is Rebecca alleged to have bind her own ankles, and what's the purpose? If she needed to climb over balcony, why would she bind her ankles? And if she's already over the balcony edge, why would she need to bind her ankles then? How would that help her to jump and hang herself? And like BBL said, why was the dust not disturbed more if she were climbing over the balcony? Why was her DNA/prints then not found on the railing? Why were there no prints on the balcony floor. Did she leap across the balcony floor from the door to make a single toe print at edge of balcony? Really?! All the while with four blows to her head? At which point did she give herself four blows? And why four? Nina's story is as convoluted and full of holes as Dina's theory that Rebecca and her teen sis assaulted and caused the homicide of Max.

Clearly, Nina's fabricated story is purposefully put out there in order to deflect from what really happened. Just like her rambling on about how she didn't touch the gate and was wearing new yoga pants and a Coach wristlet. What a repulsively arrogant immoral, lying, deceptive monster Nina is. Just disgusting.