Evidence That is Incompatible With an Accident Theory

[magic-cat]

Of course they kept questioning him about it because they knew it couldn't be true. I will look for the final interview where I believe he stated that he only lifted the bag and nothing fell out or rolled out.

Even if he only slightly "lifted the bag" and a portion of it was underneath the skull, it could easily have caused some movement of the skull which, if you are the one who finds such a thing, and it is a SMALL skull, likely a childs, it might just be a little unnerving. I know I would not wish to be the one to make that gruesome discovery...Poor man.

 

[notthatsmart]

It's all very simple really. The bags were in poor condition, NTS...they had been ravaged by time, water, winds, decomposing tissues and sadly animals. It could very well be that he barely picked up an edge of the bag and the skull "fell out", or so it seemed to him. This falling out process could have occurred a mere inch from the ground and still been described thus. As to the plants growing into and adhering in the hair...well there were tears and holes in the bags obviously, from the conditions I have described above. The skull and the hair mat could both have been "adhered to the ground" and still made a movement of falling when the bag which was under and apparently over them was disturbed. This falling process need not have been from a foot in the air...it could have happened immediately upon him tugging upwards on the bag.

This makes much more sense. It is not really stating that the skull was in the bag, but perhaps the bag was on top of the skull. I noted when the Le sent the bags to the Fbi, they asked the Fbi to try to determine that. Were the bones inside the bag, or somehow covered up or concealed by the bag?

I am not convinced at all that Caylee was ever in any bags. I would like to know because it has been reported on and on. I am not really sure it would matter at trial though. IMO

 

[RR0004]

This makes much more sense. It is not really stating that the skull was in the bag, but perhaps the bag was on top of the skull. I noted when the Le sent the bags to the Fbi, they asked the Fbi to try to determine that. Were the bones inside the bag, or somehow covered up or concealed by the bag?

I am not convinced at all that Caylee was ever in any bags. I would like to know because it has been reported on and on. I am not really sure it would matter at trial though. IMO

Well...one thing we know for sure...either way...the act of dumping a child out in the woods is depraved.

 

[Bittiness39]

smilie for you...

Let's hop off the merry go round folks, and get back to productive discussion.

Proper! And to the point. Either you believe KC did it or you don't...and if you don't please provide some kind of proof somewhere that shows that anyone other than her was with that child at her demise. But I digress, clearly it can't be done or it would have. I guess for some facing the facts of the case is too much for them. JMO.

Oh and to go with the thread...her mother never even reported her missing. That would be evidence which in my opinion (oh I am sorry KC was "ugly coping" while stealing money and groping breasts and dancing in clubs---she was searching for her child ya'll (she was so scared she just had had had to go to Target officer with stolen money and just had had had to spend it on basically herself). I would love if the state could actually stick a literal fork in her. She is done.

 

[notthatsmart]

Lets get back to topic. Very interesting conversation went a little off topic.

My opinion is that I do not believe it was an accident.

 

[magic-cat]

This makes much more sense. It is not really stating that the skull was in the bag, but perhaps the bag was on top of the skull. I noted when the Le sent the bags to the Fbi, they asked the Fbi to try to determine that. Were the bones inside the bag, or somehow covered up or concealed by the bag?

I am not convinced at all that Caylee was ever in any bags. I would like to know because it has been reported on and on. I am not really sure it would matter at trial though. IMO

Some of her bones were inside the bags. The bags were torn all to heck NTS...they were not whole comlete undamaged bags. Think of a bag that you put out at the curb and cats or dogs get in it overnight. In such a short time they can make a mess of a bag and these bags were there for months on end, under water and being constantly attacked by animals as they desecrated this babies remains. Many bones were strewn about outside the bags...and showed animals had gnawed on them...

 

[logicalgirl]

directly west of the north west area of the log, is no where near the east of the log is it? Wait a sec, lets try to be logical here. Was that quote taken out of context? Does it actually say black canvas bag?

Logic tells me that north west is not east. IMO

LOL it says both - I just looked back and it says black bag and white canvas bag.
I guess what I'm saying is picture the skull as X in the middle, then the log could very well be to the east and the bags to the north west couldn't they?

 

[magic-cat]

Lets get back to topic. Very interesting conversation went a little off topic.

My opinion is that I do not believe it was an accident.

Praise God from whom all blessings flow! lol

 

[logicalgirl]

This makes much more sense. It is not really stating that the skull was in the bag, but perhaps the bag was on top of the skull. I noted when the Le sent the bags to the Fbi, they asked the Fbi to try to determine that. Were the bones inside the bag, or somehow covered up or concealed by the bag?

I am not convinced at all that Caylee was ever in any bags. I would like to know because it has been reported on and on. I am not really sure it would matter at trial though. IMO

Hmm - wasn't there a fair amount of decomp found in the canvas bag? Will check that out.

 

[okiedokietoo]

I don't want anyone to get banned. We need everyone we have on here to Sleuth through this mess. Just a little patience and picking your debates - some you can win and others ..... never, no matter what .... patience

Oh and Evidence (intangible) that is incompatible with and accident theory -
Fact that Defense trying to convince me that their Client is innocent but will, basically, gladly sit in jail forever until trial And how the defense keeps going after different people as the real perpetrators, like they are just checking names off of a list And when the defense tries to twist the facts to fit their defense, just makes me look harder at the factual, tangible evidence

 

[magic-cat]

I don't want anyone to get banned. We need everyone we have on here to Sleuth through this mess. Just a little patience and picking your debates - some you can win and others ..... never, no matter what .... patience

Oh and Evidence (intangible) that is incompatible with and accident theory -
Fact that Defense trying to convince me that their Client is innocent but will, basically, gladly sit in jail forever until trial And how the defense keeps going after different people as the real perpetrators, like they are just checking names off of a list And when the defense tries to twist the facts to fit their defense, just makes me look harder at the factual, tangible evidence

The thing about the truth, and the facts, is they can stand up to examination and come out shining...because they are the truth. It is good to be mindful of this when we are debating these things...look for the truth and examine it and hold it to the flame, and it will come out shiny and new...because it is, after all, the truth...

 

[luvschiclets]

Hi all...I'm luvschiclets.:nluv:

So very glad to read and cyber meet all. I've come out of hiding/lurking.

I've been reading lots on this board. Thanks for your input, observations, links, info. etc...

Could someone refresh my memory regarding the autopsy results please?

Irrc, when I initially read the autopsy report nothing was found in the sweet babies lungs that would indicate an accidental drowning.

Presuming my recollection is correct; are you surmising that if the defense does decide to use the accidental theory, do you mean the chloroform? That KC used chlorform to make sweet Caylee go to sleep and gave her too much on that awful day? Could someone help me to understand how an accidental defense could be feasible? If this was already explained and posted, please accept my apology in advance.

Again, many thanks. I appreciate all of the informations and opinions that I have read here.

IMO to all of my posts...

 

[Cat13067]

I hope I understand what you are getting at in the original post after scanning through ... but to me the most damning evidence so far proving that the defense will not claim "accident" is that they have employed many high profile expert witnesses to testify against the forensic evidence found ... if it were an accident with subsequent cover-up ... the evidence would be the same! There would be no need to question the forensics ... because if Casey said ... "Oops, Caylee's death occurred by accident and I panicked" the forensic evidence found with the remains would be the same ... regardless!

Exactly! The forensic evidence would not change whether it was an accident or intentional. What is left leads me to believe Caylee was murdered by KC. There are many reasons like: why she didn't contact LE as soon as Caylee went missing? How could she go out partying when her child is missing? Why she got a tattoo with a missing star days after Caylee went missing? How she changed her story about ZFG? The Saw Grass apartments story. No job, so why would she need a nanny. The duct tape with the heart sticker. The heart stickers found at the A's house along with the laundry bag, plastic trash bags, baby blanket, and the pink tee shirt that CA said, she never owned. Chloroform searches on the computer. The odor of KC's car trunk etc. etc. etc.

I can't come up with one thing that would lead me to accepting Caylee's death was an accident when I look at all the evidence above.

 

[logicalgirl]

Hi all...I'm luvschiclets.:nluv:

So very glad to read and cyber meet all. I've come out of hiding/lurking.

I've been reading lots on this board. Thanks for your input, observations, links, info. etc...

Could someone refresh my memory regarding the autopsy results please?

Irrc, when I initially read the autopsy report nothing was found in the sweet babies lungs that would indicate an accidental drowning.

Presuming my recollection is correct; are you surmising that if the defense does decide to use the accidental theory, do you mean the chloroform? That KC used chlorform to make sweet Caylee go to sleep and gave her too much on that awful day? Could someone help me to understand how an accidental defense could be feasible? If this was already explained and posted, please accept my apology in advance.

Again, many thanks. I appreciate all of the informations and opinions that I have read here.

IMO to all of my posts...

I don't want to give you a bad shock but I'm not sure what autopsy report you read as there were no organs, or even skin (sorry) left on the skeletal remains when the body was found scattered over a large area of the property off Suburban. WS has huge files that can be read regarding evidence in immaculate detail.

I don't think you'll find anyone here who has surveyed the evidence who will say accidental death and even if those were the jury findings the penalty for felony manslaughter is the same as murder 1 so really it is a moot point.

 

[logicalgirl]

Exactly! The forensic evidence would not change whether it was an accident or intentional. What is left leads me to believe Caylee was murdered by KC. There are many reasons like: why she didn't contact LE as soon as Caylee went missing? How could she go out partying when her child is missing? Why she got a tattoo with a missing star days after Caylee went missing? How she changed her story about ZFG? The Saw Grass apartments story. No job, so why would she need a nanny. The duct tape with the heart sticker. The heart stickers found at the A's house along with the laundry bag, plastic trash bags, baby blanket, and the pink tee shirt that CA said, she never owned. Chloroform searches on the computer. The odor of KC's car trunk etc. etc. etc.

I can't come up with one thing that would lead me to accepting Caylee's death was an accident when I look at all the evidence above.

Yeah, I'm not asking for overwhelming evidence supporting accidental death, or even evidence at this point - I'd settle for just ONE FACT - I just want to see one before this whole subject of accidental death is put to rest.

 

[RR0004]

All I know...in Casey's own words (letters)...even she doesn't make it sound like it was an accident.

 

[christee]

Some of her bones were inside the bags. The bags were torn all to heck NTS...they were not whole comlete undamaged bags. Think of a bag that you put out at the curb and cats or dogs get in it overnight. In such a short time they can make a mess of a bag and these bags were there for months on end, under water and being constantly attacked by animals as they desecrated this babies remains. Many bones were strewn about outside the bags...and showed animals had gnawed on them...

From Dr Gs Autopsy report, from 2nd paragraph:

"A number of human bones were located mixed with the leaf debris from within the bags. In addition...two handbones were removed directly from the black bags."

This leaves no doubt in my mind Caylee was in the bags.
I didn't want to go OT but felt this was important info considering the present discussion.

*christee ducks to avoid raygun*

 

[logicalgirl]

From Dr Gs Autopsy report, from 2nd paragraph:

"A number of human bones were located mixed with the leaf debris from within the bags. In addition...two handbones were removed directly from the black bags."

This leaves no doubt in my mind Caylee was in the bags.
I didn't want to go OT but felt this was important info considering the present discussion.

*christee ducks to avoid raygun*

Yes, thank you for pulling that up.

*Raygun? Gulp I thought it was just shoes!

 

[christee]

Yes, thank you for pulling that up.

*Raygun? Gulp I thought it was just shoes!

(Kimster keeps that thing ready to fire at all times...:nerves

 

[Pondering Mind]

It's all very simple really. The bags were in poor condition, NTS...they had been ravaged by time, water, winds, decomposing tissues and sadly animals. It could very well be that he barely picked up an edge of the bag and the skull "fell out", or so it seemed to him. This falling out process could have occurred a mere inch from the ground and still been described thus. As to the plants growing into and adhering in the hair...well there were tears and holes in the bags obviously, from the conditions I have described above. The skull and the hair mat could both have been "adhered to the ground" and still made a movement of falling when the bag which was under and apparently over them was disturbed. This falling process need not have been from a foot in the air...it could have happened immediately upon him tugging upwards on the bag.

Not to mention, one must have never done any yard work to not know that roots can be very long and above ground. Dang, I can leave a bag of potting soil outside for a couple of months and roots manage to make their way right through the plastic. (with no help from any animals) Common sense is all it takes to figure that out!