Evidence

[Cher Lockhomes]

Zen, here is some information:

http://westmemphisthreediscussion.yuku.com/topic/980/Looking-for-some-answers-to-a-few-questions

Post #14 Bottom of page. redwolfvision is an excellent poster.

 

[zencompass]

Thanks Cher Lockhomes! This is very much appreciated!

 

[Compassionate Reader]

I have often wondered about the "three teenagers" described as one white and two black who were seen in the area. My only guess is that the wmpd (thanks to JD and SJ) already had a primary suspect in mind. Therefore, they conducted a theory (or suspect)-driven instead of an evidence-led investigation. I have never seen any follow up on these mysterious teenagers, either.

Like someone else stated, I believe that DwM lost sight of her brother and his friends because they were already in motion. She had to get her bike at least and gain momentum. So, the boys were already "out of sight" before she got to where they had been.

As is true of so much in this case, these three teens could have been important witnesses or possibly perpetrators. However, the wmpd never followed up. So, it's doubtful that we will ever know!

 

[zencompass]

I thought somehow that the shootings on Thursday May 6th of the two men was because they might have known something - one lived at 600 N 14th Street and maybe they were two of the three older boys Kim W. witnessed. On May 6th one of the young men had been shot in the head but the other young man survived - they were 17 and 18 years old. I had wondered whether the house on N 14th was the house that Kim W. saw them go into but 600 is much further down the other way on N 14th.

Compassionate Reader - I agree that the investigators never followed these leads because the investigation was "suspect driven". As you have stated before, this is just one example of the WMPD only trying to fit D.E. to this crime in any way they could while disregarding leads such as Kim W.'s and Dawn's statements. Such a tragedy. I wonder what Kim W. thinks about all of this these days. She knows that the information she gave the police was never followed up. I guess all of the witnesses know that now.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

You know my watchword:

PATIENCE!

 

[zencompass]

Thanks Compassionate Reader! I needed that!

It's just that I wish for all involved but most especially for the three poor little eight year-old boys that the investigation had taken a truer route towards justice. Sigh...

 

[thared33]

I can't figure out how to create a new thread (new member rule?) so I'll post this here.

Exactly how did the WM3 become implicated? What was the first link in the chain? I read on wikipedia that an officer suspected occult overtones of the murders so DE was suspected, but I believe JM was the first to be questioned... I think.

There's also the thing about some girls (at a ballgame?) overhearing DE bragging about it.

What was the evolution of this whole thing like?

 

[Cher Lockhomes]

thared33, here are three pages that tell the story in a compressed form, these pages give a lot of basic information about the case:

http://murderpedia.org/male.E/e/echols-damien.htm

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/memphis3/WestMemphis3Account.html

http://www.spenceforensics.com/westmemphisthree.html

 

[thared33]

Thanks Cher. It's been a few years so I've forgotten a lot. I used to post on the Black Board but it was shut down for reasons unknown. I remember seeing Compassionate Reader post there.

 

[Graznik]

CherLockholmes has already provided you with several links, but I thought I might as well add my two cents as well.

Steve Jones was the one who implicated Damien in the murders, and he ended up leading the "witch hunt" together with Jerry Driver. IMO, without Jones' statement there would have been precious little reason to think that Damien, Jason or Jessie would've had anything to do with. Take away the occult/satanic angle, and there's pretty much nothing that would lead a police investigation towards the WM3.

The soft ball girls... IMO, it was definitely a case of rumours spreading like wildfire. There's no way of knowing whether or not Damien ever made such a statement, because their recollection of it is extremely muddled up. However, if I was to draw on some personal experience, him making such a statement would've been some sort of defense mechanism. I don't know about the rest of you on this board, but if anyone of you has ever been the local "weirdo" you'll be very well aware of how much BS you get to put up with. Random people I never even knew used to come up to me at school and ask me if I worshiped the devil or was a satanist or whatever. And in the end it was just easier to go "Yes, I worship the devil, and do all sorts of nasty s**t" just to get them the ****** out of your way. Now, the situation we're talking about here is obviously much more serious, and whatever your opinions may be on this case I think that's something we can agree on - we're all still here to see justice served for the victims. All I am trying to say here is that if he made such a statement, it might well have been to get a bunch of stupid twelve year old girls who were hounding him out of the way. Either way, it's not something I put any kind of stock in to. And no, that's not me making any excuses, I'm just using common sense and personal experience of being the only goth in the village (Little Britain pun intended).

 

[thared33]

Is Steve Jones the juvenile probation officer? The one who said, "it looks like DE finally killed someone"? I noticed that when I read those pages, so that's probably where it all started.

 

[Graznik]

Is Steve Jones the juvenile probation officer? The one who said, "it looks like DE finally killed someone"? I noticed that when I read those pages, so that's probably where it all started.

Yes, that would be him. And yeah, that was pretty much where it all started.

 

[Userid]

I think it's important to note that, although the automatic response is to assume "it all begun when Steve Jones said 'looks like DE finally killed someone' at the murder site," there was actually a thorough investigation into many other suspects. Granted, Jones did say that, but I think it was a lead that needed to be investigated, was, and (particularly with JM's "confession") eventually sealed the deal. I don't believe that Jones wanted to railroad DE from the start. It was an inappropriate thing to say and should have never been said, granted, but I don't believe in this grand conspiracy that DE was set up from, quite literally, the word "go." Also, I don't blame the WMPD for investigating the lead; and I don't feel like they went out of their way to investigate said lead because, there were many false leads that they did chase. Just my opinion.

 

[Graznik]

The way Jones and Driver harassed Damien was unethical, and their obsession with satanic cults is outright ridiculous. As to whether or not Jones WANTED to railroad Damien, well, we'll never know. What we do know is that he instigated what would be a full blown railroading - intent or not.

The WMPD looked in to other suspects, sure, but a lot of them were dismissed much too easily (e.g. JKM, who, btw, makes a much better suspect than any of the WM3), and others, who should've been investigated, weren't looked in to at all. I can't blame them for investigating Damien after Jones' statement. However, if they would've been half sensible they would've realised there was nothing there. Instead they chose to run with the whole satanic angle. Now, as with Jones, there's no way for us to know the intent of the WMPD when they did so.

If you remove Jones, and the satanic angle he and Driver instigated, then there really isn't much that would lead to the WM3. A lot of the stuff people like to reference regarding whether or not Damien (and it's almost always Damien) was ever a good suspect stem from the satanic stuff.

 

[Cher Lockhomes]

Thanks Cher. It's been a few years so I've forgotten a lot. I used to post on the Black Board but it was shut down for reasons unknown. I remember seeing Compassionate Reader post there.

thared33, I thought your name rang a bell. I probably came across it while I was scrounging the many old boards. I would be very interested to know why you are looking into the case again, just my curiosity, don't feel obliged to answer. CR is still around, and a much treasured fighter for justice.

Graznik, your experience is not an exception. I was also one of the people who wore "different clothes", talked strangely, listened to strange music, had unusual ideals, long hair, had a disturbed social background, did not smile when I was being messed around, and as a rule, looking at DE, became a potential serial killer. On the other hand, the most honourable man in the village turns out to be a notorious paedophile, post-mortem of course. It's just as well we've moved on. At least social prejudice is not as widespread as it used to be, at least not of the blatant kind, more behind a raised hand.

DE would have been a minor suspect as almost all males in the WM area, after suspects #1, THE PARENTS, suspects #2, THE RELATIVES, suspects #3, PEOPLE WHO KNEW THE BOYS, this would have included Driver and Jones, suspects #4, EX-CONS AND SEX OFFENDERS. The wmpd certainly went out their way to make a mess of it.

 

[Userid]

The way Jones and Driver harassed Damien was unethical, and their obsession with satanic cults is outright ridiculous. As to whether or not Jones WANTED to railroad Damien, well, we'll never know. What we do know is that he instigated what would be a full blown railroading - intent or not.

The WMPD looked in to other suspects, sure, but a lot of them were dismissed much too easily (e.g. JKM, who, btw, makes a much better suspect than any of the WM3), and others, who should've been investigated, weren't looked in to at all. I can't blame them for investigating Damien after Jones' statement. However, if they would've been half sensible they would've realised there was nothing there. Instead they chose to run with the whole satanic angle. Now, as with Jones, there's no way for us to know the intent of the WMPD when they did so.

If you remove Jones, and the satanic angle he and Driver instigated, then there really isn't much that would lead to the WM3. A lot of the stuff people like to reference regarding whether or not Damien (and it's almost always Damien) was ever a good suspect stem from the satanic stuff.

All due respect, but we don't know how "easily" any suspect was dismissed. JKM was thoroughly investigated and, if memory serves, had an alibi that held up.

I think it's important to note that, Jones and Driver led the police to DE -- granted -- but not JM. The police had talked to DE and JB (after Driver/Jones had suggested them as suspects), but were not arrested until after the confession(s) of Jessie -- as were a plethora of other supposed "satanists." Until Jessie, DE was no better than LGH or any of the other multiple "satanists" (and there were many others named than just the WM3). The confession broke the camel's back, much more so than Jones or Driver.

I don't believe that the WM3 were "railroaded." I think they were charged because the WMPD was desperate to pin this on someone. They had no real leads at the time, so they ran with what they could. I can agree that it was unethical on the WMPD's part, and unethical for the juvenile officers to single out DE, but I can't believe that there was a master plot conceived by Jones and Driver to deliberately railroad any of the WM3. Jones and Driver were misguided in suggesting DE, but it's also quite possible that they were simply trying to help the investigation. According to Driver, he was approached by the WMPD; he himself didn't approach them.

 

[Userid]

thared33, I thought your name rang a bell. I probably came across it while I was scrounging the many old boards. I would be very interested to know why you are looking into the case again, just my curiosity, don't feel obliged to answer. CR is still around, and a much treasured fighter for justice.

Graznik, your experience is not an exception. I was also one of the people who wore "different clothes", talked strangely, listened to strange music, had unusual ideals, long hair, had a disturbed social background, did not smile when I was being messed around, and as a rule, looking at DE, became a potential serial killer. On the other hand, the most honourable man in the village turns out to be a notorious paedophile, post-mortem of course. It's just as well we've moved on. At least social prejudice is not as widespread as it used to be, at least not of the blatant kind, more behind a raised hand.

DE would have been a minor suspect as almost all males in the WM area, after suspects #1, THE PARENTS, suspects #2, THE RELATIVES, suspects #3, PEOPLE WHO KNEW THE BOYS, this would have included Driver and Jones, suspects #4, EX-CONS AND SEX OFFENDERS. The wmpd certainly went out their way to make a mess of it.

Driver and Jones knew the 3 victims? How well and how so?

As I said, I think Jessie's confession -- whether coerced or not -- most likely forced the WMPD's hand. That's not to say that it isn't a shame or that the WMPD were right; I am simply saying, it forced their hand.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Without the statement from SJ, I'm not so sure that DE would have been a suspect. The reason that the wmpd brought JM in for questioning was because VH said that JM knew DE, IIRC. That's where it began. VH was in the station with her son trying to straighten out her own legal tangle. IIRC, VH was in the station around the time the boy's bodies were discovered. She knew that her son was friends with the murdered boys. IMO (and it's just my opinion), she saw a way to unwind her own personal tangle. Of course, if the wmpd had conducted an evidence-led rather than suspect-driven investigation, we might not have had the cluster****** that we have in this case!

Again, IMO, DE, JB and JM were "railroaded" because of the pressure on the police to solve the case. Remember, it had been almost a month since the murders with no arrest. Of course, due to SJ's statement, DE and JB were suspected (and questioned) early on, but there was no evidence against them until JM was coerced, or brow beaten, into his pitiful statement. Then, after the "clarification" required by Judge Rainey, the police arrested DE and JB based on what most people believe to be a false and coerced statement.

Welcome, thared33! Oh how I miss the information we lost on the BB!

 

[thared33]

Thanks CR.

Cher, I've been snooping here without an account ever since the Black Board shut down actually. I never lost interest, just took some breaks

The reason I'm still around is because I'm still undecided. The case can go in any direction and always could have. I'd like to think there's a smoking gun out there but at this point we'll probably never know. It drives me up a wall!

There's not much on DE. I saw PL1 circa 1995 and to this day I still have piercings, wear black, listen to wild music, and from time to time, I still make awfully incriminating remarks when I know I shouldn't :laughing:

There's basically nothing on JB.

JM though.... ohhh boy. I don't mean the first confession, I mean the police car one with Stidham present for the taped portion. I'm not saying I believe it, but I just can't fathom... WHY? Did he confess for a cheeseburger sammich?

Other than the weird JM confessions there's nothing on them. I'm still hoping for a breakthrough someday

 

[Graznik]

<snipped>
Graznik, your experience is not an exception. I was also one of the people who wore "different clothes", talked strangely, listened to strange music, had unusual ideals, long hair, had a disturbed social background, did not smile when I was being messed around, and as a rule, looking at DE, became a potential serial killer. On the other hand, the most honourable man in the village turns out to be a notorious paedophile, post-mortem of course. It's just as well we've moved on. At least social prejudice is not as widespread as it used to be, at least not of the blatant kind, more behind a raised hand.

DE would have been a minor suspect as almost all males in the WM area, after suspects #1, THE PARENTS, suspects #2, THE RELATIVES, suspects #3, PEOPLE WHO KNEW THE BOYS, this would have included Driver and Jones, suspects #4, EX-CONS AND SEX OFFENDERS. The wmpd certainly went out their way to make a mess of it.

It's actually really great to hear I'm not the only one here who's been the local freak. Sometimes I think that aspect is lost, or not given enough significance, when people discuss certains statements by, or rumours about, Damien. Or a little more to the point: people just don't get why anyone would say something like that because they've never been in that position themselves.

As to the second paragraph quoted, I completely agree.

All due respect, but we don't know how "easily" any suspect was dismissed. JKM was thoroughly investigated and, if memory serves, had an alibi that held up.

<snipped, as CR provided an excellent answer>

I don't believe that the WM3 were "railroaded." I think they were charged because the WMPD was desperate to pin this on someone. They had no real leads at the time, so they ran with what they could. I can agree that it was unethical on the WMPD's part, and unethical for the juvenile officers to single out DE, but I can't believe that there was a master plot conceived by Jones and Driver to deliberately railroad any of the WM3. Jones and Driver were misguided in suggesting DE, but it's also quite possible that they were simply trying to help the investigation. According to Driver, he was approached by the WMPD; he himself didn't approach them.

No, but judging by the sources available to us, JKM was let of the hook WAY to easy IMO. IIRC, his alibi didn't actually quite hold up. Him, his wife, and his "girlfriend" made some conflicting statements IIRC, and we're not talking about slightly muddled up timelines.

See, I am definitely not saying there was some sort of "master plot" or conspiracy. Sure, some aspects of this case can make you wonder, because the sheer amount of stupid and lack of logic can really be baffling. It's just unfathomable, to me, that the whole satanic thing presented by Jones and Driver wasn't nipped in the bud by someone at some point.

Without the statement from SJ, I'm not so sure that DE would have been a suspect. The reason that the wmpd brought JM in for questioning was because VH said that JM knew DE, IIRC. That's where it began. VH was in the station with her son trying to straighten out her own legal tangle. IIRC, VH was in the station around the time the boy's bodies were discovered. She knew that her son was friends with the murdered boys. IMO (and it's just my opinion), she saw a way to unwind her own personal tangle. Of course, if the wmpd had conducted an evidence-led rather than suspect-driven investigation, we might not have had the cluster****** that we have in this case!

Again, IMO, DE, JB and JM were "railroaded" because of the pressure on the police to solve the case. Remember, it had been almost a month since the murders with no arrest. Of course, due to SJ's statement, DE and JB were suspected (and questioned) early on, but there was no evidence against them until JM was coerced, or brow beaten, into his pitiful statement. Then, after the "clarification" required by Judge Rainey, the police arrested DE and JB based on what most people believe to be a false and coerced statement.

Welcome, thared33! Oh how I miss the information we lost on the BB!

Well said, CR! I completely agree.

Thanks CR.

Cher, I've been snooping here without an account ever since the Black Board shut down actually. I never lost interest, just took some breaks

The reason I'm still around is because I'm still undecided. The case can go in any direction and always could have. I'd like to think there's a smoking gun out there but at this point we'll probably never know. It drives me up a wall!

There's not much on DE. I saw PL1 circa 1995 and to this day I still have piercings, wear black, listen to wild music, and from time to time, I still make awfully incriminating remarks when I know I shouldn't :laughing:

There's basically nothing on JB.

JM though.... ohhh boy. I don't mean the first confession, I mean the police car one with Stidham present for the taped portion. I'm not saying I believe it, but I just can't fathom... WHY? Did he confess for a cheeseburger sammich?

Other than the weird JM confessions there's nothing on them. I'm still hoping for a breakthrough someday

I hear ya, thared33. Both about the hopes of a smoking gun out there, and about still being the weird one haha.

And yeah, JM's confessions, as false and coerced as they were, are just mind boggling.