Evidence

[JBean]

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[tweety933]

Right now... without knowledge of fingerprints on the tape or anything else from the remains... what physical evidence can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was KC's doing? Nothing circumstantial, please.

Caylee's decomposed hair in Casey's car trunk!

 

[JBean]

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[jeepgirlva]

Seems telling that KC hid out from her parents and Lee who she knew would question her about Caylee.

No valid phone# or address for the nanny or her the nannie's ,mother ,stepfather sister nieces (did these people just disappear into thin air)

not one picture of the nanny (we all know KC is a camera buff)

Jeff Hopkins does not know the nanny or have a son

 

[tweety933]

Physical evidence being the decomposing hair in Casey's car.

 

[MissJames]

Physical evidence being the decomposing hair in Casey's car, the fingerprint on the duct tape.

What fingerprint on the duct tape?

 

[Devon]

There were NO fingerprints found on the duct tape:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3903832&postcount=34"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Myth Busters and Facts NO DISCUSSION NO DISCUSSION[/ame]

 

[jcamille]

The car does contain alot of very incriminating evidence, but the problem with the car is "chain of custody."

The car was not in KC's possession up until it was seized by the police. It was out of her possession from June 27 - July 15. The defense will argue - although be it a weak arguement - that someone else had the opportunity to "plant" the evidence (the body) in the trunk.

I know it's far-fetched, but it's their only shot for trying to mitigate the damage that the trunk evidence will do to KC when it's introduced.

I also think they will argue against allowing the trunk evidence to even be heard by a jury because of the "junk science" and the "chain of custody" issues.

Maybe one of our very astute lawyers on here can tell us how successful they may be in getting the trunk evidence excluded.

 

[I Din Doot]

There were no LATENT prints. There is an interesting read on the "Fingerprints and gloves" thread in the PL about other types of prints.Posted by Georgia PI and others. I'm waiting for the bombshell and still holding onto hope for a fingerprint/fiber match on the tape that directly links KC to the application of the tape.

 

[Jolynna]

Wadded-up paper toweling harboring fly pupae full of a substance consistent with pig or human decomposition (that was deemed by the report to be what attracted the flies) found in KC's car trunk inside of a trash bag from Tony's apartment.

The laundry bag from the Anthony house Caylee's body was found in.

The heart sticker.

The triple layer of duct tape wrapped tight around Caylee's mouth and nose with heart shaped adhesive glue over where Caylee's mouth would be.

Caylee's blanket in the trash bags with Caylee's body.

The mama doll and the car seat left behind in KC's car because KC knew she wouldn't need either of them ever again.

The text to Amy talking about the "getting rid of the smell from the 'animal' that was plastered all over KC's car".

 

[butwhatif?]

To rephrase Imackon's excellent analysis:

1. Multiple witnesses have given statements regarding the odor, including trained LE officers.

2. KC's text messages acknowledge a smell of death; she tried to give a reasonable explanation of a dead squirrel but the evidence shows no sign of a squirrel or other animal. With her overall lack of credibility and it being only her text that indicates a squirrel rather than a human body...

3. Multiple trained cadaver dogs from different sources hit on the trunk.

4. Hair from deceased Anthony family member (mitochondrial DNA) found in trunk.

5. GA and CA statements regarding the smell, including GA I believe under oath.

6. Air sample tests from Body Farm indicating 2.6 days-ish human decompositional event.

7. Evidence of clean up in the car; coverup -- if trying to "frame" KC, why clean up?

8. Papertowels in trunk contained decomp from Caylee.

I don't need #6 to be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that there was a dead body in the trunk of the Pontiac. I accept it and would rely on #6 if I was on the jury, but I don't need it, kwim?

So whose dead body was it? From the hair, we can conclude it was an Anthony family member. From the total circumstance, it being in KC's possession; she being the last seen w/Caylee; Caylee being the only known Anthony family member to die around the time frame of the smell, etc., I think it's reasonable to conclude it was Caylee; absent a showing from the defense that it was someone else's dead body and that would open a big can of worms, wouldn't it? lol I highly doubt the defense will try to use the SODDIT defense --- (Some Other Dude Died In Trunk) because I don't see it getting them anywhere other than another charge to KC, lol. (joking)

So, are we convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that:

a. there was a dead body in the Pontiac?

b. the body was Caylee's?

(This is an essay quiz, please explain your answers!!)

ETA: Thanks Jolynna, MissJames

BBM-
Number 8 is incorrect.The report says that something like adipocere was found on the paper towels, not that it was definately adipocere (aka gravewax).
There is nothing defintive that proves caylees decomp was on the paper towels, its just a conclusion that we all jumped to when we read the word adipocere and discovered it was associated with decomp.
It could have been any number of things on the paper towel, from soap, to make up etc.
(I'm going to add this in the myths thread).
PS: Its possible that it is caylees decomp, and is actually adipocere, but until they prove it, rather than saying it was 'like' adipocere, it should be taken with a grain of salt.
JMO

 

[tweety933]

The fact that the duct tape found on Caylee's mouth and nose matches the duct tape found on the gas can from Casey's house. Q64 and Q66 originated from the same source roll, as reported by the FBI.

 

[tweety933]

The duct tape from Caylee's mouth and nose Q62-64 is from the same source roll as the tape found on the gas can from the family home Q66. FBI reported....as well as that the hairs from the hair mass and the hair from the car trunk came from the same source, being Caylee Anthony.

 

[tweety933]

Pooh blanket that was missing from the family home, what kidnapper would dispose of a corpse and make sure to include the "blankie"?

 

[Tuba]

As the great Olympians on Mt. Parnassus used to tell me, there are myths and then there are MYTHS. In order to bust certain myths, a mace or wrecking ball will serve. For other myths, a nuclear device will be needed.

I come down on the side of californiared as to the latent fingerprint report. Lab#081213001 received specimens on December 13, 2008, which had been sent to lab on December 12. On December 15, this lab reported that specimens Q62-Q64, which were "items from the residence" had been examined so as to eliminate them as identified to K1 0, George A. Anthony; K1 1 Cynthia M. Anthony; K1 2 Lee A. Anthony. No latent prints were found.

No matter how you define that none, the fact remains that these were tape samples or specimens from the residence. You will recall that once the body was found on December 11, forensic teams massed at the house on Hopespring, extracting evidentiary items.

 

[lin]

BBM-
Number 8 is incorrect.The report says that something like adipocere was found on the paper towels, not that it was definately adipocere (aka gravewax).
There is nothing defintive that proves caylees decomp was on the paper towels, its just a conclusion that we all jumped to when we read the word adipocere and discovered it was associated with decomp.
It could have been any number of things on the paper towel, from soap, to make up etc.
(I'm going to add this in the myths thread).
PS: Its possible that it is caylees decomp, and is actually adipocere, but until they prove it, rather than saying it was 'like' adipocere, it should be taken with a grain of salt.
JMO

It's things like this that make me question how this thread can work without discussion. Mods? Can we merge somewhere so that we can discuss? TIA

ETA: From OP - "What we're looking for here are facts to add to lists and discussion of those facts to make sure they should be on a list of facts. " And the not long after "ETA: I'm trying to keep the lists themselves as close to bullet points as possible. This isn't meant to discourage more lengthy discussion of the items on the list(s) themselves."

It didn't occur to me to try to do this without discussion.

 

[lin]

The duct tape from Caylee's mouth and nose Q62-64 is from the same source roll as the tape found on the gas can from the family home Q66. FBI reported....as well as that the hairs from the hair mass and the hair from the car trunk came from the same source, being Caylee Anthony.

That's a good start for a physical evidence list.

 

[trafficsUP66]

I agree that it's definitely worth discussing, but physical evidence IS circumstantial evidence too.

Direct evidence is, any evidence presented that doesn't ask one to draw inferences about that particular piece of evidence. This would include, but is not limited to:

1. Eyewitness of the crime itself being committed. Seeing Johnny flee the scene without seeing Johnny actually committing the crime is circumstantial. You would need to see, hear, smell, taste, feel, etc... the actual crime being committed.
2. A videotape of Johnny actually committing the crime.
3. A confession from Johnny saying he committed the crime. Though in reality, confessions aren't fool proof either.

Other evidences, including, DNA, fingerprints, semen, saliva, blood, hair, skin cells, witnesses seeing Johnny flee, behavioral evidences, doctor's testimony, character witnesses, etc.... ALL make up a circumstantial evidence case.

That's because, semen doesn't mean you killed someone (you could have been seeing this person), but combined with statements of, I have never seen her before in my life, really can make that evidence much more powerful.

Fingerprints in blood in and of themselves, don't mean you killed anyone either. What if you happened upon the scene, tried to help, then fled for fear that you'd be implicated? Combined with, I was not at that crime scene, and it's much more damning.

I just HATE when I see someone on TV say, this is ONLY a CE case. Nothing said could be a more asinine statement, IMO. CE is actually preferred in a court of law, as eyewitness testimony has historically proven to be the most unreliable evidence in existence (and we don't get many recorded for our viewing pleasure).

Yes. And circumstances never "lie". Don't make false identifications, which is the very reason for the growing numbers of person's being freed from wrongful convictions! And, this is being done through the use of CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE--that being DNA!

Circumstances are what they are, they can't be changed or altered not even by a dream defense team, because they cannot change all that has been said and done by this defendant. The physical evidence is a nice neat bow to finish up the entire package and put CMA where she belongs. For the rest of her life.

 

[JBean]

sure I can merge it. i thought you wanted a reference thread. We have a lot of discussion threads. Sorry.

 

[JBean]

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