Family battling Children’s Hospital to bring teen home for Christmas #2

[sweetmom]

FWIW, my understanding of doctor shopping vs. second opinions is this:

If you get medical advice from your primary physician that requires some sort of risky or serious procedure, it is wise to see at least one more doc to get confirmation of the diagnosis or proposed treatment. If the two doctors disagree, then it would be wise to see a third. That is just being prudent.

BUT if you get the same diagnosis/prognosis/treatment plan from two or three or six or a dozen doctors, but you do not wish to comply and keep seeking out new opinions in the hopes of finding one that you accept -- even when it seems obvious to anyone else that all the previous opinions are in sync and correct -- then you are doctor shopping. And that is just being stubborn and possibly risking a very bad outcome.

Also, you cannot tell from photos or videos how many people have attended an event. It's hard to tell even if you were there. I know that for major events in Washington, the park police will not even issue estimates.

 

[Linda7NJ]

FWIW, my understanding of doctor shopping vs. second opinions is this:



If you get medical advice from your primary physician that requires some sort of risky or serious procedure, it is wise to see at least one more doc to get confirmation of the diagnosis or proposed treatment. If the two doctors disagree, then it would be wise to see a third. That is just being prudent.



BUT if you get the same diagnosis/prognosis/treatment plan from two or three or six or a dozen doctors, but you do not wish to comply and keep seeking out new opinions in the hopes of finding one that you accept -- even when it seems obvious to anyone else that all the previous opinions are in sync and correct -- then you are doctor shopping. And that is just being stubborn and possibly risking a very bad outcome.



Also, you cannot tell from photos or videos how many people have attended an event. It's hard to tell even if you were there. I know that for major events in Washington, the park police will not even issue estimates.

There are often more than one event going on at the same time. IMO


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[jjenny]

FWIW, my understanding of doctor shopping vs. second opinions is this:

If you get medical advice from your primary physician that requires some sort of risky or serious procedure, it is wise to see at least one more doc to get confirmation of the diagnosis or proposed treatment. If the two doctors disagree, then it would be wise to see a third. That is just being prudent.

BUT if you get the same diagnosis/prognosis/treatment plan from two or three or six or a dozen doctors, but you do not wish to comply and keep seeking out new opinions in the hopes of finding one that you accept -- even when it seems obvious to anyone else that all the previous opinions are in sync and correct -- then you are doctor shopping. And that is just being stubborn and possibly risking a very bad outcome.

Also, you cannot tell from photos or videos how many people have attended an event. It's hard to tell even if you were there. I know that for major events in Washington, the park police will not even issue estimates.

Well, using your logic, Pelletiers didn't have the same diagnosis from multiple doctors. BCH doctor claimed it was somatoform, contrary to mitochondrial disease diagnosis Justina got from Tufts. Despite that, BCH forbade the parents from seeking another opinion.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Well, using your logic, Pelletiers didn't have the same diagnosis from multiple doctors. BCH doctor claimed it was somatoform, contrary to mitochondrial disease diagnosis Justina got from Tufts. Despite that, BCH forbade the parents from seeking another opinion.

You honestly don't know what "doctor shopping" is?

Doctor shopping or double doctoring refers to the practice of a patient requesting care from multiple physicians, often simultaneously, without making efforts to coordinate care or informing the physicians of the multiple caregivers.

Here's four links ...HTH

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3552465/

http://psychiatry.stanford.edu/Psychosomatic/Maldonado'02-Factitious DO by Proxy -JACFP.pdf

http://woodnicklawchildcustody.word...ding-a-parent-accused-of-munchausen-by-proxy/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1511135/

What does Munchausen by proxy (to another, typically their child) look like:

Child hospitalized or seen by medical providers of unusual and unexplained symptoms
Those symptoms seem to only be present when the caregiver is around
Symptoms do not comport with anticipated test results
Symptomology seems to worsen with parent and improve while the child is hospitalized or under supervised medical care
In dramatic instances there are chemicals in a patient’s system
The parent works in the healthcare field often with Extensive understanding of medical terminology.
Parent is eager to have medical testing and procedures performed on the child
The parent goes doctor and hospital “shopping” for care and opinions

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[Morag]

You honestly don't know what "doctor shopping" is?

Doctor shopping or double doctoring refers to the practice of a patient requesting care from multiple physicians, often simultaneously, without making efforts to coordinate care or informing the physicians of the multiple caregivers.

Here's four links ...HTH

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3552465/

http://psychiatry.stanford.edu/Psychosomatic/Maldonado'02-Factitious DO by Proxy -JACFP.pdf

http://woodnicklawchildcustody.word...ding-a-parent-accused-of-munchausen-by-proxy/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1511135/

What does Munchausen by proxy (to another, typically their child) look like:

Child hospitalized or seen by medical providers of unusual and unexplained symptoms
Those symptoms seem to only be present when the caregiver is around
Symptoms do not comport with anticipated test results
Symptomology seems to worsen with parent and improve while the child is hospitalized or under supervised medical care
In dramatic instances there are chemicals in a patient’s system
The parent works in the healthcare field often with Extensive understanding of medical terminology.
Parent is eager to have medical testing and procedures performed on the child
The parent goes doctor and hospital “shopping” for care and opinions

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BBM
And didn't various doctors in Connecticut report their suspicions of the Pelletiers behaving in just this fashion?

The people who have seen some/all of the medical records (DCF, judge, some docs) seem to believe that this is exactly what has happened to Justina. And that is why her parents lost custody to the state. Not because the state is a big meany who wants to experiment on this child who has already IMO been experimented on. Not because the doctors or hospitals are eager to make big money caring for this child. Not because the judge is in cahoots with anyone.

No one other than the Pelletiers and some total strangers to them have spoken up in favor of the family. Not their neighbors. Not their friends. Not other parents from Justina's school. Not Justina's teachers.

Apparently Justina has been in therapy for a number of years. It's very sad when a pre-teen needs psychological help. I think perhaps her mental issues are a lot more complex than we may have been led to believe. Even though West Hartford is a wealthy town, they would not have agreed to her expensive 'out of district' placement in a special school unless they (the school system) believed her to be very ill in one way or another. Most kids in Connecticut are mainstreamed regardless of their issues; very very few disturbed or otherwise ill kids are sent to a private school at the district's expense.
I believe that Justina will be, and should be returned to her family eventually. I also believe that the family should be monitored by social services. And no doubt any health care officials will be extremely wary in their dealings with this family.

 

[jjenny]

It's simply not true that nobody but the strangers spoke in favor of the family.

 

[Linda7NJ]

It's simply not true that nobody but the strangers spoke in favor of the family.

Link please


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[sweetmom]

It's simply not true that nobody but the strangers spoke in favor of the family.

Because I live in the same town, I have been following this case closely. I can tell you that very very few WH residents have publically supported the family, either in rallies or letters to editors or comments on stories. There may be some supporters using screen names, but almost no one willing to use their real names.
Then there is this, posted by the town online:

Notice of Public Auction

Case Caption: HOMEOWNERS FINANCE v. PELLETIER, LINDA, D Et Al File Date: 02/04/2008
Docket Number: HHD-CV08-5017032-S Return Date: 02/19/2008

TOWN: West Hartford
SALE DATE: Apr 05, 2014
SALE TIME: 12:00 PM
INSPECTION COMMENCING AT: 10:00 AM
NOTICE RUNS FROM Mar 06, 2014 THROUGH Apr 06, 2014

PUBLIC AUCTION
FORECLOSURE SALE: Residential
ADDRESS: 31 Birch Hill Drive, West Hartford, CT

Pursuant to a judgment of the Superior Court for the Judicial District of Hartford in HOMEOWNERS FINANCE v. PELLETIER, LINDA, D Et Al Docket No. HHD-CV08-5017032-S the property named above will be sold, subject to court approval, at public auction on Saturday, April 05, 2014 at 12:00 PM on the premises.


I have not seen a newer post that says what happened. Still searching. But I have seen older town notices suggesting the home has been in and out of foreclosure for 5 years or more. Since the town pays for Justina's private school and the state of MA pays her current medical bills, I don't think Justina's health problems explain their financial woes.

There are many disturbing layers to this story.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Because I live in the same town, I have been following this case closely. I can tell you that very very few WH residents have publically supported the family, either in rallies or letters to editors or comments on stories. There may be some supporters using screen names, but almost no one willing to use their real names.

Then there is this, posted by the town online:



Notice of Public Auction



Case Caption: HOMEOWNERS FINANCE v. PELLETIER, LINDA, D Et Al File Date: 02/04/2008

Docket Number: HHD-CV08-5017032-S Return Date: 02/19/2008



TOWN: West Hartford

SALE DATE: Apr 05, 2014

SALE TIME: 12:00 PM

INSPECTION COMMENCING AT: 10:00 AM

NOTICE RUNS FROM Mar 06, 2014 THROUGH Apr 06, 2014



PUBLIC AUCTION

FORECLOSURE SALE: Residential

ADDRESS: 31 Birch Hill Drive, West Hartford, CT



Pursuant to a judgment of the Superior Court for the Judicial District of Hartford in HOMEOWNERS FINANCE v. PELLETIER, LINDA, D Et Al Docket No. HHD-CV08-5017032-S the property named above will be sold, subject to court approval, at public auction on Saturday, April 05, 2014 at 12:00 PM on the premises.





I have not seen a newer post that says what happened. Still searching. But I have seen older town notices suggesting the home has been in and out of foreclosure for 5 years or more. Since the town pays for Justina's private school and the state of MA pays her current medical bills, I don't think Justina's health problems explain their financial woes.



There are many disturbing layers to this story.

Is like to see a full accounting of what has been done with the donations they've collected to date.

Gullible & generous people have opened their wallets to be completely taken advantage of since the beginning of time.


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[Linda7NJ]

Deleted, link not permitted here

 

[sweetmom]

Is like to see a full accounting of what has been done with the donations they've collected to date.

Gullible & generous people have opened their wallets to be completely taken advantage of since the beginning of time.


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Thanks for stating exactly what I fear is true, Linda7NJ. A lot of the right-wing websites, such as Liberty Voice, claim some "anonymous billionaire" is paying the Pelletiers' legal bills. But apparently he doesn't do real estate bills.... IF such a person actually exists.

one such posting from LV on Feb. 28 says:

"An anonymous billionaire has stepped forward to fund a campaign to free Justina Pelletier, the young American teenager at the heart of a dramatic custody battle between her parents and Massachusetts hospital authorities. While he will be footing the bill for new lawyers set to fight for Justina to be returned to the care of her parents, campaigners are planning a weekend rally and prayer vigil outside the facility where Justina is being held...."

 

[Linda7NJ]

So there is an anonymous billionaire footing the bill and they're still asking for donations?

What for?????


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[Snoopster]

I scanned through this thread but found little coverage by any credible media. I recognize that I don't know what is really going on but I sure hope that the parents aren't 'abusing' the situation.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if this young girl could have a straight forward life. Having health problems is tough enough at that age.

Hoping for the best outcome, whatever that might be!

 

[CathyinTexas]

The only thing obvious to me is that Lou loves media attention and has political aspirations. The platform he's chosen to stand on...is his own daughter. That's his priority. Not getting Justina home, where he claims she belongs.
He alone is the obstacle preventing reunification.
IMO

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I admire Lou for standing his ground. The only reason he should have silently and reverently complied to the "plan" by they DCF and court is if he was guilty of child neglect. He was not. The stance he has taken is the right one in my opinion.

 

[Donjeta]

Right for whom? His ego or for Justina? Apparently her release from the psychiatric wing was delayed for several months because of Lou's belligerence. Had she been transferred to the Connecticut facility in June last year like the plan was and if the parents cooperated with family therapy and visits etc. she could already have been home for a while.

Instead they hold rallies.

 

[CathyinTexas]

I'd be willing to bet that most of the time Lou has no way of knowing those parents who contacted him are telling him the whole truth and nothing but the truth and that there was no justified reason for their children being taken.

Lots of people who had their children taken away for abuse or neglect complain loudly.

I think there are many children who are removed who shouldn't have been and there are also as many who should have been who weren't and things ended badly. Also, this type of case should not be equated with typical case of abuse in the home.

 

[Donjeta]

I think there are many children who are removed who shouldn't have been and there are also as many who should have been who weren't and things ended badly. Also, this type of case should not be equated with typical case of abuse in the home.

No doubt there are wrong decisions being made but just because people called Lou and were mad about whatever happened to them doesn't mean that the decisions were wrong in their cases.

Lou will end up staunchly defending a large number of abusers and bad parents if he believes all the sob stories imo.

 

[CathyinTexas]

If he plans to start locally, he will have to move somewhere else. I live in the same town and can tell you that it is solidly Democratic/Progressive, with a long history of rejecting extremist views. Even the Republicans on our town council are pretty much old-school good-government New England types: they would pass for Democrats anywhere else.

Also, there have been no town-wide rallies or other large events to support the family's point of view and only a few letters to the editor taking their side, either.

And it is too late in the CT political cycle this year for him to launch any kind of statewide attempt at being elected to...anything. By the time the next round of elections happens, I suspect the Pelletier case will be largely forgotten...the way the Terry Schiavo case has been.

My sister lives in West Hartford and she didn't know anything about it two weeks ago. It is disappointing that others in their town wouldn't care about this injustice. I feel for them living in a place like that. I agree that this has been very telling as to where democrats stand on these issues, as it has become very political.

 

[CathyinTexas]

The publication of text books and peer reviewed papers and the receipt of research money are all generally viewed as signs of expertise not deceit. If publication and research is the standard, are you suggesting that the Pelletier parents should distrust Dr Mark Korson as well?

I say this because the facts shout conflict of interest to me. It was in the professionals best interest to see somatoform, imo. Maybe they did convince themselves (probably) that she met the criteria, although it is a diagnosis that is arrived at over time, seeing a pattern, and looking at medical records, talking to physicians, which they did not do in the short amount of time it took for them to make it.

 

[Donjeta]

It is in no professional's best interests to make false diagnoses.

I very much doubt that they get paid by the number of somatoform patients that they diagnose.