Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #2

[Linda7NJ]

My friends niece was Children's Hospital of Philadelphia being treated for leukemia. Family stayed (lived) in her room for weeks. There were no "visiting hours" no limits on the amount of people either.

My son also had a procedure there and in all honesty it was the very best hospital experience I've ever been witness too. I can't say enough good things about the place based on my experience.


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[mck16]

She is an LVN, a licensed vocational nurse.

She has very limited ability to provide basic nursing care, but cannot administer meds, start IV's etc. She can probably take vital signs using an automated instrument on non-critically ill people, bathe them, provide some assistance with meals or dressing or toileting.

On the nursing hierarchy, she is on the next to the lowest step and not at all qualified to be making any comments about surgical procedures, medications, or ICU care.

This information is not correct, and is outdated. I will provide a link that provides what an LVN can do and what their duties involve.

http://work.chron.com/lvn-do-4238.html

Duties

A licensed vocational nurse's duties revolve around basic patient care. LVNs monitor their patients' vital signs and keep their charts up to date. They assist patients in basic hygiene and personal care, including bathing and dressing them and helping them eat if necessary. They can give injections, monitor catheters, change bandages and help bring down fevers with alcohol rubs. In some states, vocational nurses can administer prescription medications or start an IV if needed. They also provide emotional support for their patients, helping them cope with the stresses of the clinical environment. LVNs always work under the supervision of a doctor or registered nurse.

 

[MsSeal]

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...38360221.html?_osource=SocialFlowTwt_BAYBrand

A Q&A on the debate.

Hospital officials said that parents do not have a constitutional right to determine when to remove ventilation from a brain-dead patient and that a California law provides only for a reasonably brief period for a family to gather at a patient's bedside before ventilation can be removed.

To me this is where it got muddy. Jani's mother needed more time, they gave her more time and then she started pushing for even more time with it ending up in court.

 

[mck16]

My friends niece was Children's Hospital of Philadelphia being treated for leukemia. Family stayed (lived) in her room for weeks. There were no "visiting hours" no limits on the amount of people either.

My son also had a procedure there and in all honesty it was the very best hospital experience I've ever been witness too. I can't say enough good things about the place based on my experience.


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She is in PICU not on a regular wing. I think.

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...38360221.html?_osource=SocialFlowTwt_BAYBrand

A Q&A on the debate.



To me this is where it got muddy. Jani's mother needed more time, they gave her more time and then she started pushing for even more time with it ending up in court.

MsSeal thanks for the link

snipped

Q: What happens next?

A: A California judge has given the family until Jan. 7 to work out an agreement with the hospital or to secure a federal court injunction or an extension from a state appeals court. If none of that happens by that date, the hospital would have authority to remove the ventilator.

 

[jjenny]

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...38360221.html?_osource=SocialFlowTwt_BAYBrand

A Q&A on the debate.



To me this is where it got muddy. Jani's mother needed more time, they gave her more time and then she started pushing for even more time with it ending up in court.

Judge is the one who extended the time twice. The first time so she can be examined by another specialist. The second time I see no apparent reason, since she is legally dead in CA and hospital has a right to turn off ventillators on legally dead patients. Judge did declare her to be legally dead. So why is he extending the time?

 

[Leilei]

She is an LVN, a licensed vocational nurse.

She has very limited ability to provide basic nursing care, but cannot administer meds, start IV's etc. She can probably take vital signs using an automated instrument on non-critically ill people, bathe them, provide some assistance with meals or dressing or toileting.

On the nursing hierarchy, she is on the next to the lowest step and not at all qualified to be making any comments about surgical procedures, medications, or ICU care.

Would suctioning a patient fall under her responsibilities? Just curious, as it has been mentioned that she tried to suction the blood, at least that's what was said in news reports.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I posted this on the previous thread shortly before it was closed. I don't think that anyone responded, so perhaps not many folks saw my post. I'm curious about what Jahi knew/understood about her surgery.

I've only read a few articles, watched/listened to some reports about this case but haven't read every post in this discussion. Has there been any mention of how thoroughly Jahi herself was educated about her impending surgery? I realize that physicians and her parents had the ultimate say in the procedures, but was Jahi made aware of the inherent risks of the surgery?

I was away at college when one of my sisters had open heart surgery at age 14, but I knew that she was included in most discussions regarding the procedure. My mom told me that the surgical "team" met with my sister and talked to her about each step of the procedure. She was able to ask questions and had ample knowledge of what to expect before, during, and after surgery.

I hope that Jahi's family can let go and begin to grieve and heal.

 

[mck16]

Would suctioning a patient fall under her responsibilities? Just curious, as it has been mentioned that she tried to suction the blood, at least that's what was said in news reports.

When my mother was dying and she had the fluid build up, the nurse gave me the suction and told me to do it. I was in no shape to do it however I tried for my mother's sake I don't think it takes any particular expertise, so I would say yes, especially in an emergency situation. jmo

 

[MsSeal]

Judge is the one who extended the time twice. The first time so she can be examined by another specialist. The second time I see no apparent reason, since she is legally dead in CA and hospital has a right to turn off ventillators on legally dead patients. Judge did declare her to be legally dead. So why is he extending the time?

I can't figure it out. Did he want to appear fair and protective of her rights especially at the holidays. Not be the cruel judge who authorized pulling of the plug at Christmas/New Year's.

It will be interesting on Tuesday what the judge decides because I doubt they will have a place lined up, she has had plenty of time to come to terms with this and there is no holiday excuse.

 

[Elley Mae]

According to court documents cited by the Associated Press on Newsday, the center located at 12 Platinum Court in Medford has offered to take Jahi McMath, who was declared brain dead and is on life support following a tonsil surgery.

http://medford-ny.patch.com/groups/...-dead-may-come-to-medford-facility-medford-ny

http://hyperbaricmedicalsolutions.com/

 

[ChristYTN]

My mother and sister are both LVN...they both administered meds and were basically interchangeable with their RN co-workers.
My mom was a orthopaedic nurse, then moved to the neurology floor and worked the last 20 years of her career on an in unit hospice facility.
My sister worked OB and now does home care for special needs pediatric patients.
They live in Texas...so laws may vary from state to state.

But, I'm having a feeling that this girls family was very difficult from the beginning and I'm willing to bet the hospital had a hard time with them from the beginning.
I'm basing that on just my feelings right now.

That hospital is turned upside down accommodating this family and if I had a family member in there, I would probably demand to be moved.

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[jjenny]

I can't figure it out. Did he want to appear fair and protective of her rights especially at the holidays. Not be the cruel judge who authorized pulling of the plug at Christmas/New Year's.

It will be interesting on Tuesday what the judge decides because I doubt they will have a place lined up, she has had plenty of time to come to terms with this and there is no holiday excuse.

I can't figure it out either.
Per CA law, the hospital is only required to provide a reasonably short time before turning off the ventillator. Ample time was already provided.
Why are the extensions being given here? This could create a precedent under which families with brain dead relatives could demand extensions and brain dead relatives will remain attached to ventillators with no end in sight.

 

[Cubby]

Considering Jahi was talking, laughing and eating a popcicle after surgery no wonder she started to bleed.

I'm tired of hearing about the family's side of the story. I want to hear the hospitals' side.

I'm sure we are not getting the 100% truth from the family.

JMO

and considering they (the family) will not allow the hospital to discuss this matter, is telling.

I'm curious about post op instructions. Was she supposed to be talking immediately after surgery?

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Judge is the one who extended the time twice. The first time so she can be examined by another specialist. The second time I see no apparent reason, since she is legally dead in CA and hospital has a right to turn off ventillators on legally dead patients. Judge did declare her to be legally dead. So why is he extending the time?

I was hoping that one of our wonderful attorney members here at WS's would chime in on this, because I have questions as well on how the court system works.

On the first extension, I believe the judge stated that any further matters would have to be appealed to a higher court. They filed last minute and the judge gave them additional time to appeal to the higher court. He gave then until 1/7.

The higher court extended 24 hours for time to review. The following day the court gave them an extension until Friday to show that they had plans in place for transfer of her.

I am curious what will happen on Friday in court and what their attorney's next move may be.

On Friday can the judge put an end to this?

eta: Did the judge have to give them more time to appeal?

 

[jjenny]

According to court documents cited by the Associated Press on Newsday, the center located at 12 Platinum Court in Medford has offered to take Jahi McMath, who was declared brain dead and is on life support following a tonsil surgery.

http://medford-ny.patch.com/groups/...-dead-may-come-to-medford-facility-medford-ny

http://hyperbaricmedicalsolutions.com/

We've been discussing it for a while now. This center right now only has an outpatient facility. Clearly someone who is brain dead and attached to a ventillator is not a good candidate for an outpatient therapy. They are building an inpatient facility but it's still under construction. This doesn't sound like a realistic option.

 

[popsicle]

Would suctioning a patient fall under her responsibilities? Just curious, as it has been mentioned that she tried to suction the blood, at least that's what was said in news reports.

Yes, however she was not working under her license. She was a visitor and a grandmother. jmo

 

[Elley Mae]

We've been discussing it for a while now. This center right now only has an outpatient facility. Clearly someone who is brain dead and attached to a ventillator is not a good candidate for an outpatient therapy. They are building an inpatient facility but it's still under construction. This doesn't sound like a realistic option.

Oh I know. But with all the talk continuing about it I thought why? Well it seems that they are going to hire persons to accommodate her till the other place is finished with the renovations.jmo

http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/c...tate-launches-investigation-into-medical-case

In a letter to Dolan, Scerri said the facility would accept Jahi into its outpatient center and eventually move her into a planned inpatient facility, now under construction, for long-term care.

"We will be providing Jahi McMath 24-hour licensed nursing staff and licensed respiratory therapists," she wrote. "We are also hiring a pediatrician who will accept her as his patient."

The family still must get Jahi to the facility. A letter from Medway Air Ambulance quotes a price of $31,910 to transport Jahi from Oakland to Long Island.

Medway flight coordinator Terry Hoard confirmed his company quoted the family a price and would have no problem transporting a brain-dead patient across the country.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

There have been so many different accounts in MSM by the family and now it comes out that Jahi's mother passed out. It's stated in one MSM account that mom called for grandma to come help, so if true grandma didn't see everything and mom passes out.

Then attorney comes in and "fine tunes" their statements for court.

How can their accounts be taken as accurate? Sorry, it just frustrates me to no end seeing people on SM taking what they say as gospel and bashing the hospital and staff. SMH

 

[jjenny]

Oh I know. But with all the talk continuing about it I thought why? Well it seems that they are going to hire persons to accommodate her till the other place is finished with the renovations.jmo.

My guess is there is no other facility willing to take her. Otherwise why send a brain dead patient across the country to a place that is still under construction?
Where she will be an outpatient? But they will keep her as an inpatient in their outpatient center? Don't they need a license for that? Also it doesn't appear to me they will be able to do any surgeries on her that are needed to get her to their facility.