Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #3

[Elley Mae]

I must have missed something somewhere somehow, is she now breathing? Or is the ventilator doing the "breathing" for her. Cause iirc one (1) of the test to determine brain death was to turn off the ventilator and her heart began to stop, hence brain death. idk jmo

 

[jjenny]

A simple question, and my apologies if this has been asked/answered: Given that Jahi has no brain activity, what bodily functions does she have other than breathing and a heartbeat with the aid of the ventilator?

She doesn't really breathe on hew own. If the ventillator is stopped breathing and heartbeat will stop.
But on a ventillator she still has bodily functions that other people have.

 

[MaybeNotToday]

I have no medical knowledge or training, but I do feel that whatever is best for Jahi is what should be done. I do find it hard to believe that 6 doctors would all be wrong. If she is no longer with us, then please let her go with peace and dignity. She has neither at this point, IMO. GB this precious child.



MOO

When there is a fundamental distrust of doctors, lawyers, judges, justice system and even "dominant" societal norms, it is clear to me that only her religious community will be able to get through to this family.

This could be a teaching opportunity. Something could be made from her tragedy. Isn't that better than this?

 

[jjenny]

I must have missed something somewhere somehow, is she now breathing? Or is the ventilator doing the "breathing" for her. Cause iirc one (1) of the test to determine brain death was to turn off the ventilator and her heart began to stop, hence brain death. idk jmo

No, she isn't breathing. If she could breathe on her own obviously she wouldn't be considered brain dead. And the family could just wheel her out of the hospital and take her to wathever other place they wanted to. But she has to be attached to a ventillator otherwise her heart will stop.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

"Religion" is just another tactic that the attorney is trying to use to fight this is court.

The mother has stated she wants CHO to "fix" her. She has stated that she believes she can recover and has given the courts examples of others, that were not brain dead. The examples that have been provided to the courts are not comparable to Jahi's condition.

They are stalling the court system as much as possible to keep her in ICU at CHO. They have no other viable options, so they are trying to publicly defame CHO to do something that is not only unethical but also illegal and won't happen. The family attorney is very well aware of this. The "right to life" group has jumped on board, again trying to force action against already established laws.

Is any of this in the best interest of Jahi? All these other outsiders, have different interests in hand. Jahi's mother is not mentally capable at this point of making these decisions. She believes Jahi will have a miraculous recovery and she doesn't want to take her home and care for her, she wants her to go to another place, apparently anywhere is ok, where these experimental treatments can be performed on Jahi's body.

My mind equates this to not being able to say goodbye and bury a loved one. Instead, wanting their body to be taken elsewhere and hope that they will miraculously rise from death.

This to me, is a mental health issue. A mental health issue where all these other people, with other "agendas" have climbed on board to further their "own" agenda.

We can't allow those that need mental health treatment and those that have "alternate agendas" to force issues and actions, that break laws that are established.

 

[Linda7NJ]

On a ventillator with no chance of recovery? Why?

Because her mothers religious belief is that death occurs when her child's heart stops beating. She also believes in the power or prayer and miracles.

I don't agree with her belief, I believe in her protected right to it.

Personally, I believe is she's dug her feet in and rather than admit to herself her child is gone. She's using the defense mechanism "avoidance"
I don't believe she should be bashed for it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Softail]

"Religion" is just another tactic that the attorney is trying to use to fight this is court.

Speaking of religion, do we know what religion this family claims to be? All I have seen is religion this, and religion that. Anyone know what faith?

I'm just curious....

 

[Minette]

I must have missed something somewhere somehow, is she now breathing? Or is the ventilator doing the "breathing" for her. Cause iirc one (1) of the test to determine brain death was to turn off the ventilator and her heart began to stop, hence brain death. idk jmo

From the court documents linked in the previous thread, the court ordered specialist requested by the family performed an apnea test (determination of whether she can breathe on her own without the ventilator) which she failed. She can't breathe on her own without the ventilator.

 

[Elley Mae]

Because her mothers religious belief is that death occurs when her child's heart stops beating. She also believes in the power or prayer and miracles.

I don't agree with her belief, I believe in her protected right to it.

Personally, I believe is she's dug her feet in and rather than admit to herself her child is gone. She's using the defense mechanism "avoidance"
I don't believe she should be bashed for it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

bbm, I hope she is there in the room when the vent is turned off to she that her has stopped breathing. Maybe then she can start healing.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Speaking of religion, do we know what religion this family claims to be? All I have seen is religion this, and religion that. Anyone know what faith?

I'm just curious....

I have seen others state that she is Christian/Baptist, but I have no idea.

From her mother's own mouth and her actions, it is clear that she truly believes that Jahi will recover and others that are uneducated, have mislead her. The attorney is the one IMO, that has jumped on the "religion" aspect so it can be used as a tactic with the court system.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I must have missed something somewhere somehow, is she now breathing? Or is the ventilator doing the "breathing" for her. Cause iirc one (1) of the test to determine brain death was to turn off the ventilator and her heart began to stop, hence brain death. idk jmo

I meant that the ventilator was helping her breathe and keeping her heart beating. I know that Jahi isn't breathing on her own, but I wondered about other bodily functions like urination, bowel movements, etc. Perhaps my initial question would best be addressed by one of the medical professionals here. Thank you.

My mom was on a ventilator long enough for her five children to gather before she was removed from life support, so I'm familiar with the process.

 

[Karmady]

Because her mothers religious belief is that death occurs when her child's heart stops beating. She also believes in the power or prayer and miracles.

I don't agree with her belief, I believe in her protected right to it.

Personally, I believe is she's dug her feet in and rather than admit to herself her child is gone. She's using the defense mechanism "avoidance"
I don't believe she should be bashed for it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

newmrsc posted upthread about why the mother's personal religious beliefs (assuming they are legit and not just one of the lawyer's best angles) don't/shouldn't trump the brain death law based on constitutional analysis. I think that poster is correct. jmo

 

[Elley Mae]

I meant that the ventilator was helping her breathe and keeping her heart beating. I know that Jahi isn't breathing on her own, but I wondered about other bodily functions like urination, bowel function, etc.

My mom was on a ventilator long enough for her five children to gather before she was removed from life support, so I'm familiar with the process.

My post had nothing to do with what you have said. Sorry that it just so happened to appear after yours. I'll try to avoid that in the future.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I meant that the ventilator was helping her breathe and keeping her heart beating. I know that Jahi isn't breathing on her own, but I wondered about other bodily functions like urination, bowel function, etc.

My mom was on a ventilator long enough for her five children to gather before she was removed from life support, so I'm familiar with the process.

There are all kinds of medications that can be given to those that are brain dead to keep their organs functioning. Right now, I know Jahi is at least being given BP medications that are assisting to keep her BP under control and her heart beating. Whatever treatment CHO was giving Jahi, is still being provided as ordered by the court. CHO has been ordered to continue the already established treatment but not ordered to do any more than that.

Other bodies that have been maintained on ventilators for long time periods have received medications to make up for what the brain doesn't produce, to keep the body functioning. Other medications I have read about that have been used in other cases are hormones, meds to control diabetes, thyroid, antibiotics for infection among many others.

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

The mother honestly said she was glad that Jahi was "kind of a thick girl"? Does she not understand that Jahi is not thick, she is obese, and that obesity is what has caused her death? Without it she would not have had the sleep apnea that led to the surgery.

This case is so depressing. The mother is being poorly advised and guided, a lawyer is grasping opportunities to make a name for himself (and is so grasping that his documents are littered with basic errors), the hospital is stuck in an unwinnable position, the legal system is slopey-shouldering and at the centre of this, a dead girl whose legacy could have been saving other lives and instead is this?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

My post had nothing to do with what you have said. Sorry that it just so happened to appear after yours. I'll try to avoid that in the future.

No problem. I think that my original question was misunderstood in that I know that Jahi is not breathing on her own and that she would not breathe or have a heartbeat without the respirator. I'm interested in other bodily functions since Jahi has no brain activity. I hope that one of our verified medical professionals will weigh in on this.

 

[Donjeta]

From the court documents (the hospital response)

The First Amendment protects Ms. Winkfield's right to believe that her child is not dead. However, the First Amendment does not permit Ms. Winkfield to act on her beliefs by compelling Children's Hospital to disregard a valid state law that protects a valid state objective.

page 69
http://www.scribd.com/doc/195185964...ec-30-2013-McMath-Civil-Rights-Lawsuit-filing

Well worth a read.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

No problem. I think that my original question was misunderstood in that I know that Jahi is not breathing on her own and that she would not breathe or have a heartbeat without the respirator. I'm interested in other bodily functions since Jahi has no brain activity. I hope that one of our verified medical professionals will weigh in on this.

I sorry, in my previous reply, I didn't really address your question. At this time we really don't know the condition that Jahi is in or what bodily systems may be breaking down and ceasing to function. Each body would be different.

The oxygen flow and medications are assisting her other organs to function.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

The mother honestly said she was glad that Jahi was "kind of a thick girl"? Does she not understand that Jahi is not thick, she is obese, and that obesity is what has caused her death? Without it she would not have had the sleep apnea that led to the surgery...

<snipped>

"Thick" is a new one on me Never heard it before.

 

[popsicle]

Yesterday I posted two cases where the family took their brain dead child home to die. Here are two more cases that TRO's were issued.

Michael Todd v. University of Kansas (2006)

A judge dissolved the temporary restraining order at 3:40 p.m., and a respirator and all tubes were disconnected.

The death certificate will list May 10 as the date Todd succumbed to gunshot wounds suffered a day earlier

http://www.prolifeblogs.com/articles/archives/2006/05/family_removed.php

Chris Lanciano v. Martinsburg WV Hospital (2009)) On life-support for a week after the Mom did research and believed he would recover. A ten day TRO was issued to give her time to take over his care or arrange for someone to do so. After 7 days she requested the order to be dissolved and support withdrawn.

http://medicalfutility.blogspot.com/2009/09/west-virginia-court-orders-hospital-to.html
http://medicalfutility.blogspot.com/2009/09/christian-lanciano-tro-dissolved-life.html