Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #3

[Herat]

The attorney on Fox News last night said that no insurance will pay for care once brain death is recorded in the chart. That extends to Medicare and Medical, too.

So CHO will not receive compensation for her care from Dec 12 henceforth.

That also means that no other facility will receive compensation for care, were she to be transferred. Nor would there be compensation for any care given at home.

 

[scmom]

Settlement conferences.
http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/settleconf

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_24836094/jahi-mcmath-case-heads-federal-court-friday

Three separate courts have denied requests by the family attorney, Christopher Dolan, to order the hospital to perform the operations on Jahi. Another request was filed by Dolan in Alameda County Superior Court on Thursday.

Doctors and ethicists have said it is unheard of for a patient declared brain dead to be moved to a long-term facility. The same experts have said the hospital is following state law and that the hospital's position is what would be expected from other facilities.

 

[MEN3C]

I *think* her heart failed before the ventilator was turned off.

No, as per page 2 of the PDF of the case report: the family requested that the life support be withdrawn. The hospital, after agreeing, then withdrew life support, and 18 minutes later the patient suffered a cardiac arrest.


-Source:https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/nmc/48/3/48_3_114/_pdf

Thank you for posting this link, it was a very interesting case report.

 

[Donjeta]

No, as per page 2 of the PDF of the case report: the family requested that the life support be withdrawn. The hospital, after agreeing, then withdrew life support, and 18 minutes later the patient suffered a cardiac arrest.


-Source:https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/nmc/48/3/48_3_114/_pdf

Thank you for posting this link, it was a very interesting case report.

Thanks, I don't seem to be able to access that pdf.

 

[Herat]

That New Beginnings place hasn't had an update on construction for 9 months.

They expect to open a 12-bed inpatient care unit for TBI in that old two-story farmhouse, yet they are asking for funds to put in an automatic door opener in their current facility because they don't have one and evidently can't find the $5,000 needed to install one.

I also don't understand why she needs to be working with a private investigator, Angela Clemente on Jahi's case.

There is no medical director currently listed as affiliated with the "Community Center" as New Beginnings bills itself.

The fact that no licensed facility for the inpatient care of TBI patients has contacted CHO speaks volumes.

It would be kindess if the family would take her home and be with her in the privacy of their home and familiar surroundings. Yet, once again, the mother will not take on any responsibility for her care. This is really diminishing my sympathy for her.

 

[jjenny]

No, as per page 2 of the PDF of the case report: the family requested that the life support be withdrawn. The hospital, after agreeing, then withdrew life support, and 18 minutes later the patient suffered a cardiac arrest.


-Source:https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/nmc/48/3/48_3_114/_pdf

Thank you for posting this link, it was a very interesting case report.

That abstract should have been written a little more clearly.
But yes, the family finally did decide to withdraw life support and then the patient suffered cardiac arrest.

 

[Elley Mae]

That New Beginnings place hasn't had an update on construction for 9 months.

They expect to open a 12-bed inpatient care unit for TBI in that old two-story farmhouse, yet they are asking for funds to put in an automatic door opener in their current facility because they don't have one and evidently can't find the $5,000 needed to install one.

I also don't understand why she needs to be working with a private investigator, Angela Clemente on Jahi's case.

There is no medical director currently listed as affiliated with the "Community Center" as New Beginnings bills itself.

The fact that no licensed facility for the inpatient care of TBI patients has contacted CHO speaks volumes.

It would be kindess if the family would take her home and be with her in the privacy of their home and familiar surroundings. Yet, once again, the mother will not take on any responsibility for her care. This is really diminishing my sympathy for her.

bbm, Absolutely.

 

[MEN3C]

Thanks, I don't seem to be able to access that pdf.

Oh, I am on my university network so perhaps it's because of that. I am not sure if that article is available free. I see the 'Full Text PDF 233k' link from the page you posted (https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/nmc/48/3/48_3_114/_article).

A meta analysis (for those interested, and again I apologize if people outside a university network are unable to access it) that talks about survival after brain death: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9855499

It talks about survival time after brain death and analyzes published cases where a person with a diagnosis of brain death 'lived' for longer than a week (in some cases months or years). I don't want to get into a discussion of physiology and specific cases mentioned that article if other people cannot access it.


Note that we are not talking about recovery at all here, just how long one is able to be maintained via ventilator and other life support measures. The conclusion of that article above seems to be that many times, patients die very quickly, other times within a month, and rarely they can be maintained on a ventilator and other life support measures for many years.

 

[Donjeta]

The full text link takes me to an error message but I was able to get the whole article after all by searching for the title of the article on the top of the jstage page.

The other link asks for an university login.

 

[MEN3C]

That abstract should have been written a little more clearly.
But yes, the family finally did decide to withdraw life support and then the patient suffered cardiac arrest.

Yes, I initially thought the same thing when reading the abstract! Usually that type of thing is caught prior to publication.

The full text link takes me to an error message but I was able to get the whole article after all by searching for the title of the article on the top of the jstage page.

The other link asks for an university login.

Thanks, I will see if I can find a free version or another meta analysis that's similar in nature.

 

[Minette]

I am thinking the 'settlement' conference today is just about the issues involved with maintaining the ventilator, etc., NOT any kind of financial settlement. So what on earth could be accomplished if the mother still refuses to acknowledge Jahi's death?? What could the hospital possibly offer that wouldn't be medically unethical? The whole idea of a settlement conference for this issue is baffling to me. If they were litigating potential financial damages, sure. But that isn't the issue before the courts right now.

 

[Softail]

I am thinking the 'settlement' conference today is just about the issues involved with maintaining the ventilator, etc., NOT any kind of financial settlement. So what on earth could be accomplished if the mother still refuses to acknowledge Jahi's death?? What could the hospital possibly offer that wouldn't be medically unethical? The whole idea of a settlement conference for this issue is baffling to me. If they were litigating potential financial damages, sure. But that isn't the issue before the courts right now.

For me too. I just don't get it. I'm hoping when it is over, and there is more information it will make sense.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

How long will the settlement conference last? Will it conclude today, or is it likely to go on for days, weeks, etc.? Will the scope be limited as to what can be discussed? When the conference concludes, does the Judge issue a ruling on how the parties should proceed going forward?

 

[jjenny]

Thanks, I don't seem to be able to access that pdf.

Basically pateint was maintained on a ventillator with other treatments until family finally asked to disconnect life support. After disconnection of ventillator, her heart stopped within 18 minutes.

 

[Trino]

Basically pateint was maintained on a ventillator with other treatments until family finally asked to disconnect life support. After disconnection of ventillator, her heart stopped within 18 minutes.

If Jahi is disconnected, the best we can hope is that she will go fast.

 

[jjenny]

If Jahi is disconnected, the best we can hope is that she will go fast.

Since she can't breathe on her own, the heat should stop quickly.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

For me too. I just don't get it. I'm hoping when it is over, and there is more information it will make sense.

Legal maneuvers = major stalling. Enough already! :moo:

 

[MaybeNotToday]

That New Beginnings place hasn't had an update on construction for 9 months.



They expect to open a 12-bed inpatient care unit for TBI in that old two-story farmhouse, yet they are asking for funds to put in an automatic door opener in their current facility because they don't have one and evidently can't find the $5,000 needed to install one.



I also don't understand why she needs to be working with a private investigator, Angela Clemente on Jahi's case.



There is no medical director currently listed as affiliated with the "Community Center" as New Beginnings bills itself.



The fact that no licensed facility for the inpatient care of TBI patients has contacted CHO speaks volumes.



It would be kindess if the family would take her home and be with her in the privacy of their home and familiar surroundings. Yet, once again, the mother will not take on any responsibility for her care. This is really diminishing my sympathy for her.

But they have NEW windows!

 

[Donjeta]

I wonder what would happen if CHO said OK, Jahi can be moved tomorrow, have your airlift ready to pick her up at 7 am so she can get settled in the New Beginnings facility before Sunday...