Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #5

[popsicle]

From trailer, seems like she's going with the family information.

Yes, I had to turn her off. JVM and her guests did a pretty good job getting the facts rights.

 

[Herat]

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying or maybe I'm not being specific enough.

If her body is transported to a facility that provides rehabilitation in various forms and there are doctors orders for this rehab, then they can bill the insurance for her care and all the necessary supplies, med, etc. They see her as they see others they treat and that is that she is in a coma or vegetative state, although she is really deceased.

I imagine they would apply for medicaid in NY.

I'm not really sure how long they can sustain her heart though, so this may all just be discussion for the next case.

All information leads us to believe she is in California, probably still in the bay area since the mother and grandmother seem to be still local and in physical contact with her.

Her mother works for Home Depot, so she may have their insurance if full time. If not, no insurance. Considering the discussion of Jahi's prior treatments, I have to assume there is insurance or the mother was already qualified for Medical (California's version of Medicaid).

The facility has to have various kinds of certificates and licenses to bill insurance or Medical. The computers will not accept any claim unless you can provide the documentation of proper licensure. Physicians would bill for their services separately, using their provider #.

It can take a long time to get paid. Maybe 6 months from now some providers will still be waiting for payment. An attorney previously stated that no insurance (including Medicare and Medical) will pay for services from the date and time she is declared brain dead in the chart.

I seriously doubt insurance will pay on these claims. If they do, the insurance industry has created a nightmare scenario for themselves, and IMO they would deserve all the criticism coming their way.

It's possible all this is being done without charge. For sympathy for the family and for not wanting to antagonize them and be involved in legal action.

 

[K_Z]

Well, Dr. Fiori's report to the court clearly confirms what many of us were thinking.

The "good news" is that the deterioration is progressing to a point were it will not be much longer before the heart finally stops. Hours to maybe a few days. This is not a body in pretty good functional condition.

I have a strong suspicion that Jahi's body is refractory to the effects of vasopressin at this point, weeks into vasopressin treatment. The blood pressure is quite unstable with even mundane turning in bed, so I think we can pretty much rule out the cross country airevac flight to the resurrection care center in NY.

But hey, New Beginnings got their publicity, so that's what it's all about, right? Part of it all, anyway. But just don't anyone say (out loud) that there is any exploitation going on.

Because, I think that what many are questioning and becoming cynical about is not that some people grieve differently, believe differently, or let go differently. The very public, almost hourly, miserable (IMO) media and social media provocations of this attorney, and this uncle will try the sympathies of even the most tender hearted person.

Many of the public simply do not believe that this situation is even remotely about the parent's religious or cultural beliefs, at this point, or at all about the child that was Jahi. Many are heartbroken that we, the anonymous public, are more upset and devastated at the continued desecration of this young girl than her own family appears to be. We don't see the uncle as grieving, or the attorney as advocating, but we view their actions as pandering and exploitation. And many of us are sick about that, and very upset and angry at the mockery this situation has made of health care at the end of life, and the proper role of the legal system.

I truly believe that this situation is not about love, or life, or delusions, and grief, and inability to let go. It's about power, hate, revenge, and exploitation, and it's ugly because it involves the forced deterioration of the body of a young, innocent teenage girl, with people fighting over her like a pack of hyenas. It's really impossible to me to see that as any kind of expression of love. IMO. JMO.

 

[Herat]

If Jahi is at the point of deterioration (seems she has been for weeks), wouldn't the tissue around the heart and lungs also be deteriorating? :waitasec:

erm- what do you mean by the tissue around the heart and the lungs?

She might well develop pleural effusions, or possibly empyema if the lungs become infected from the poor pulmonary toilet (the term used when the lungs can't be adequately cleared of secretions). Dr. Fiori has described the presence of malodorous and abnormal appearing "sputum" so it is possible she is developing infections in the spaces around the lungs, not so much usually around the heart.

 

[Herat]

Massive kudos to you, K_Z.

We need to send that to every media outlet reporting on this story. And to CHO's administration, and their nursing staff.

 

[Softail]

erm- what do you mean by the tissue around the heart and the lungs?
She might well develop pleural effusions, or possibly empyema if the lungs become infected from the poor pulmonary toilet (the term used when the lungs can't be adequately cleared of secretions). Dr. Fiori has described the presence of malodorous and abnormal appearing "sputum" so it is possible she is developing infections in the spaces around the lungs, not so much usually around the heart.

I was trying to be gentle. How about this? Wouldn't the heart and lungs also begin to deteriorate?

 

[Isabelle]

Exactly. Dead people don't heal, so her throat should be in the same condition it was in when she died.

I would imagine most if not all mucus membranes have begun sloughing away if her intestines are doing this. This would include the airway.

ETA: wouldn't be surprised if she started hemorrhaging via her GI system and any other mucus membrane lined system.

 

[Yoda]

Every picture I've seen of Jahi she is smiling. What a beautiful girl.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...se-questions-answers-20140106,0,6567373.story

<snipped for space>

What about an autopsy?

Jahi McMath’s death is the type of case that falls under the jurisdiction of the coroner’s bureau. However, by statute the coroner has discretion to determine the level of inquiry to be conducted. Since the body has been released to the family it is possible that there will be no autopsy.

Can maintenance of cardiopulmonary functions by a ventilator affect the ability to determine cause of death during an autopsy?

It can. But that depends on the cause of death. The ventilator can cause changes in the body that in some cases can make cause of death difficult to determine.

Thank you, donjeta! I've been trying to find these answers.

Jane Velez-Mitchell &#8207;@jvelezmitchell 1h
13 year old Jahi McMath moved to new facility. I’m talking to her family tonight. What would you do if Jahi were your daughter? #JahiMcMath
Reply Retweet Favorite More Expand

jn75 &#8207;@tyuirhjk 5m
@jvelezmitchell I would respectfully bury her, for starters. Dignity for #Jahi.

:shush: Don't out me, but that's my "news" twitter handle. And I'm indebted to donjeta and popsicle and all the 'verifieds' in our midst for some really informative links, today. You guys rock.

 

[Herat]

I was trying to be gentle. How about this? Wouldn't the heart and lungs also begin to deteriorate?

Not really. It's the brain, bowel, and skin that are most at risk, followed by the adrenals and the kidneys. Ironically, unless infarcted by an ischemic event, the heart is one of the last organs to deteriorate.

 

[Herat]

Every picture I've seen of Jahi she is smiling. What a beautiful girl.

Yes. She looks like the kind of happy kid you'd like to sit next to, and someone who would be fun to talk to.

Makes my heart hurt even writing this.

 

[Softail]

Not really. It's the brain, bowel, and skin that are most at risk, followed by the adrenals and the kidneys. Ironically, unless infarcted by an ischemic event, the heart is one of the last organs to deteriorate.

Well that isn't good. :banghead: What will it take? For her ... :nevermind:

:maddening:

 

[Isabelle]

The hospital has starved to death an already dead person? These people are unreal.

Even if Jahi were not brain dead, as critical as her condition is/was, feeding her would be least important in terms of her care.

 

[gngr~snap]

With grandmother, the vocational nurse?

I hope not!
I'm an L.P.N. I think it's basically the same.
NO WAY, would I ever, dare to think I could care for that child.
Even saying that sounds crazy.
She's dead. Whatever the back story is, grandama is gonna be held responsible IMO (in the end)
Whoo! Wouldn't touch that mess with a 10 foot pole.
I am very well aware of my limitations!
Sheesh...

Sent from my SGH-T679 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Isabelle]

Dr Fiori's report discusses not only brain death and brain stem non-function, but the smell associated with suctioning stuff from the lungs, the lining of the bowels being expelled, the change in skin elasticity ... all of which happened prior to the deceased being removed from the hospital ... I can't imagine what the family is thinking. The hospital is not responsible for what has happened to this deceased child. I very much hope that the hospital takes the lawyer to task for what he has done, as this should never be allowed to happen again.

I would think the movement required to transfer Jahi could have caused further damage to internal organs due to jarring, shearing forces.

 

[popsicle]

Thank you, donjeta! I've been trying to find these answers.




:shush: Don't out me, but that's my "news" twitter handle. And I'm indebted to donjeta and popsicle and all the 'verifieds' in our midst for some really informative links, today. You guys rock.

So JVM did say she was talking to the family tonight and yet she didn't. Wonder if something is going down tonight.

 

[Herat]

Well that isn't good. :banghead: What will it take? For her ... :nevermind:

:maddening:

It will likely be a cardia arrythmia

 

[PMLsmom]

I am only on page 2 of this thread - JUST HOW can a coroner release a DEAD body to a family??????? Can someone from the legal field respond, please?

I am really pizzed at the coroner!!! At this point it is his/her snafu....

This could set precedence for the future? We all could get our "brain dead" family members RELEASED BY THE CORONER??????? And then ????? OMG, think people...of the ramifications.

WHY is no one questioning the coroner??? TIA, and IMO

 

[QueenD]

I would imagine most if not all mucus membranes have begun sloughing away if her intestines are doing this. This would include the airway.

ETA: wouldn't be surprised if she started hemorrhaging via her GI system and any other mucus membrane lined system.

"Sloughing away" is that like melting away, or deteriorating?

 

[gngr~snap]

Not only are her bowels not functioning (as in lack of bowel sounds) the lining of her bowel is beginning to slough off. A spontaneous bowel perforation, peritonitis, and sepsis are not far off.

Any feeding tube would probably perforate and only hasten the slow death of her body by sepsis.

Trying to catch up.
Oh Emm Gee...
I have no words!

Sent from my SGH-T679 using Tapatalk 2