Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #6

[nursebeeme]

Has anyone talked about why they cannot put in the peg tube? Also vitamins are most likely a banana bag (mvi in d5 our 10)

 

[Linda7NJ]

I guess I'm taking issue with the inconsistency within the laws.

And the stripping of rights.

 

[Karmady]

What if she was impregnated as a consequence of a rape, and her family was absolutely against it?

Good question. I think if she was aware that she was pregnant at the time of her death and hadn't opted to terminate the pregnancy but for the execution of that plan, the circumstances would be the same and the docs would be obligated to try and keep the baby alive. jmo

 

[nursebeeme]

I guess I'm taking issue with the inconsistency within the laws.

And the stripping of rights.

how can something that has not been legally changed be stripped? A for inconsistecy have they recently moved states?

 

[Karmady]

Well that's one way to look at it I suppose.

If the mother wasn't keeping the baby alive too, they could simply remove the baby and hook it to a machine.

I don't think it's one way to look at it. I think it's THE way it's being looked at. The only reason they can't remove the baby and keep it alive is because artificial wombs aren't in use yet. And it's my belief, although I haven't researched it, that that has more to do with ethical issues regarding "baby farms" than with the technological capability of doing it. jmo

 

[thistle]

From what little that I've read about the case in Texas, is that the fetus might have been deprived of oxygen also, while the mother died, so the health of the baby, if it can be brought to term, is also in question. Will the father have to raise a child that is severely disabled?

 

[Tulessa]

I'm just praying that the family can accept the reality. It sucks to be in their position. My heart goes out to them. The lawyers? Not so much. Like Git said..........walk in their shoes.

 

[Harmony 2]

Let's keep this discussion about Jahi, I understand it is a similar and related topic but I want to avoid having a parallel discussion... The other thread is at this link:

With pregnant wife unresponsive on life support, husband hopes to fulfill her wishes - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Thanks!

 

[Linda7NJ]

how can something that has not been legally changed be stripped? A for inconsistecy have they recently moved states?

I don't know if they changed states.

But it's bizarre to me she'd be considered alive in NJ and if she was pregnant in Texas she would be forced to remain hooked up.

 

[Herat]

Has anyone talked about why they cannot put in the peg tube? Also vitamins are most likely a banana bag (mvi in d5 our 10)

Yeah, throw some folic acid and B12 in a bag and call it "nutrients"

A Peg tube and permanent tracheostomy would require a surgeon and probably anesthesiologist and probably an OR for the proper table and lighting. Most licensed long term care centers cannot perform those procedures, no way.

We were told "she wasn't in good enough shape". Could be that her esophagus and stomach are too friable, or her BP is too labile, or maybe no surgeon/anesthesia will do the procedure on a legally dead person. The same issue CHO had.

 

[Tawny]

To compound that thought, thistle, what health impacts will there be on a baby that is being incubated by a body that has no brain function? Do we really know, scientifically, what a brain dead host body will or will not provide for the fetus growing inside?

It's a little too sci-fi for me and I don't think it's right. JMO.

Back to Jahi, I guess!

 

[nursebeeme]

I don't know if they changed states.

But it's bizarre to me she'd be considered alive in NJ and if she was pregnant in Texas she would be forced to remain hooked up.

I thought you were referring to the current case we are discussing

 

[Tawny]

Sorry, I didn't refresh before posting and didn't see the post to stay on topic with Jahi *blush*

 

[Isabelle]

Has anyone talked about why they cannot put in the peg tube? Also vitamins are most likely a banana bag (mvi in d5 our 10)

Dr. Flori reported in a court document that Jahi's intestines are being sloughed out of her system.

 

[Herat]

I haven't heard a peep out of anyone today. Has anyone heard anything 'new'. tia

Radio silence today with the exception of the puff piece on Dolan.

No Uncle, no mother, no NY hairdresser. Nada.

Any talk show followup. Goodness knows I'm not going to intentionally watch NG.

 

[SeekingJana]

Have you seen the medical document? She cannot even regulate her own body temp at thus point. I would go into more but really it just all ads up to what is happening here.

Upon reading Dr. Fiori's thorough medical assessment dated 1/3, the lack of temperature regulation jumped out at me. I had wondered when basal hypothermia would set in. I've only seen one other prolonged case of it, in a microcephalic infant who lived to the age of 9 months, and died in our Peds. unit as the family was not comfortable with a home hospice death. I referenced her very early on in this case, as her parents were extremely gracious and thankful for the care we gave her. They dressed her up every single day of her life like a tiny princess.. It was extremely sad but there was dignity and grace because of the positive staff- family interaction.

I wish this could have been the case for Jahi's family and her caregivers.

 

[thistle]

The fact that disturbs me the most, I think, is when Jahi's mother was speaking about her (& I don't have a link), but she said that she would be embarassed by all the attention because she is very shy, & that just tore me up. I wish that Jahi could have ended her life peacefully, without her circumstances being discussed, debated, & in some cases, derided.

 

[Karmady]

I don't know if they changed states.

But it's bizarre to me she'd be considered alive in NJ and if she was pregnant in Texas she would be forced to remain hooked up.

She wouldn't be considered alive. The family would be entitled to a religious exemption from the law that requires her to be turned over to the coroner. She'd still be dead in the eyes of the law and everyone else who doesn't hold those beliefs.

jmo

eta: like the religious exemption from vaccines. Children with an exemption aren't considered vaccinated. They're just allowed to attend school anyway.

 

[Herding Cats]

I have to say the following...

In the beginning, I had a lot of sympathy for NH and the family. No one should have to bury their child, especially after a surgery that was to improve her daughter's life. I saw how horribly she was suffering - the guilt, the shock, the loss...all so much, so much.

But, after a time, I started to feel manipulated by her. What sealed it for me was not the lawyering up. Rather, what got me was two things: Gramma NOT correcting anyone's misperception that she was an RN - making sure that her true licensing level was accurately portrayed. Gramma didn't see the need for that, and allowed us to believe she was an RN rather than an LVN. Why does that matter? It speaks to truth, honesty, integrity, and intent. Families have cultures, and if this is the oldest female member, then she set the tone...and the tone she set was dishonest, misleading, and lacking in integrity.

Second, and more importantly, is the family NOT releasing the hospital to speak of Jahi and the surgery, and what went wrong. Again, we go to the issues of honesty, intent, integrity, and truth. We, the public, were told their side, heard their descriptions of the horror they experienced...but were not allowed to hear the other side.

Why is that? Why, if there was nothing to hide, did the family refuse to allow the hospital to discuss things, to educate the public...but insist that the public hear their side, often loudly and vociferously?

Had the family NOT brought the public into it, I could easily see their call for privacy as an honest one. But to bring the public into this fight, and then to not let the other side explain their understanding of the situation...and educate the very same public that the family has been raising money from, and gathering sympathy from...well, to me, that speaks of a bullying culture.

So between the two issues - Gramma's setting the tone of dishonesty and the family refusing to let the hospital talk...I no longer have the ability to feel as much sympathy for the family as a whole.

That said, I cannot shake the thought of the diagnosis "dysfunctional grieving", which is a NANDA diagnosis. I am not sure, but I do know a lot of therapists counsel folks who have had trouble letting go of their loved ones...I don't know that diagnosis, though.

I believe that at this point, the mother is not in touch with reality; I'm not ready to say she's psychotic, but there are a lot of indications that she's broken with reality in some ways. She is not doing this as a faith-based step, as much as she may say so. She's doing it to avoid burying her daughter. Ad that, to me, is the saddest part of things...

If we ever need an example in the future of how strong denial can be, all I will ever need to do is look at this case.

And I must say, I'm personally angry at the family, and at her faith community. Her pastor does not seem to understand what having faith is...and as I posted a few days ago, it's not that God promises that nothing bad will happen to His followers; rather, He promises that He will help us through it. Her faith community has failed her badly, for not helping her understand this important aspect of faith...and have been encouraging serious delusions.

And I'm left wondering - when NW doesn't get her miracle, and instead has to bury Jahi...what will her faith be then? That she didn't "deserve" a miracle? That God doesn't exist, because He didn't raise Jahi from the dead? And how will that affect her, and her other children?

No, I can't say that I have overriding sympathy for the family. I feel horrible for Jahi...and at how her body has been treated by those who loved her most in life, now that she's passed. Allowing her to decompose while they watch and say "she might recover"...no, I'm angry for Jahi.

Just thought I'd add my thoughts on this aspect of things. It's been bugging me, a lot. Prayers for Jahi, always.

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Here is a very good discussion by experts in layman terms on this case.

http://www.kqed.org/a/forum/R201312301000

Sorry if this has already been posted. I hadn't seen it.