Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #6

[Sonya610]

I didn't get the marker when I had my surgery.

Hospitals may not use the marker but patients sometimes do so there is no "misunderstanding/confusion" about the procedure.

Surgery is a job. The folks that do that job often do it several times daily. It may be a "job" to them but if they are cutting on MY body that makes it personal. Markers help ensure there are no mistakes.

 

[Softail]

I didn't get the marker when I had my surgery. I got instructions to wash my bedding and shower at night and before leaving for the hospital with antibacterial soap. I got sedated in the hallway on the way to the or. I don't know why. I figure I must of been cranky because it was super early and they didn't want to hear me anymore.

It is in an effort to prevent malpractice. Last month when Mr. ST had his carotid artery surgery, they came and talked to us, explained everything, used a sharpie to indicate the side that was bad. Yes, they marked him with a sharpie. I was glad, as it reinforced no mistake about what was to occur.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I'm not certain but I think they be equivalent to LPN's in New Jersey.
If so it's not very high up in the nursing hyarchy.., iirc it's one step up from a CNA

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LPN (Licensed Practical Nurse) in Michigan, as well. My sister attended Nursing School at Harper-Grace Hospital (now part of the Detroit Medical Center) in the mid-1970s. After 15 months of training, she was a Licensed Practical Nurse and continued her studies to become a Registered Nurse while working part-time in a geriatric care facility.

 

[SeekingJana]

'She' refers to Jahi. That was cut and pasted from a very interesting article about the tragic case. I provided the appropriate links.

Respectfully, my signature line says that I do not read blogs. That's why I asked. Thank you.

 

[dh109977]

It is in an effort to prevent malpractice. Last month when Mr. ST had his carotid artery surgery, they came and talked to us, explained everything, used a sharpie to indicate the side that was bad. Yes, they marked him with a sharpie. I was glad, as it reinforced no mistake about what was to occur.

Oh there was no mistake I knew what they were doing. Actually I googled it and it explained it all to my surgeon why he laughed at me. It was my gallbladder. It wasn't major. My dad had surgery and they used the marker with him. Maybe just different hospitals.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I've wondered if, due to the fact that four procedures were performed in the pharyngeal area, if a Yankauer suction catheter was attached to the wall suction outlet tubing for a while and the family went to town with this, which can suck out, well, almost anything you can think of. The alternate term for it actually is " tonsil suction device".

I'm sure it's probably named after the guy that invented it...but if that's pronounced "YANK'-OW-er," then that's truly unfortunate.

 

[vlpate]

YES! Every ICU room I've ever set up had a a Yankauer at the ready.

But would someone without medical knowledge pick one up, turn it on (are they calibrated?) and start suctioning away...further, IF one had said medical knowledge, wouldn't they also know to consult a chart or ask a nurse/physician on duty if this is indicated. It's ok to act like I'm stupid.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Hospitals may not use the marker but patients sometimes do so there is no "misunderstanding/confusion" about the procedure.



Surgery is a job. The folks that do that job often do it several times daily. It may be a "job" to them but if they are cutting on MY body that makes it personal. Markers help ensure there are no mistakes.

Lmao! My son wrote on both of my arms prior to a surgery. One said, "No, not this one" and the other said, "yes, correct arm"


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[SeekingJana]

I'm sure it's probably named after the guy that invented it...but if that's pronounced "YANK'-OW-er," then that's truly unfortunate.

Info here, which I think is very understandable for non-medical people:
Yankauer suction tip - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[swilla2]

But would someone without medical knowledge pick one up, turn it on (are they calibrated?) and start suctioning away...further, IF one had said medical knowledge, wouldn't they also know to consult a chart or ask a nurse/physician on duty if this is indicated. It's ok to act like I'm stupid.

I wouldn't think a lay person would have a clue what it is or how to use it. It's a hard plastic thing. Hooks into a canister that is connected to the wall. You'd have to turn it on to make it suction. It has a dial to adjust the amount of suction.

 

[SeekingJana]

But would someone without medical knowledge pick one up, turn it on (are they calibrated?) and start suctioning away...further, IF one had said medical knowledge, wouldn't they also know to consult a chart or ask a nurse/physician on duty if this is indicated. It's ok to act like I'm stupid.

I'm just stating fact here: The grandmother, aged 50, is a LVN, Licensed Vocational Nurse in the state of CA.
In my experiences, an LPN ( same thing, different states) never touched the Yankauer suction because it is usually excessive suction pressure.
I can see a panicked person using it if it was at hand and if there was bleeding or obstruction from another source such as a food item or blood clot.

BTW, it is not unusual for people, especially youngsters, to feel that they are choking status post-op surgery in the mouth, throat, etc. due to the presence of edema, pain, and some inflammatory response. Likely, there was also packing present in the nose with the nasal surgery done.

 

[katydid23]

Respectfully, my signature line says that I do not read blogs. That's why I asked. Thank you.

This one has many very interesting and well thought out comments from local ICU nurses and some anethestists and surgeons. I learned a lot from reading there.

 

[SeekingJana]

I wouldn't think a lay person would have a clue what it is or how to use it. It's a hard plastic thing. Hooks into a canister that is connected to the wall. You'd have to turn it on to make it suction. It has a dial to adjust the amount of suction.

The grandmother, who was present, was a nurse, an LVN, elsewhere in CA. She would know about suction canisters and suction devices in general, but most likely, had not used this particular suction catheter in her nursing practice.

 

[katydid23]

Respectfully, my signature line says that I do not read blogs. That's why I asked. Thank you.

also, this is not a blog. This is a peer reviewed article in a medical journal:



See: Cote CJ, Posner KL, Domino KB. Death or Neurologic Injury After Tonsillectomy in Children with a Focus on Obstructive Sleep Apnea: Houston, We Have a Problem! (Anesth Analg 2013 Jul 10). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23842193

 

[katydid23]

In the document, the family's attorney, Christopher Dolan, says "originally the surgery was uneventful and (Jahi) awoke from sedation in the recovery room speaking with her mother ... (and) asking for a popsicle."

The girl was brought to the intensive care unit, where her mother was told that caregivers would fix her IV, the document states. After 25-45 minutes, her mother found her sitting up in bed and bleeding from the mouth.

"The nursing staff said 'it was normal' and the mother stayed bedside as the bleeding grew increasingly worse," according to the document. "The nurses gave (her mother) a cup/catch basin for (Jahi) to bleed from her mouth into."

Jahi's mother, Nailah Winkfield, asked for help and was again told the bleeding was normal, and was given paper towels to help clean up. Then, according to the document, "the bleeding intensified to where copious amounts of blood were being expelled from (Jahi's) mouth and then nose."

Another request for help from Jahi's family brought a larger container to collect blood, and, later, a suction device. Jahi's grandmother, herself a nurse, "made multiple requests, and then a loud demand, for a doctor."

Jahi "shortly thereafter" suffered a heart attack, the document states, and "fell into a comatose state. ... No one from CHO has explained to (Jahi's mother) why this massive bleeding happened or was allowed to continue to the point where it caused a heart attack and brain damage."

http://www.contracostatimes.com/new...describes-jahi-mcmaths-post-surgical-bleeding


hmmm......so many odd things in here....

 

[Linda7NJ]

also, this is not a blog. This is a peer reviewed article in a medical journal:







See: Cote CJ, Posner KL, Domino KB. Death or Neurologic Injury After Tonsillectomy in Children with a Focus on Obstructive Sleep Apnea: Houston, We Have a Problem! (Anesth Analg 2013 Jul 10). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23842193

Ami wrong or does this have nothing to do with severe hemorrhage?


Oops, never mind. I was wrong. Had to read it like three times...

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[katydid23]

Jahi's mother, Nailah Winkfield, asked for help and was again told the bleeding was normal, and was given paper towels to help clean up. Then, according to the document, "the bleeding intensified to where copious amounts of blood were being expelled from (Jahi's) mouth and then nose."

Another request for help from Jahi's family brought a larger container to collect blood, and, later, a suction device. Jahi's grandmother, herself a nurse, "made multiple requests, and then a loud demand, for a doctor."

Jahi "shortly thereafter" suffered a heart attack, the document states, and "fell into a comatose state. ... No one from CHO has explained to (Jahi's mother) why this massive bleeding happened or was allowed to continue to the point where it caused a heart attack and brain damage."
===============================================

bbm

That sentence makes it sound like the nurse brought a suction device to the family and told them to use it...? I find that very hard to fathom.

 

[katydid23]

Ami wrong or does this have nothing to do with severe hemorrhage?


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the study includes that as one of the several causes of death after the surgery.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I know I read somewhere ...that during the bleeding mom fainted...and there was done talk of her actually being admitted.


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[katydid23]

I know I read somewhere ...that during the bleeding mom fainted...and there was done talk of her actually being admitted.


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Yes, uncle O talks about that. That must have been quite a chaotic scene.