Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #6

[Karmady]

I tried to be very careful in my wording. Notice that I didn't say her end of life needs. IMO, the people being treated and needing care are the living, talking, family members at the bedside, not the shell of a sweet little girl not allowed to go.

I think a mature E.R. doc knows the stages of grief. I believe he can guide them to acceptance if they trust him, which I think they do.
And, since it all started with her, remembrances to Dr. Elisabeth Kubler- Ross for teaching health care professionals what the stages of grief are and how grief is processed ( usually).

So he's acting as a mental health care professional for the family? Do they know that?

eta: I want to add that this isn't directed at you, personally, Jana. I'm sure you're a perfectly lovely compassionate person. And I think this doc probably is, too. I just can't abide what's going on here.

 

[SeekingJana]

So he's acting as a mental health care professional for the family? Do they know that?

Honey, we all should hope to have a doctor with compassion, even if others think it is unwarranted. Proficient health care professionals do administer care which addresses mental health needs. In this case, the family needs help accepting that Jahi is deceased. In other situations, the needs are usually much different.
In this situation, an authority figure which the family respects, trusts, and listens to may be instrumental in them accepting his word that their daughter is dead.

We ALL want the same end goal-- for the circus to leave town and for Jahi's remains to be buried. However, they are in an extremely defensive position emotionally and kindness and compassion will most likely break through their defenses faster than confrontation.

This is no reflection upon the caregivers she had prior to transfer, it is all about the family's perception of them, which is extremely skewed and dysfunctional, IMO.

 

[SeekingJana]

So he's acting as a mental health care professional for the family? Do they know that?

eta: I want to add that this isn't directed at you, personally, Jana. I'm sure you're a perfectly lovely compassionate person. And I think this doc probably is, too. I just can't abide what's going on here.

I understand and I share your frustration and other emotions which can't be voiced too well here. I enjoy posting with you and didn't take it personally.
My reasoning is that blunt doctors really PO'ed this family, so maybe an older, kind doctor who came out of retirement to help THEM ALONE will be the one to break through their defenses and allow Jahi's body to have a proper and beautiful funeral and burial.

:tyou:

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Anyone, or a team of logical thinking professionals, that can be truthful and not mislead the family and help them through the process of acceptance and grief is welcoming IMO.

The others that have done the opposite of the above, or have ill intentions, need to take a endless hike.

 

[SophieRose]

Currently volunteers providing medical care to the homeless. A practicing Catholic, he seems to take his religion seriously.

Article from Dec 2013
http://www.gardnerfamilyhealth.org/_blog/news/post/volunteering-at-gardner-health-services/

Here's more on his volunteering providing medical care to the homeless when he worked for Kaiser.

Article from 2000
http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2000/07/24/editorial4.html

InnVision has been offering medical services in shelters since 1990.

In that year, Dr. David Hammons of Kaiser Permanente started the free medical care program at InnVision's Julian Street Inn. He soon recruited other doctors from Kaiser, and the program grew to receive Kaiser's support. The program continues today with a team of doctors from Kaiser Permanente.

 

[janx]

Angela Clemente found a retired Emergency Med doc from San Jose to "take the case," Dr David Hammons of Kaiser Hospital

http://media.nbcbayarea.com/documents/JahiDeclaration.pdf

OMG !! :scared:

 

[janx]

Angela Clemente found a retired Emergency Med doc from San Jose to "take the case," Dr David Hammons of Kaiser Hospital

http://media.nbcbayarea.com/documents/JahiDeclaration.pdf

Read past the inflated lingo and pretense, please...


Political/religious WAAAHHHH!! :scared:

 

[wendiesan]

snipped by me for focus

Its not just a grief reaction IMO. There are a whole host of other issues IMO.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think one of the fundamental issues that has come up is that sometimes belief and logic are incompatible. This can manifest in different ways. For instance, I believe that a mother "feels" when her children are in danger or are troubled or stressed, and vice versa, no matter where they are geographically. I have lots of anecdotal evidence from my relationship with my darling daughter and my darling son. (Cue X-Files Music). DD once demanded to know just how I knew when to call her since I seemed to find her in the middle of some crisis or other even though she was at a university on the other side of the continent. A few years ago, DS and I called each other upset when we couldn't reach DD because we both felt we had to talk to her right then. It turned out that at the same time, DD was being admitted to the hospital for what turned out to be an ectopic pregnancy. You get the picture. Right or wrong, I believe that if DD or DS died, I would know they were gone even if we were separated by miles. And when I die, I believe that DS and DD will know when I pass no matter the circumstances. No evidence. No logic. I am totally willing to suspend my disbelief, ignore the possibility of coincidence, and hold onto this intangible "proof" of our love for each other. There is no rational basis for any of this.

So, on some level, I can relate to NW's refusal to accept that Jahi is gone because she doesn't feel that the invisible tie between the two of them has been severed. When she touches her baby, she is willing to suspend her belief in the evidence of her physical senses, IMO, because, in this time of extreme stress, NW is searching her inner landscape for evidence of her daughter's absence and not finding it. JMO, but until she can believe that she no longer feels Jahi's spirit, NW will not accept Jahi's death. It wouldn't matter if twenty brilliant neurologists lined up and presented fact after fact after fact. What matters is that ONE neonatal specialist held out a hope that reinforced something she believed. Belief trumps logic in such a stressful situation. JMO.

This is just one issue that I had noticed and wanted to comment on in isolation from the many other issues and arguments swirling around this tragedy. Not sure if this is the sort of thing you were referring to, Linda7NJ.

 

[janx]

I understand and I share your frustration and other emotions which can't be voiced too well here. I enjoy posting with you and didn't take it personally.
My reasoning is that blunt doctors really PO'ed this family, so maybe an older, kind doctor who came out of retirement to help THEM ALONE will be the one to break through their defenses and allow Jahi's body to have a proper and beautiful funeral and burial.

:tyou:

I was thinking along the same lines not too long ago, SJ, but now I'm not so sure. Is this doc going to sweet talk Jahi's mom in the context of her delusion that her daughter is not dead? Is he going to say something like "Upon further prayer and medical knowledge, I am certain that Jahi met her maker at 9:36 tonight..." ?

Additionally, I looked at the cast of characters he is associated with in the list, and while the language is properly inflated in a legal lingo sense, the whole proposal sounds pretty sketchy (as my other comments might illustrate)--the pilot, the Terri Schaivo guy, etc...

But for whatever reason, Jahi's earthly house remains now in the care of these people, no? Was this the document that enabled CHO to relinquish Jahi's body to her family?

 

[Sincerely]

Personally, I believe this is not about acceptance...something happened in that hospital room that they don't want to take blame for possibly. Obviously this is my opinion.

 

[Elley Mae]

Personally, I believe this is not about acceptance...something happened in that hospital room that they don't want to take blame for possibly. Obviously this is my opinion.

It's been my opinion too, since only getting half the story.

 

[Elley Mae]

And?
By the way if the woman is brain dead the law might not even apply because she is legally dead then.
Husband could go to court and argue that. But he hasn't.
I am not even sure if this woman is actually brain dead. Hospital hasn't said anything about her diagnosis, and many in the media don't seem to have a clue what the difference is between being in a coma and being braind dead.

As much as I agree I also think they do know. This is a hot button issue the way it has been reported, they know what they are doing. jmo

 

[Elley Mae]

I just learned of this case today and have to say that I don't find too many reliable narrators in the mix, including the media.

The medical and legal reports seem credible, but there's a lot of missing information--and even more unqualified assumptions being made.

Does anyone else have this impression?

Yes

I'm waiting for them say she has a concussion.

 

[popsicle]

Double Tragedy: Jahi McMath and Children’s Hospital & Research Center Oakland

While tragic for the McMath family, there’s another tragedy in this story and that’s the negative publicity for Children’s Hospital & Research Center Oakland.

As the family tweets about being “free” from Children’s, and the family lawyer talks about all that Children’s withheld from Jahi, a hospital and it’s staff, bound by HIPAA laws stands silently as a smear campaign and inevitably a lawsuit surround them.

http://todaysmama.com/2014/01/42851/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

[CarolinaMoon]

I've given up on discussing the family vs. CHO at this point, but appreciate all comments and respect them all. We all speak from our own unique perspectives on the outcome of Jahi's situation. We all know the basic facts as told by the family. We've had tons of explanation through our medical people here as well as the opportunity to read Dr. Fiori's court filing. Peace to all.

I posted on the very first thread about my now 62-year-old sister's simple tonsillectomy which took place in the late 50's. She was a normal, healthy child who suffered from constant tonsillitis. No ICU's, PICU's back then. She suffered a massive hemorrhage after her "routine" simple tonsillectomy on the second day while my mother was at her bedside. She called the nurse and with proper intervention, survived after two blood transfusions and a week of round-the-clock private-duty nurses at her bedside. If our two neighbors, both RN's hadn't volunteered their time, my parents would have been the ones to watch over her. They never could have afforded the nursing care provided. She came very close to death. Instead of being at her bedside, my mother took care of their children. She saw my sister only for a few minutes every night.

She was diagnosed as being a "bleeder" and has noted such prior to any subsequent surgery.

I am also a "bleeder" and with every little cut or scrape, I bleed like crazy and it takes a lot of pressure and bandages before it stops. All my surgeries, from a detached retina to and excision of a non-cancerous lesion on my tongue, have been in my head. I always inform the surgeon of my "bleeder" status prior to surgery so they can be prepared.

I have been wondering if Jahi is/was a "bleeder" as well.

I would love to have one of our knowledgeable experts chime in explain exactly what "being a bleeder" means.

 

[Elley Mae]

The case of Jahi McMath, the 13-year-old girl who was declared brain-dead after a tonsillectomy at Children's Hospital Oakland, is now the centerpiece of a political fundraising effort aimed at lifting California's $250,000 cap for pain and suffering awards in medical malpractice cases.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/matie...th-case-used-as-Consumer-Watchdog-5123174.php

Consumer Watchdog, a Southern California nonprofit that has teamed up with the state's trial lawyers on a proposed November ballot initiative to lift the limit, just sent out a mailer to supporters saying, "Hospitals like Children's actually have an incentive to let children like Jahi die.

 

[scubadvr99]

Double Tragedy: Jahi McMath and Children’s Hospital & Research Center Oakland



http://todaysmama.com/2014/01/42851/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

What a great story, IMO, this is probably the most accurate portrait of the hospital.

 

[nursebeeme]

The case of Jahi McMath, the 13-year-old girl who was declared brain-dead after a tonsillectomy at Children's Hospital Oakland, is now the centerpiece of a political fundraising effort aimed at lifting California's $250,000 cap for pain and suffering awards in medical malpractice cases.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/matie...th-case-used-as-Consumer-Watchdog-5123174.php

Consumer Watchdog, a Southern California nonprofit that has teamed up with the state's trial lawyers on a proposed November ballot initiative to lift the limit, just sent out a mailer to supporters saying, "Hospitals like Children's actually have an incentive to let children like Jahi die.

:no: .........

 

[Donjeta]

The case of Jahi McMath, the 13-year-old girl who was declared brain-dead after a tonsillectomy at Children's Hospital Oakland, is now the centerpiece of a political fundraising effort aimed at lifting California's $250,000 cap for pain and suffering awards in medical malpractice cases.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/matie...th-case-used-as-Consumer-Watchdog-5123174.php

Consumer Watchdog, a Southern California nonprofit that has teamed up with the state's trial lawyers on a proposed November ballot initiative to lift the limit, just sent out a mailer to supporters saying, "Hospitals like Children's actually have an incentive to let children like Jahi die.

What does this mean?

"Oakland Children's Hospital is going to be a poster child for reform, because we have seen other cases where there is the same lack of transparency and accountability when it comes to the death of a child," Court told us.

The family has not authorized the release of her medical records so how could there possibly be transparency? Accountability may come later, I understand that Jahi's death is being investigated, and things may come out at the court when it's time.
JMO.

 

[SugarQueen]

The case of Jahi McMath, the 13-year-old girl who was declared brain-dead after a tonsillectomy at Children's Hospital Oakland, is now the centerpiece of a political fundraising effort aimed at lifting California's $250,000 cap for pain and suffering awards in medical malpractice cases.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/matie...th-case-used-as-Consumer-Watchdog-5123174.php

Consumer Watchdog, a Southern California nonprofit that has teamed up with the state's trial lawyers on a proposed November ballot initiative to lift the limit, just sent out a mailer to supporters saying, "Hospitals like Children's actually have an incentive to let children like Jahi die.

:banghead: there is nothing I can say that won't get me slapped at least twice by mods. Turning a child's life and death into this circus is just disgusting. Saying the hospital has an incentive to let children die?!!!!! I just can't....