Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #6

[txsvicki]

Hah, I guess $250,000 doesn't make a very good fee in the end, and no need for attorneys. On the other hand, having such a low cap on a child's death in cases where there is true negligence isn't much.

 

[Sedonia Sunset]

It took me FOREVER to catch up to you people.

I am overweight and I recently had a c-section. Because of my weight, post surgical dvt was a concern, so they gave me prophylactic heparin.

That would explain how she bled out so fast.... jmo.

Congrats on the baby!

I've been wondering about what medication Jahi may have taken before the surgery that may have contributed to the massive bleeding. I know that I sometimes take ibuprofen or other pain relieve ahead of doing something that I expect to hurt (I expect to hurt EVERY day, but some things will absolutely make things worse than usual). I don't know if NSAIDs would have shown up in any testing the hospital would have done before the surgery or after her demise, but it's certainly a possibility. From everything I've read (mostly here), the kind of bleedout she appears to have had IS a known possibility with tonsil surgery, but it could have been harder to stop if she had taken ibuprofen or another NSAID before surgery, either on her own or suggested by someone to her.

I doubt a 13-yr-old would be able to grasp the importance of NOT taking NSAIDS for at least a week beforehand. I say that because I had been so sure I only had to wait 4 days before a (needle punch) breast biopsy was done. I was all set to go, and the small room was crowded with observing interns and others (I suspected that the grapevine told them that there was a wicked-cool lump about to be seen in that room -- it was multi-chambered, so it looked like a 3-armed octopus on the monitor; maybe it was a good teaching moment). When the doctor, instrument in hand, asked me when the last time was that I had taken any NSAIDs and I said it had been 4 days earlier, they stopped it cold, right then and there (the crowd quickly dissipated with an air of disappointment). The doctor explained that there was a possibility of a of more than a little internal bleeding due to the blood-thinning effect. She thought it would probably be okay, but did not want to take a chance.

When the rescheduled biopsy was done, they had to take SIX punctures/samples! Fortunately it was benign, but the lesson about NSAIDs stuck with me.

 

[Elley Mae]

IDK maybe it's me, but the way I read this 250,000.00 medical malpractice it's for the injured victim, not a brain dead person. idk jmo

 

[Isabelle]

I applaud Dr. Hammons for providing support during this tragic and painful time. As an RN, I would be willing to help in a similar situation. No, I wouldn't be promoting the falsehood that with proper care the patient will recover and I wouldn't be promoting that she is still alive. I would be providing support for the family and care and monitoring to assure the body of the child is respected. As a professional, I would not be able to turn my back from those in need.

 

[Isabelle]

Does California have a peer review required for malpractice cases? We have that in Louisiana and if the doctor's peers don't agree that malpractice is a factor, the law suit cannot be filed.

 

[Harmony 2]

Good morning fellow sleuthers... :loveyou:

friendly reminder: if you have a problem with a post use the ALERT BUTTON (do not respond)

 

[Donjeta]

:banghead: there is nothing I can say that won't get me slapped at least twice by mods. Turning a child's life and death into this circus is just disgusting. Saying the hospital has an incentive to let children die?!!!!! I just can't....

So are they saying they think that CHO let Jahi become brain dead on purpose?

It seems rather early imo to be complaining about lack of accountability when she has been dead a few days short of a month and her death certificate still lacks cause of death. I'm not in favor of hanging anyone until it is known why she died.

Oh, I guess they don't understand that she is dead and does not breathe.

Court's reply: The heartless ones in this case are the hospital executives who "call a patient who is breathing a corpse in order to vindicate themselves."

 

[Donjeta]

Jewish religious perspective (questions)

http://www.jewishjournal.com/religiousandreform/item/where_are_you_jahi_mcmath

My question is this: Where is Jahi now? I’m not asking where her family has taken her body. I’m asking about the whereabouts of Jahi’s spirit – the essence of who she is. Where is it now?

The Talmud says, when a new person is created, the mother and father supply the different parts of the body, such as the bones, the flesh, and the whites and dark of the eyes. It is God, however, who supplies things like the understanding and the animation to the face. In other words, the parents provide the person’s body, but God provides the spirit. When the person dies, the Talmud says, the parts the mother and father provided remain on earth, while the parts supplied by God return to God.

So, while Jahi’s body remains on a ventilator, has her spirit returned to God? Or is it stuck in some kind of purgatory while her body remains in a state of unrest?

I ask this because there’s a tradition in Judaism that says a person’s spirit, understandably, has a great fondness and feeling of closeness with his/her former body, which housed the spirit while the spirit was on earth. As a result, and perhaps because it can be so difficult for us to let go of the things we love, the spirit hovers near the body until the body is put to rest.

This is one of the reasons we take such pains to be respectful to a person’s body while we wash and dress it, and place it in the coffin. It is why we apologize to the dead person afterward, asking them to forgive us if, during the process, we have caused any offense. It is one of the reasons why someone stays with the body until burial, reading psalms to comfort the spirit hovering nearby.

So, where is Jahi’s spirit now? Is she free to return to God, or is she stuck in this world, hovering near the body, waiting for a burial that may yet be months in coming?

 

[BeginnersLuck]

What does this mean?



The family has not authorized the release of her medical records so how could there possibly be transparency? Accountability may come later, I understand that Jahi's death is being investigated, and things may come out at the court when it's time.
JMO.

They sure do want to get the ball rolling before CHO has the opportunity to speak on what happened with Jahi, if they ever can.

I read the beautiful post by the mother about the loving care that she and her child received and I could not bear to read another slam article about CHO. When I say CHO, I mean their entire staff because that is who is being slammed by the players and the media here. The people that save countless lives and care for countless children. The people who get up and go to work everyday and use their loving, god given hands, to treat and heal all of these children and yes, try to save them. The people that spent countless hours/years to obtain the knowledge so that their loving hands could do what they are doing. They have feelings to and they comfort and cry and smile with families.

Since when is CHO the only hospital in the nation in which people die of complications? It's clearly not, or there would be no need for surgeons or staff to explain that there are risks with every surgery. Most level headed people realize and accept this. This "campaign" is not made up of level headed people though. It is comprised of those with alternate agendas.

To those that have common sense and are able to not be so easily influenced by the media, these players are a joke.

I do my best to maintain sympathy for Jahi's mother. Anger is part of grief and she has suffered a tremendous loss. She is being influenced by those with alternate agendas. They are not holding her hand they are pulling her behind them. My sympathy stops there as it pertains to others.

Those surrounding Jahi's mother, that care and love for her, should have taken the bull by the horns a month ago. The fact that they didn't speaks volumes to me.

 

[Minette]

Hey, did y'all read through the declaration of Dr. Paul Byrne attached to the legal papers prepared by Angela Counts describing their care team? He stated under oath that he has seen patients recover from brain dead and go on to recover to various extents, including one who finished school and got married.

He is literally claiming resurrection from brain death! That man is cuckoo in his cocoa puffs! (IMO)

 

[Elley Mae]

If a law suit comes out of this are ALL of jahi's medical records then allowed in as evidence or just that days events?

 

[lisser]

I've been trying to follow along but these threads are moving so fast, and I don't get too much time online to catch up. I'm not sure if this question has been asked and or answered already, so please forgive me for reiterating if it has...

The consensus seems to be that although Jahi's heart is still beating and she is being provided oxygen from the vent, her body is starting to deteriorate rapidly. Would this not also be happening to the pregnant woman in Texas? If so, how is it possible that her body would not become too toxic to maintain the fetus until viability?

I don't understand how Jahi can be decomposing, yet the pg woman can be maintained until the fetus can be delivered?

And how, the woman in Texas is being referred to as being "kept alive" yet Jahi is being referred to as "dead".

 

[Karmady]

If a law suit comes out of this are ALL of jahi's medical records then allowed in as evidence or just that days events?

Everything that's relevant will come in, subject to some limitations (e.g. if it's duplicative). Including prior medical history to the extent it was relevant to the procedures performed. Also, the hospital will probably get all of her prior medical records to the extent they could lead to the discovery of admissible evidence. So they will see them (if they haven't already), even if they're not admissible or made public. Sorry, these principles are too general/broad for me to find a link, so take it fwiw. But I'm generally referring to the Rules of Evidence and the Rules of Discovery, which can be found in the Rules of Civil Procedure applicable in any State. Those rules are pretty uniform from place to place and court to court.jmo

 

[Elley Mae]

If I am not mistaken the life support afforded to the texas woman is solely for the fetus, not so much for her because she is brain dead. I could be and probably will be wrong but life support will be turned off after the fetus comes to term/is born. The fight is texas law that because she is pregnant and so far along that every effort must be made to save the baby. Mean while because she had shared with her husband and family her wishes to not be kept alive they are trying to honor her wishes. idk jmo It's a sad story all around.

 

[ferretnurse]

Good morning everyone. I've been following this case from the start, just realized there are threads here. I had a tonsillectomy at 26, and I had polyps removed from my sinuses at 27. When I was in the first stage recovery room, they gave me cherry water ice, so a popsicle isn't abnormal as far as I know. They encouraged cold stuff (had a slurpee at home later) to constrict the blood vessels and slow bleeding. I wanted to say, both surgeries were hard to recover from, as an adult.

Also, I used to really sympathize with the family, but that's diminished in the past couple weeks. I'm sorry if I offend anyone, but I'm feeling like they are doing this out of guilt, at this point. They talked her into elective (for her, my tonsillectomy was medically necessary) surgery, and then didn't follow post op instructions, from what I read. I never worked in the or or pacu, but I did do peds, and some parents do things they're instructed not to, because they feel that they know their child. This time, it may have had catastrophic results.

 

[NevadaMom]

So, I have to share this story with all of you, because I know most of you will appreciate it.

Someone (Beginner’s Luck?) had an excellent post about the general public having a short attention span, and not actually reading articles, just relying on sound bites and headlines. This is a perfect example.

I was at my daughter’s sport practice this evening, waiting to pick her up. There was a group of parents there, on the wifi, chatting about the top news stories and scrolling around on iPads and phones. This is the conversation I overheard between 2 moms. I happen to know both of these moms are college educated at the bachelor's degree level.

Mom 1: OMG—can you believe that the girl in California, the one with brain damage from the tonsillectomy—now her ventilator is broken! It says the experts say her ventilator won’t work indefinitely! Why can’t she get another ventilator? Won’t her insurance pay for it? OMG—the hospital is so cruel! First they cause brain damage—and now they can’t get her a new ventilator.

Mom 2: I know—I saw that, too. Maybe she is on medicare (KZ note--medicare? LOL!), and she can’t qualify for a new ventilator. Does she really need it? Maybe they can just give her more oxygen, or something?

Mom 1: I don’t know, but it sounds really bad. Maybe some charity can donate a new ventilator.

I cross my heart that I DID NOT make this up. I pinky swear. And I did not say one single word to either Mom1 or Mom2. This, fellow posters, is a random slice of America. This is the tide we are trying to hold back with our brooms. IMO, JMO, and all that.

:facepalm:

:banghead:

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

I can't take the stupid sometimes. I type this from my own iPad with my iPhone next to me, both of which I use regularly for researching things I don't know, or want to have very detailed information on. This case has caused me to look up quite a lot of both medical and legal definitions/laws/rules too.

 

[Donjeta]

I've been trying to follow along but these threads are moving so fast, and I don't get too much time online to catch up. I'm not sure if this question has been asked and or answered already, so please forgive me for reiterating if it has...

The consensus seems to be that although Jahi's heart is still beating and she is being provided oxygen from the vent, her body is starting to deteriorate rapidly. Would this not also be happening to the pregnant woman in Texas? If so, how is it possible that her body would not become too toxic to maintain the fetus until viability?

I don't understand how Jahi can be decomposing, yet the pg woman can be maintained until the fetus can be delivered?

And how, the woman in Texas is being referred to as being "kept alive" yet Jahi is being referred to as "dead".

JMO but it is far from certain that they can maintain the pregnant woman's systems long enough that the fetus is viable. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

But I think there probably is an important difference between her and Jahi in that CHO only maintained the status quo and didn't load her with all the possible drugs and nutrients to keep her body as homeostatic as possible, as they weren't trying to save her life. , Doctors who are trying to save the life of a fetus will use more heroic measures to keep everything going.

 

[Herat]

her surgery was not inordinately complicated or risky.

I completely disagree with this statement.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Hey, did y'all read through the declaration of Dr. Paul Byrne attached to the legal papers prepared by Angela Counts describing their care team? He stated under oath that he has seen patients recover from brain dead and go on to recover to various extents, including one who finished school and got married.

He is literally claiming resurrection from brain death! That man is cuckoo in his cocoa puffs! (IMO)

Reading that last night was another thing that upset me, because the language in it's entirety, is so far from the truth it is disgusting.

At least the court only acted on the part that would allow a successful transfer out of CHO. The courts ruling IMO, was in the best interest of CHO's staff and patients. I cringe to think of what would have occurred had they ruled otherwise, placing CHO in the position to remove the vent. Oh...the frenzy.....

Dolan has spoke of death threats from their end, but I'm sure CHO has received their fair share of the same and they have a huge building of patients and staff to try and keep safe. The uncle spoke in the press conference, prompted by Dolan, about the family having to wear badges and he felt like they were being discriminated against. I think not!!! There was/is major safety concerns!!

 

[jjenny]

If I am not mistaken the life support afforded to the texas woman is solely for the fetus, not so much for her because she is brain dead. I could be and probably will be wrong but life support will be turned off after the fetus comes to term/is born. The fight is texas law that because she is pregnant and so far along that every effort must be made to save the baby. Mean while because she had shared with her husband and family her wishes to not be kept alive they are trying to honor her wishes. idk jmo It's a sad story all around.

Yes, the life support is for the fetus. TX isn't going to keep a brain dead woman on life support unless the woman is pregnant.
It is a sad story but while I believe the woman didn't want to be on life support, I don't think she ever said she wouldn't want to be on life support even if she was pregnant. My understand this was a child both of them wanted to have.