Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #7

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
BeginnersLuck said:
I just don't see how a coroner would be able to obtain a lot of information from autopsy, after so much time has passed. There is no telling what all they are doing with her, other than what has been reported, which includes invasive surgical procedures. Basically, the evidence is/has been tampered with or destroyed so to speak. IMO
Click to expand...

The autopsy is to establish fact. Fact of what is there and fact of what isn't there.

No more, no less.
 
BeginnersLuck said:
I just don't see how a coroner would be able to obtain a lot of information from autopsy, after so much time has passed. There is no telling what all they are doing with her, other than what has been reported, which includes invasive surgical procedures. Basically, the evidence is/has been tampered with or destroyed so to speak. IMO
Click to expand...

Would sure like to know the legalities of bringing some kind of malpractice suit when an autopsy has been extremely delayed. Aside from the autopsy, the only things left are Jahi's medical records, the family's testimony, and maybe testimony from any other witnesses. I guess? I am definitely not a lawyer!
 
BeginnersLuck said:
I had this thought that maybe there was a quiet settlement in court as far as medical malpractice. Even if there was a malpractice settlement, there may still be other lawsuits to come from other angles. Could a settlement be kept under raps if that did happen?
Click to expand...

I believe Mr. Dolan has indicated several times that they will not likely pursue malpractice, alone, but some variation of wrongful death, violation of religious rights, probably a list of 47+ grievances they can come up with.

Whether any of them actually can be supported by fact is another question entirely. Dolan may not have to prove as much did happen as CHO has to prove what didn't happen. This is kind of key to thinking about the case.

An out of court settlement is always on the table, and I'm sure Dolan would be more than willing to negotiate one for the highest price possible. However, usually one of the terms of these settlements is non-disclosure of the terms: ie: the amount of settlement. Not that the information doesn't get out one way or another. There are family members that, to me (JMO) cannot possibly be relied upon to comply with a non-disclosure agreement, especially if the terms end up being substantially less than they thought they were getting.

I'll leave it up to you to fill in the blanks on that one.
 
ItsJustaName said:
It may be in the Omari interview.
Click to expand...


I've seen OS's comments about the family having to use the suction device - that they are not hospital employee's and that no one was around. No where have I read any statement from the family indicated a CHO employee instructed and requested they use the suction device on Jahi, or Jahi use one on herself.


AFAIK, it is speculation at this point that any employee instructed and requested the family to use the suction device.


If anyone finds a link indicating a statement made by Jahi's family stated a hospital employee instructed/requested to use the suction device on Jahi, please post it.

tia!
 
Could Jahi have had central apnea in addition to obstructive apnea ?

Were the NPO instructions after midnight the night before followed ? (I wouldn't be shocked if they weren't) ?

Could Jahi have been diagnosed with any congenital anomalies prior to the procedure which would have put her at higher risk of post-op complications ? Did she have any behavioural/cognitive, executive functioning issues (unrelated to the apnea) which may have pre-disposed her to a negative outcome ? If she had behavioural/cognitive issues, getting her to comply with pre/post op instructions would be challenging. Speaking from experience, getting our son to understand that he must be NPO from midnight until he goes into the OR (and sometimes several hours while in PACU), is quite the challenge. It is quite obvious that Jahi liked to eat - a lot. I can only imagine how challenging it would have been to keep her from eating for several hours, especially if her OR time was later in the day.


How many family members were with JAHI in PACU ?

My son has severe multiple congenital anomalies and requires a twice yearly trip to the OR under GA. Usually one person is allowed in our PACU, but they have been flexible with us due to the life threatening nature of DS condition (each time could be the last). I can't see her Mom, Dad, Grandmother, and Uncle all being in there - makes it difficult for staff to do their job and also places other patients at risk.

Did she code in the PACU and was subsequently transferred to PICU once stabilized ?

Given the multiple procedures performed in the OR it isn't unreasonable to assume that Jahi may have been vomiting blood. That is what first comes to mind when hearing a Nurse said 'It was normal'. It isn't highly unusually to have a patient vomit in PACU - especially if NPO wasn't followed.

We have suctioned DS in PACU but that is only because his orofacial anatomy is atypical and most nurses are unfamiliar with how to work with him while he is combative without jeopardizing his airway. IMO, Grandma was a little overconfident in her own skills and didn't just step up - she stepped over the line, kwim ?
 
Nurses told her "it was normal," according to her attorney's account. They gave Winkfield a container to capture the copious amounts of blood coming from her girl's mouth and nose. Winkfield asked for a doctor, but was only given a bigger container and a suction device.

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking...izations-jahis-condition-ignites-insane-legal

I doubt that any ICU nurse would tell a parent to use a suctioning device on a patient.
 
Herat said:
I believe Mr. Dolan has indicated several times that they will not likely pursue malpractice, alone, but some variation of wrongful death, violation of religious rights, probably a list of 47+ grievances they can come up with.

Whether any of them actually can be supported by fact is another question entirely. Dolan may not have to prove as much did happen as CHO has to prove what didn't happen. This is kind of key to thinking about the case.

An out of court settlement is always on the table, and I'm sure Dolan would be more than willing to negotiate one for the highest price possible. However, usually one of the terms of these settlements is non-disclosure of the terms: ie: the amount of settlement. Not that the information doesn't get out one way or another. There are family members that, to me (JMO) cannot possibly be relied upon to comply with a non-disclosure agreement, especially if the terms end up being substantially less than they thought they were getting.

I'll leave it up to you to fill in the blanks on that one.
Click to expand...

No discussion of medical malpractice or stating it won't be pursued adds another piece to the puzzle for me. Adding that to what has/hasn't been said and the anger directed at the chief of peds and not the staff or surgeon tells me something as well. I get the impression that the family and the hospital already know the COD. I don't think that the family will want this made public.

When I was thinking on the lines of the possibility of CHO reaching some sort of financial agreement in court, I was thinking about this being done to get them on their way, so to speak. Not that they were admitting or accepting liability. Of course, speculation there was anything monetary provided, is just speculation on my part.
 
BeginnersLuck said:
No discussion of medical malpractice or stating it won't be pursued adds another piece to the puzzle for me. Adding that to what has/hasn't been said and the anger directed at the chief of peds and not the staff or surgeon tells me something as well. I get the impression that the family and the hospital already know the COD. I don't think that the family will want this made public.

When I was thinking on the lines of the possibility of CHO reaching some sort of financial agreement in court, I was thinking about this being done to get them on their way, so to speak. Not that they were admitting or accepting liability. Of course, speculation there was anything monetary provided, is just speculation on my part.
Click to expand...

It's not that they won't also pursue medical malpractice, it's that there is a $250K cap on damages for that charge, and Dolan has already stated he is after $33 million......+.

It's all about money. Never forget that.
 
Elley Mae said:
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/12/22/us/judge-orders-girl-be-kept-on-ventilator.html?from=health

With her family and hospital staff members trying to help and comfort her, Jahi bled profusely for the next few hours and then went into cardiac arrest, her mother said.

bbm It appears that this went on for longer then I had previously thought. Hours?
Click to expand...

As others have indicated some post op bleed with this procedure is normal. (correct me if I'm wrong)

It sounds like minor post op bleeding has been exaggerated into hours of profuse bleeding. What seems more logical was that there was minor bleeding and then suddenly (for whatever reason) she started to hemorrhage.
 
BeginnersLuck said:
No discussion of medical malpractice or stating it won't be pursued adds another piece to the puzzle for me. Adding that to what has/hasn't been said and the anger directed at the chief of peds and not the staff or surgeon tells me something as well. I get the impression that the family and the hospital already know the COD. I don't think that the family will want this made public.

When I was thinking on the lines of the possibility of CHO reaching some sort of financial agreement in court, I was thinking about this being done to get them on their way, so to speak. Not that they were admitting or accepting liability. Of course, speculation there was anything monetary provided, is just speculation on my part.
Click to expand...

BBM - I agree with both of your BBM statements and recall one the the CHO reps saying something to the effects of: We look forward to a full and thorough investigation into the circumstances surrounding the death and discussing it with the public if possible.

[I've tried to find that quote and haven't been able to yet. Do others remember the CHO reps statements or can link to that exact quote and/or video. TIA]
 
Herat said:
It's not that they won't also pursue medical malpractice, it's that there is a $250K cap on damages for that charge, and Dolan has already stated he is after $33 million......+.

It's all about money. Never forget that.
Click to expand...

They will try to argue that she is not deceased and sue for this continued care. IMO

They will try to sue from all other angles based on what ones they feel they can get the highest settlement, due to no caps. IMO
 
I was just paying bills and realized the date. This has been going on for way too long. There is really no point to my post other then. To wish Jahi peace. I can't believe this poor child hasn't been put to rest yet.
 
http://news.kron4.com/news/jahi-mcmath-doctor-releases-statement-following-meeting-with-family/

snipped

We want the public to know that the family has not permitted us to discuss the medical situation. We are unable–without the family’s permission–to talk about the medical procedure, background or any of the details that are a part of this tragedy. Details that would provide transparency, openness and provide answers to the public about this situation.
 
popsicle said:
Personally, I think it doesn't matter what the grandmothers scope of practice is or where she works. She was not Jahi's nurse and therefor should not have been doing any medical treatments on her. imo
Click to expand...

ITA but legally it matters very much. A non-medical person can claim ignorance of the harm they could cause by doing what they saw the RN do. A licensed healthcare provider cannot. It's one thing to go above and beyond your scope of practice in a life and death emergency when nobody qualified is around to do the life saving procedure. That can't be claimed in a hospital where qualified practitioners are a call button away and within eyesight of the patient.
 
Elley Mae said:
http://news.kron4.com/news/jahi-mcmath-doctor-releases-statement-following-meeting-with-family/

snipped

We want the public to know that the family has not permitted us to discuss the medical situation. We are unable–without the family’s permission–to talk about the medical procedure, background or any of the details that are a part of this tragedy. Details that would provide transparency, openness and provide answers to the public about this situation.
Click to expand...

Thanks Elley Mae!

Here's the full statement from CHO:
The following is the statement from Durand:

December 19, 2013

Our hearts go out to the family and friends of Jahi McMath. This is a tragic situation.

We want the public to know that the family has not permitted us to discuss the medical situation. We are unable–without the family’s permission–to talk about the medical procedure, background or any of the details that are a part of this tragedy. Details that would provide transparency, openness and provide answers to the public about this situation.

We implore the family to allow the hospital to openly discuss what has occurred and to give us the necessary legal permission–which it has been withholding–that would bring clarity, and we believe, some measure of closure and deeper understanding of this medical case.

Many of the statements made by the family and its attorney must be taken in the context that they will not allow CHO to discuss the case and provide the information necessary for there to be a fuller understanding.

David Durand, M.D.
Chief of Pediatrics
Children’s Hospital & Research Center Oakland​
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Fairfield County Jane Doe (1993)?

Members online

... and 78 more.
Total: 254 (members: 79, guests: 175)

Online statistics

Members online
79
Guests online
175
Total visitors
254
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
608,832
Messages
18,246,192
Members
234,462
Latest member
Kajal
Back
Top