FBI considering hate crime charges against Zimmerman #1

[cityslick]

Are you serious? He really had the audacity to hose children down while they were riding their bikes? Was this information from a previous article?



my opinion

No it's a rumor and unless there is some link that verifies that it actually happened, it should be continued to be thought of as such.

 

[Karmady]

I see. So the crime never happened then.

The op's point was the george was a criminal based on the charges in that case. The op also, apparently, was based on the belief that misdemeanor charges were the end of the matter and either didn't know, or didn't appreciate the significance of, the dismissal of the charges entirely. Which is the same as if they had never been brought. So yes, George is not a "criminal" based on that case.

And, afaik, George always maintained that he did not commit a crime.

If the op had just been something like "imo, George committed a crime against the undercover police officer" then we wouldn't be having this discussion. But it wasn't. It was based on the erroneous "fact" of a non-existent misdemeanor conviction.jmo

 

[persnickety]

The op's point was the george was a criminal based on the charges in that case. The op also, apparently, was based on the belief that misdemeanor charges were the end of the matter and either didn't know, or didn't appreciate the significance of, the dismissal of the charges entirely. Which is the same as if they had never been brought. So yes, George is not a "criminal" based on that case.

And, afaik, George always maintained that he did not commit a crime.

If the op had just been something like "imo, George committed a crime against the undercover police officer" then we wouldn't be having this discussion. But it wasn't. It was based on the erroneous "fact" of a non-existent misdemeanor conviction.jmo

So he just up and decided to take an anger management class on his own free will?


IMO

 

[LynnM]

You know, we KEEP hearing about how the ONLY think suspicious to GZ was TM's color. This COULD NOT BE more false. GZ was in his car, on the phone with the police when TM walked up to the car, stared at GZ, and took off running.

Sorry, black white or green, since when is a teenager staring at you then taking off running NOT suspicious?

As you wrote, he was already on the phone with the dispatcher when that supposedly happened. IMO it's NOT the least bit suspicious. If Trayvon had been up to no good, say burglarizing houses with the tools and the loot in his pockets, he would just have run if he saw a car stopped to watch him, he wouldn't have needed to go up to it and see who was there.

A more plausible explanation is that Trayvon saw that a car had been following him and the occupant appeared to be stopped and watching him approach and he wondered if he knew the person. Upon seeing a stranger, he became alarmed and ran.

IMO opinion, Zimmerman himself must have realized how thin his story sounded because although he said no such thing to the dispatcher, he later told police that Trayvon actually circled his car, alarming him so much that he put up his window.

 

[Karmady]

So he just up and decided to take an anger management class on his own free will?


IMO

Yes, actually. That's exactly what he did. People charged with crimes they didn't commit often take the easy road just to get the whole mess over with. And the prosecutor and the courts count on it. Like I said when this first came up, diversion is a money maker where the prosecutor has a crappy case. jmo

 

[LynnM]

No it's a rumor and unless there is some link that verifies that it actually happened, it should be continued to be thought of as such.

Here's the link. The information comes from Austin, a 16 year old boy who mows the Zimmerman grass and who likes George. GZ hosed down boys who he thought were bullies.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/u...rompts-a-review-of-ideals.html?pagewanted=all

 

[Lovelymountains]

Bingo! And , only when asked...GZ "I think he is Black." Was GZ even sure of his race? Interesting.

Neither is profiling and GZ should face NO hate charges since his words were no more than TM's words.

IMO it isn't his words which got him in trouble. After all, the First Amendment, and etc. It was his actions--killing a young black man---after saying those words. There's the crime.

 

[4Jacy]

Ahh... hosing the children on bikes. This was discussed at length quite some ago. It didnt' end well.

As the story goes, a child was being bullied by others and Zimmerman hosed the alleged bullies down every time they rode their bikes on the sidewalk in front of his house.

Again, taking matters into his own hands! If he had called LE they could have handled it and I'm sure the bullies would be more scared if a uniformed officer talked with them rather then a little guy with a hose (which I'm sure was a game for the bullies).

 

[Lovelymountains]

Here's the link. The information comes from Austin, a 16 year old boy who mows the Zimmerman grass and who likes George. GZ hosed down boys who he thought were bullies.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/u...rompts-a-review-of-ideals.html?pagewanted=all

Another indication of GZ's propensity to take things into his own hands. In fact, directing a forceful stream of water from a hose onto a child on a bicycle could cause them to fall over, break an arm, a leg, or even a NOSE.If anyone ever did that to one of my children, They would see LE at their door in short order. Maybe if people had called George on his behavior prior to the murder, TM would be alive today.

 

[LynnM]

Yes, actually. That's exactly what he did. People charged with crimes they didn't commit often take the easy road just to get the whole mess over with. And the prosecutor and the courts count on it. Like I said when this first came up, diversion is a money maker where the prosecutor has a crappy case. jmo

That's not how diversion works in my state. IMO, it is a genuine attempt to get people back on track by giving them a second chance and avoiding their acquiring a criminal record that might hinder getting employment. I evaluated our state's diversion program a few years ago. It had a low recidivism rate which I think is encouraging. I think it helps that the program is provisional; people in the program know that if there's a second charge within the year which results in a conviction, they will also be prosecuted on the first charge as well. If someone can stay out of trouble for a year there's a good chance he'll continue to do so.

As I recall, a significant number of the cases involved shoplifters caught leaving the store with items they didn't pay for in their pockets or purses. There were also first time assault cases where it was felt that the defendant might not repeat the offense if they attended anger management classes. Reading the reports, it didn't seem to me that diversion was being offered because of weak cases. It's not a money maker for the state; there are no fees paid to the state and the anger management courses are offered by non-profit organizations (some require fees and some with grants don't). It does save the state the cost of prosecution but not the cost of probation.

 

[Lovelymountains]

Are you serious? He really had the audacity to hose children down while they were riding their bikes? Was this information from a previous article?



my opinion

Yes. The article is linked by a kind poster above.

 

[suzihawk]

Yes, actually. That's exactly what he did. People charged with crimes they didn't commit often take the easy road just to get the whole mess over with. And the prosecutor and the courts count on it. Like I said when this first came up, diversion is a money maker where the prosecutor has a crappy case. jmo

How is it that poor George keeps getting charged for crimes he didn't commit? I don't think anger management is going get him off the hook this time. As a matter of fact, apparently it didn't work the last time either.

FTR, I don't believe for one second that he took a plea for a crime he didn't commit. But that's just my opinion. YMMV

JMO IMO MOO

 

[cityslick]

Here's the link. The information comes from Austin, a 16 year old boy who mows the Zimmerman grass and who likes George. GZ hosed down boys who he thought were bullies.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/u...rompts-a-review-of-ideals.html?pagewanted=all

Funny how the same kid thinks of him as a role model:

It seemed in character. A 16-year-old boy named Austin, who for a long time has mowed the lawn at the Zimmerman home in Lake Mary, described George Zimmerman as a role model for younger boys, often providing advice while throwing a football around or shooting hoops.

 

[LambChop]

Yes, actually. That's exactly what he did. People charged with crimes they didn't commit often take the easy road just to get the whole mess over with. And the prosecutor and the courts count on it. Like I said when this first came up, diversion is a money maker where the prosecutor has a crappy case. jmo

Oh, but he did admit it and freely admits it now if you are claiming he was innocent. His story is that the officer did not identify himself to GZ so GZ interferred and pushed the officer. GZ had no right to push, touch, proke anyone. The arrest was being made by an ATF officer for a person accused of underage drinking. GZ did not bother to ask what was going on just inserted himself and ended up pushing the officer. I bet that ATF agent now regrets letting GZ off so easily. jmo

 

[Lovelymountains]

Not any different than a white girl scared of a black man following her in the dark. Do you think that is because of stereotype or what is portrayed in the news when they report crime?

IMO a girl of any race would be alarmed to be followed by a man of any race on a dark night.

 

[cityslick]

Oh, but he did admit it and freely admits it now if you are claiming he was innocent. His story is that the officer did not identify himself to GZ so GZ interferred and pushed the officer. GZ had no right to push, touch, proke anyone. The arrest was being made by an ATF officer for a person accused of underage drinking. GZ did not bother to ask what was going on just inserted himself and ended up pushing the officer. I bet that ATF agent now regrets letting GZ off so easily. jmo

Most 21 year old guys who see one of their friends in the middle of something are going to stick up for their friend first before the questions come.

What does the ATF agent have to do with a hate crime btw?

 

[zenreaper]

nah its not sarcasm.... Im really wondering how gz can identify the color of Trayvons pants, color of his shoes, color of his hoodie, and a hand in the waistband....yet you state.....but not the color of his skin...
im also wondering where this proof is that Trayvon came all the way up to gzs car....

Simple, when viewing a person wearing a hoodie from the side, you cannot see their face. His arms and legs were covered by clothing as well. It was not until he turned to GZ that he SAW some skin. The color of the clothing was not covered. Seriously, PICTURE someone in a full outfit, with a hoodie covering their head and a hand tucked into their waistband. Not tell me, what color is their skin? You don't know, because you cannot tell.

 

[Karmady]

That's not how diversion works in my state. IMO, it is a genuine attempt to get people back on track by giving them a second chance and avoiding their acquiring a criminal record that might hinder getting employment. I evaluated our state's diversion program a few years ago. It had a low recidivism rate which I think is encouraging. I think it helps that the program is provisional; people in the program know that if there's a second charge within the year which results in a conviction, they will also be prosecuted on the first charge as well. If someone can stay out of trouble for a year there's a good chance he'll continue to do so.

As I recall, a significant number of the cases involved shoplifters caught leaving the store with items they didn't pay for in their pockets or purses. There were also first time assault cases where it was felt that the defendant might not repeat the offense if they attended anger management classes. Reading the reports, it didn't seem to me that diversion was being offered because of weak cases. It's not a money maker for the state; there are no fees paid to the state and the anger management courses are offered by non-profit organizations (some require fees and some with grants don't). It does save the state the cost of prosecution but not the cost of probation.

Unfortunately, I think the more general topic is o/t for this thread. I have very strong opinions about diversion programs, including a different interpretation of why the recidivism rate is so low and who all profits and how (btw, there are PLENTY of court fees paid directly to the State just for charging the crime and implementing the diversion). Maybe we'll get a general discussion thread back some day.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Most 21 year old guys who see one of their friends in the middle of something are going to stick up for their friend first before the questions come.

What does the ATF agent have to do with a hate crime btw?

A propensity to perceive an injustice or crime when there is none and then act to correct it. That is the kind of stuff the FBI will look at.

It was not an ATF agent if I remember right it was a Florida State Trooper working with ATF and his friend was handcuffed sitting down on the ground with others who were arrested.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I read that flyer he wrote and it was several pages long and really was pretty well thought out and it made me think this was not the first time George stepped into something like that. I wonder if the FBI has found any other writings he has done on injustices?