Thanks, I'd just read this bombshell and it explains so much about why their online records about Champlain Towers are so confusing to decipher, for both laypeople and subject matter experts alike. The article also indicates that a former town manager recommended "in recent years for most of the [building department's] functions to be outsourced to the county." What a cluster... (MOO, of course)
FL- 12 Story Condo Partial Building Collapse, many still unaccounted for, Miami, 24 June 2021 #2
- Thread starter IceIce9
- Start date
- Status
SuziQ
Former Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2007
- Messages
- 39,600
- Reaction score
- 52,016
And Surfside officials wonder why they have been shut out of the investigation? I wouldn't let any of them near any evidence.
What?! This is crazy!
Last edited:
SDS71 I imagined phone lines would have flames on them last night after the shocking information hit the local news. It is odd for the words "may have recently entered the storage facility where the town stores building records." Oddly vague use of words, making me feel a lot of issues are walking a narrow border: Do ex-employees still have keys or access codes to off-site city storage facilities? Aren't all the building records "digitized" or preserved in a microfiche format? Is there 24 hour surveillance (video) or "sign in" to enter the facility? Other than people employed in the building dept, is the location of the records widely known?
And, if the records of just CTS were taken.....uhm, who would be that stupid?? Talk about shining a spotlight on the obvious. Think about a shoe store having only their size 11 1/2 wide width bowling shoes missing from inventory. And, coincidentally the associate who left 6 months earlier is an amateur bowling champ who wears 11 1/2 wide width bowling shoes. I guess life is just full of odd coincidences
.
Last edited:
Antimony
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 20, 2019
- Messages
- 430
- Reaction score
- 2,808
People do stupid things while in a panic. Not everyone however has the resources to cover up crimes like killing Epstein.
Did Friedman also design the other two Champlain condos? What else did he design? Where?
The design is similar. Developers would benefit from using the same design.
Did Friedman also design the other two Champlain condos? What else did he design? Where?
The design is similar. Developers would benefit from using the same design.
ANTIMONY You bring up some interesting issues...and I have been waiting to ask about them.
If a developer owned/paid for a set of architectural plans, can they just purchase land and (with a few modifications or current code upgrades) keep resubmitting the same plans for future development projects??? (Maybe depends on the contract... or the "ego.") I have noticed CTN has a smaller lot size and not sure, but many times I have noticed CTN seems to have a smaller footprint. Perhaps the first set of plans were modified to fit the lot size of CTN (accommodating city easements?)...anybody know?SDS71 (I just can't get over the shocking info in your post...smh) It makes me wonder if the repair work for CTS had ever been put out for bid to other companies in the past? If past work had been performed/or bid, are those competing bids included in the official files? How does the process of choosing a structural engineer even begin....references? How does an HOA announce, Bad news: "We just paid $60,000 for a 4 month study & bid for repairs. The structural engineer says the problems are really serious and will cost over 9 million dollars. Good news: We sent a copy to the chief building inspector of Surfside and he says the building is in great shape.
Which scenario was most palpable to the HOA & residents in 2018?
Who would we/you/I have believed if faced with the same?
No pay wall...same story posted by brilliant @sds71
Surfside investigated ex-building official after tower records went missing, emails show
(Okey dokey...they are "digitizing like crazy"...
I bet you are. I bet you are. Cuz' the city had been pushing for it since 2014!)
Surfside investigated ex-building official after tower records went missing, emails show
(Okey dokey...they are "digitizing like crazy"...
I bet you are. I bet you are. Cuz' the city had been pushing for it since 2014!)
Last edited:
sds71
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2013
- Messages
- 13,976
- Reaction score
- 150,443
In the latest escalation of the town’s rift with Miami-Dade over access to the site of the June 24 condo collapse, Surfside Mayor Charles Burkett is calling it “inexplicable” that the county is still looking for a structural expert while denying Surfside’s hired engineer the ability to study building materials and soil from Champlain Towers South…
The email lays out in writing Burkett’s increasingly public criticism of Mayor Daniella Levine Cava’s administration for refusing Kilsheimer’s request for access to the collapse site. County representatives insist the site must remain closed as two investigations — one by county police, and one by the federal National Institute of Standards and Technology, which probed the 9/11 collapse of the World Trade Center — continue.
On Thursday, the court-appointed receiver running the Champlain Towers South condo association sided with Miami-Dade and instructed county police not to allow Surfside on the property.
“This shall confirm our conversation that no other person, entity or party other than NIST and those necessary for the County to perform its criminal investigation should be given access to the Real Property while it is under the County’s control,” Michael Goldberg, a Miami lawyer, wrote to Major Jorge Aguiar, head of the county’s homicide bureau. “This specifically includes, but is not limited to, the Town of Surfside and its employees and experts.”
Another factor is litigation, with Miami-Dade officially privately saying it would be inappropriate to give Surfside early access to a site to conduct studies the town could use in its defense in a lawsuit over the collapse. Burkett says Miami-Dade officials have said they expect the town to be a defendant in a suit since the head of Surfside’s Building Department was quoted as telling Champlain South residents the tower was in “very good shape” in 2018.
Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/lo...ami-beach/article253113213.html#storylink=cpy
The email lays out in writing Burkett’s increasingly public criticism of Mayor Daniella Levine Cava’s administration for refusing Kilsheimer’s request for access to the collapse site. County representatives insist the site must remain closed as two investigations — one by county police, and one by the federal National Institute of Standards and Technology, which probed the 9/11 collapse of the World Trade Center — continue.
On Thursday, the court-appointed receiver running the Champlain Towers South condo association sided with Miami-Dade and instructed county police not to allow Surfside on the property.
“This shall confirm our conversation that no other person, entity or party other than NIST and those necessary for the County to perform its criminal investigation should be given access to the Real Property while it is under the County’s control,” Michael Goldberg, a Miami lawyer, wrote to Major Jorge Aguiar, head of the county’s homicide bureau. “This specifically includes, but is not limited to, the Town of Surfside and its employees and experts.”
Another factor is litigation, with Miami-Dade officially privately saying it would be inappropriate to give Surfside early access to a site to conduct studies the town could use in its defense in a lawsuit over the collapse. Burkett says Miami-Dade officials have said they expect the town to be a defendant in a suit since the head of Surfside’s Building Department was quoted as telling Champlain South residents the tower was in “very good shape” in 2018.
Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/lo...ami-beach/article253113213.html#storylink=cpy
SuziQ
Former Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2007
- Messages
- 39,600
- Reaction score
- 52,016
The Surfside Mayor needs to realize it would be a huge conflict of interest to be allowed to investigate THEMSELVES at this point in time given they will probably be sued. Further down the road absolutely. But now is not the time. His own building department had shown they can't be trusted.
Antimony
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 20, 2019
- Messages
- 430
- Reaction score
- 2,808
Surfside will be provided all the evidence collected and intended for use at trial after a grand jury meets to see if a crime has occurred and that there is sufficient evidence to bring someone to trial. It's called "Discovery". There is no need for any other experts to investigate the scene or other items that might be later considered evidence. If I were in as much trouble as some of these folks, I would attempt to sift thru everything and then say the evidence was contaminated or compromised. Then I might look for a country that does not extradite to USA.
Antimony
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 20, 2019
- Messages
- 430
- Reaction score
- 2,808
I don't know when the actual investigation started, but It is common for the local Judicial Authority to issue a court order commanding that all things like city and county records of the site and the persons involved be preserved and protected. Looks like Roscoe P. Coltrane is in charge in Surfside.
SouthAussie
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2012
- Messages
- 30,634
- Reaction score
- 189,434
I think what is happening is that Surfside hired Allyn Kilsheimer (structural investigator in Oklahoma bombing, 9/11 attack on Pentagon, Mexico City earthquake, 50 years experience) to look at Champlain Towers North. To make sure it is safe, as the residents were still residing there. And because they don't have the fallen building to inspect, so they are looking at this standing building for structural and design comparison.
He has taken core samples, dug up planter boxes and tiles, pulled down drywall, inspected rebar and slab, and sent samples away for testing.
Investigating a Building Collapse by Studying Clues From One Still Standing
Allyn Kilsheimer also recommended that the county shore up some underground walls so that Collins Street didn't collapse.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/lo...ami-beach/article253113213.html#storylink=cpy
Then Surfside suggested that Allyn Kilsheimer apply for the advertised county job to investigate the collapse, as the county is still fluffing about without having hired anyone to start their investigation.
In this article, it says that as soon as it was deemed safe and appropriate, engineers (such Allyn Kilsheimer) would be given access to the collapse site to investigate.
"It is my understanding that once NIST, the Miami-Dade Fire Rescue and Miami-Dade Police Departments determine that it is safe and appropriate for others to gain access to the site, they will be permitted to do so under guidelines set forth by those agencies," Rundle said.
Investigation won't begin while the Florida condo collapse site remains a crime scene, expert says - CNN
Last edited:
On June 20, 2021, Champlain Towers South was a poorly maintained, poorly designed and (as we all now know) a mammoth disaster that would claim 98 precious lives.
One month later, this article gets published, "early offers" $100M...really? I read stories about each of the victims every night, still breaks my heart... for the want of a nail.....
Inside the tug-of-war over the Surfside condo site’s future
Judge orders the site listed for sale, early offers top $100M
Miami /
July 21, 2021 09:45 AM
One month later, this article gets published, "early offers" $100M...really? I read stories about each of the victims every night, still breaks my heart... for the want of a nail.....
Inside the tug-of-war over the Surfside condo site’s future
Judge orders the site listed for sale, early offers top $100M
Miami /
July 21, 2021 09:45 AM
Last edited:
Furman, a security guard who was working the overnight shift at the Champlain Towers when it fell, told police she escaped through the parking garage and helped residents to safety. She said she heard a series of loud bangs and called 911.
“I don’t even know how I made it out,” she said.
Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article253225363.html#storylink=cpy
Bodycam footage shows initial Surfside condo collapse response
Dramatic New Video Shows Initial Response to Surfside Condo Collapse
This is the post by SDS17 on the media thread
“I don’t even know how I made it out,” she said.
Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article253225363.html#storylink=cpy
Bodycam footage shows initial Surfside condo collapse response
Dramatic New Video Shows Initial Response to Surfside Condo Collapse
This is the post by SDS17 on the media thread
SDS17 I messed up and tried to respond on the media only thread. It clears up some information. A couple of the residents referred to the security guard as "the security guy" and "I told him" etc. But, the security guard is indeed a female, and a heroic one! I'm sure we will be hearing some wonderful things about her. "She said she heard a series of loud bangs and called 911." I can't imagine the chaos, loud bangs, people running, car alarms going off and still having the wherewithal to call for help. My question would be did the security guard who covered the earlier shift hear anything out of the ordinary?
- Status