FL- 12 Story Condo Partial Building Collapse, many still unaccounted for, Miami, 24 June 2021 #2

[Ruminations]

At 1:20....Judge H
"I need the town's complete cooperation and I expect it," he said forcefully at one point.

The problem: an unidentified entity is prepared to make an opening bid of $120 million for the land, but a town-wide zoning proposal in the works for 18 months would reduce the potential size of redevelopment there from 205 units to 139 units. There were 136 units in Champlain Towers South, which was built in 1981.

Hanzman was clearly miffed.
(I am thinking the $120Million bid will be only if they can build the proposed 205 units. Is it possible to put 60+ more units on that lot? HMMM...guess it would be possible if the property reverted to the county's control. Any thoughts on that possibility?)
Woman Lost Family in Surfside Condo Collapse, Gives Victims a Voice in Lawsuit Hearing

Well, the area benefits from the 12 story limit, IMO. Whatever is going down in the town of Surfside such that bigger government oversight could be warranted, it shouldn’t mean the codes and laws should just be tossed. The smaller scale buildings would be a reason I would like Surfside over, say Miami each.

I hope it is not allowed that any new development prices out anybody who wants to stay at that address.

 

[IQuestion]

Well, the area benefits from the 12 story limit, IMO. Whatever is going down in the town of Surfside such that bigger government oversight could be warranted, it shouldn’t mean the codes and laws should just be tossed. The smaller scale buildings would be a reason I would like Surfside over, say Miami each.
I hope it is not allowed that any new development prices out anybody who wants to stay at that address.

When this article uses disorganization, beleaguered and lack of communication, to make its point...The die has been cast. IMO. I read new laws are being proposed that will require specialized peer reviews for all phases of design & construction for high rise, high density buildings. This tragedy is no doubt the paradigm shift for coastal communities, HOA's, builders, insurers, stricter code enforcement, inspection timelines, etc.
"The building department in Surfside, the Florida town hit by the deadly condo building collapse, had reportedly been placed under administrative review due to disorganization and a lack of communication before the disaster.
Former town manager Guillermo Olmedillo placed the beleaguered department under review, according to a January 2019 memorandum obtained by the Miami Herald."
Surfside building department was under review before condo collapse
The issue is not the "height" of the building....the issue is a "pending" zone change. One will have the buildable area 1.9 acres and the new zoning would reduce it to 1.3 acres of buildable area. If CB has his way, large luxury units, very few will be able to "rebuy" in that location. This article explains the proposals. (Judge H. is trying to get money for the surviving victims who need housing, now. That will be the easiest part. I look forward to following his court.)
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article253609833.html

 

[sds71]

New Bodycam Footage Shows Surfside Residents Scrambling After Condo Collapse

 

[Ruminations]

At 1:20....Judge H
"I need the town's complete cooperation and I expect it," he said forcefully at one point.

The problem: an unidentified entity is prepared to make an opening bid of $120 million for the land, but a town-wide zoning proposal in the works for 18 months would reduce the potential size of redevelopment there from 205 units to 139 units. There were 136 units in Champlain Towers South, which was built in 1981.

Hanzman was clearly miffed.
(I am thinking the $120Million bid will be only if they can build the proposed 205 units. Is it possible to put 60+ more units on that lot? HMMM...guess it would be possible if the property reverted to the county's control. Any thoughts on that possibility?)
Woman Lost Family in Surfside Condo Collapse, Gives Victims a Voice in Lawsuit Hearing

Well, the area benefits from the 12 story limit, IMO. Whatever is going down in the town of Surfside such that bigger government oversight could be warranted, it shouldn’t mean the codes and laws should just be tossed. The smaller scale buildings would be a reason I would like Surfside over, say Miami each.

I hope it is not allowed that any new development prices out anybody who wants to stay at that address.

When this article uses disorganization, beleaguered and lack of communication, to make its point...The die has been cast. IMO. I read new laws are being proposed that will require specialized peer reviews for all phases of design & construction for high rise, high density buildings. This tragedy is no doubt the paradigm shift for coastal communities, HOA's, builders, insurers, stricter code enforcement, inspection timelines, etc.
"The building department in Surfside, the Florida town hit by the deadly condo building collapse, had reportedly been placed under administrative review due to disorganization and a lack of communication before the disaster.
Former town manager Guillermo Olmedillo placed the beleaguered department under review, according to a January 2019 memorandum obtained by the Miami Herald."
Surfside building department was under review before condo collapse
The issue is not the "height" of the building....the issue is a "pending" zone change. One will have the buildable area 1.9 acres and the new zoning would reduce it to 1.3 acres of buildable area. If CB has his way, large luxury units, very few will be able to "rebuy" in that location. This article explains the proposals. (Judge H. is trying to get money for the surviving victims who need housing, now. That will be the easiest part. I look forward to following his court.)
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article253609833.html

Thanks, IQ, I learned a lot about the local politics following your references. i hadn’t done so, yet, but made some assumptions based on experiences in other municipalities.

Judge H. and CB might be at odds, but neither alleviate my fears that people are going to get rich off of this tragedy/possible crime, and those people are not the victims.

If judge H. is so concerned about making sure there are funds pronto to the victims, and unconcerned with helping developers house the money launderers of the world, than he can propose rules that make buying in to this new project a possibility for those victims want it.

Or, if judge H. is so concerned with getting the most money possible for the victims, he can tie their compensation to the money made by the developer. How much profit should the developer be allowed to make for each death, injury, and forced relocation? How should that number compare to what is awarded to each victim?

I also do not believe CB is interested in reducing “density” if his argument is that the project can be profitable anyway by increasing the size/luxury of the units. It sounds like his concern is with increasing exclusivity.

What are prevailing salaries/pensions&retirement incomes in the area? If you want to attract full time owner occupants who are motivated to maintain- that is an important question to ask before deciding on a future price point. (I don’t think that residents who balked at assessments were to blame- that was a whole lot of money. The blame lies with professionals in various roles who dropped the ball, as well as under-regulation or poor implementation of existing regulation. I am not trying to blame the homeowners, but it does make sense to build housing locals can afford without balking at assessments.)

 

[sds71]

As many as nine of the 98 victims who died in the worst building collapse in modern U.S. history might have survived the initial cave-in, a USA TODAY investigation suggests. That total, almost 10% of the fatalities, includes one victim who fire rescue logs show was still alive about 10 hours after the devastating tragedy in Surfside, Florida…

That’s a horrifying thought,” said Surfside Mayor Charles Burkett. “Families deserve to know what really happened to their loved ones. It’s the only way they can heal.”

The Arizona Republic

 

[joijoi12]

As many as nine of the 98 victims who died in the worst building collapse in modern U.S. history might have survived the initial cave-in, a USA TODAY investigation suggests. That total, almost 10% of the fatalities, includes one victim who fire rescue logs show was still alive about 10 hours after the devastating tragedy in Surfside, Florida…

That’s a horrifying thought,” said Surfside Mayor Charles Burkett. “Families deserve to know what really happened to their loved ones. It’s the only way they can heal.”

The Arizona Republic

Heartbreaking

I know of the mother of the teen who survived and the teen girl who was on the phone. Does anyone know of others?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Some Surfside victims may have been alive for hours after initial collapse: report

 

[IQuestion]

“The corrosion on the bottom of that column is astronomical,” Dawn Lehman, a professor of structural engineering at the University of Washington, told the Miami Herald. She said that amount of corrosion should have been obvious and documented as part of the 40-year inspection that was ongoing when the building in Surfside, Florida, collapsed June 24.
Report: Evidence of extensive corrosion in collapsed condo

 

[IQuestion]

Surfside’s building officials were slow, inefficient and uncooperative with other agencies. In April 2020, for example, the town’s assistant code compliance manager complained to her supervisors about the head of the building department, Ross Prieto. In two consecutive emails, the manager asked for a list of properties where crews were OK to be working. Prieto responded, “Nah.”   
and
Building and code enforcement departments are supposed to enforce minimum standards “so people within a community can rest assured that the buildings they’re living in, working in, playing in, are safe enough that they’re not going to be injured or die in some kind of catastrophe,” said Tim Ryan, the executive director for the International Building Codes Association.
How a decade of dysfunction contributed to the Surfside condo collapse
How a decade of dysfunction contributed to the Surfside condo collapse
(similar article with No paywall...long, informative & comprehensive read..definitely worth the time)

 

[IQuestion]

The Champlain Tower South "lot" officially went on the sales block Monday. Per this article: "The brokers Michael Fay, John Crotty, David Duckworth, Brian de la Fé and Berkley Bloodworth are working pro bono on sale efforts, which will include a live bidding process. A date for the live bidding has yet to be announced."
Surfside’s Champlain Towers South site on the market. Live bidding planned.

(I am incredibly impressed the brokers have announced they are working pro bono. What an awesome act of goodwill! Hopefully the future purchaser/developer will use the same brokers in the future.)
This is the listing information on Loopnet...a great site for commercial properties.
8777 Collins Ave, Surfside, FL 33154 - Land for Sale | LoopNet.com

 

[sds71]

The last thing Angela Gonzalez remembers is screaming for her daughter to run and grabbing her when the ground gave way in the middle of the night in their ninth-floor apartment at the Champlain Towers South in Surfside, Florida.

Gonzalez, 45, was sent hurtling down four stories, and her daughter Deven, 16, fell down five stories through a maelstrom of concrete and debris on June 24 as the 12-story, 136-unit condo tower [URL='https://www.today.com/news/least-1-dead-after-condo-building-partially-collapses-near-miami-t223668']partially collapsed.

[/URL]
Mother, daughter share chilling account of how they survived Surfside condo collapse

 

[IQuestion]

Really.....tax revenues increased 300% in Surfside, yet services such as building, safety & code enforcement were reduced or in some cases eliminated? (per end of article) Why not decertify and become a part of the county? I can understand wanting to remain separate and exclusive...great for life style/identity. But from the safety/inspections/building aspect a great disservice to tax paying residents in high rise condos. Perhaps just services for the high rises should be outsourced to the county for inspections, code and compliance.(?) And, the rest of the town's services continue to be under their current system. (?) It just might be the best solution, in my opinion.
How a decade of dysfunction contributed to the Surfside condo collapse

 

[A2FMNST]

The Surfside Condo Was Flawed and Failing. Here’s a Look Inside.

 

[IQuestion]

Arrests made in Surfside condo collapse victim ID thefts
Arrests made in Surfside condo collapse victim ID thefts
Betsy Alejandra Cacho-Medina, 30, Rodney Choute, 38, and Kimberly Michelle Johnson, 34, were taken into custody Wednesday morning.
3 suspects were arrested on charges of stealing identities of victims of the Surfside condo collapse to open fraudulent credit and debit cards

 

[sds71]

Surfside condo contractor lost license after many complaints | Miami Herald

The construction of the doomed Champlain Towers South building in Surfside was helmed by a developer charged with tax evasion in Canada, an engineer who oversaw a bungled municipal garage in Coral Gables, and an architect who temporarily lost his license for poor designs.

 

[A2FMNST]

Great time for investigators to see how king tides may have impacted the building foundations at the site…

King Tides coming to parts of flood-prone South Florida - CNN

 

[IQuestion]

Great time for investigators to see how king tides may have impacted the building foundations at the site…

King Tides coming to parts of flood-prone South Florida - CNN

A2FMNST Now that you posted the info, I spent more time reading about King Tides...fascinating how the "flooding" occurs so frequently some neighboring areas actually publish the info as a "regular and expected process" and the upcoming dates of the King Tides. (wow!!!)
******"
Anticipated 2021 King Tides
September 9-11
October 5-11
October 20-21
November 3-9
December 2-7

Since higher tides are possible on both the new moon and the full moon, additional dates to watch for tidal impacts include: Aug. 20-22, Sept. 18-22, and Nov. 18-19, 2021."******
King Tides and High Tides | City of Fort Lauderdale, FL

I have learned more about rebar, salt water degrading cement, rust, spalling, shear walls, 40 year inspections, the ever ticking clock of documented exponential structural failure culminating into a disaster...too horrible for words.
9 Reasons warnings go unheeded:
Cassandra syndrome: 9 Reasons warnings go unheeded - PsychMechanics

 

[IQuestion]

"Standing room only for meeting on vacant lot for sale.
Geesh, I am really confused "land swap"??....guess I am really tired because, at first I kept reading "swamp land." This has got to be the most confusing news article I have read in a long time. Tell me if I got this right.
The potential buyer wants to put a new community center and memorial tower on the now vacant CTS lot . And, in exchange, the potential buyer gets to acquire the land where the existing community center is now. And, then the new buyer can build a new condo high rise without the "address and name of the CTS disaster" attached to it. ???? (right?)
It would make sense for the potential buyer to pursue such a transaction. The purchaser of a brand new ocean liner would not want it named Titanic II and expect people to be comfortable purchasing first class tickets for its maiden voyage. Maybe they could just change the address ? (Just like the Reagan's requesting their address in Bel Air be changed from 666 to 668.) If you were in Macau, none of the hotels have "4th floor" because #4 is considered unlucky. And, realizing "Most people with triskaidekaphobia have an immersive and ongoing phobia / fear of the number 13" even the CTS referred to the top floor as Penthouse instead of 13th floor.
I would love to read your thoughts and opinions on this. (I can understand ALL the sides of the parties involved... but am tending towards the land swap idea, erecting a memorial and putting a children's water park/community center right next door to the huge oval condo building that looks like a giant Tic-Tac from above. I like the thought of parents & grandparents sitting on benches, listening to music, reading books, taking a break from their hectic lives and watching their children glee with delight as water fountains shoot up from the ground. I think of CTS residents as a multigenerational family who would have enjoyed it, too.)

 

[IQuestion]

"Standing room only for meeting on vacant lot for sale.
Geesh, I am really confused "land swap"??....guess I am really tired because, at first I kept reading "swamp land." This has got to be the most confusing news article I have read in a long time. Tell me if I got this right.
The potential buyer wants to put a new community center and memorial tower on the now vacant CTS lot . And, in exchange, the potential buyer gets to acquire the land where the existing community center is now. And, then the new buyer can build a new condo high rise without the "address and name of the CTS disaster" attached to it. ???? (right?)
It would make sense for the potential buyer to pursue such a transaction. The purchaser of a brand new ocean liner would not want it named Titanic II and expect people to be comfortable purchasing first class tickets for its maiden voyage. Maybe they could just change the address ? (Just like the Reagan's requesting their address in Bel Air be changed from 666 to 668.) If you were in Macau, none of the hotels have "4th floor" because #4 is considered unlucky. And, realizing "Most people with triskaidekaphobia have an immersive and ongoing phobia / fear of the number 13" even the CTS referred to the top floor as Penthouse instead of 13th floor.
I would love to read your thoughts and opinions on this. (I can understand ALL the sides of the parties involved... but am tending towards the land swap idea, erecting a memorial and putting a children's water park/community center right next door to the huge oval condo building that looks like a giant Tic-Tac from above. I like the thought of parents & grandparents sitting on benches, listening to music, reading books, taking a break from their hectic lives and watching their children glee with delight as water fountains shoot up from the ground. I think of CTS residents as a multigenerational family who would have enjoyed it, too.)

Ugh....I forgot to post the link about the proposed land swap... it appears it was rejected.
Surfside Land Swap for South Florida Condo Collapse Site Rejected

 

[mickey2942]

Fourth Person Charged In Identity Theft Of Surfside Condo Collapse Victims

There is something wrong with people who prey on tragedy for personal gain.