FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas H.S. shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #2 *Arrest*

[MsFacetious]

Since you are so close to the situation and lost someone yourself...
you may be right. It may just be too difficult to be reading about it right now.

No
that was clearly not the case
All that I read in this thread is poor guy who didn’t treat him good, poor killer this and that. Oh his poor brother etc...

This place is supposed to be victim friendly, this thread clearly is not.

I was checking in here so I didn’t have to scan the internet and see pictures I didn’t want to see. I think I’m better off out there.

 

[Elley Mae]

He's mentally ill. He won't get the DP.

Agree.

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

Generally those who self injure don't lash out at others. So this is a bit surprising if he was a cutter and then committed a mass shooting. Those who cut do so to hurt themselves INSTEAD of hurting others. So it's an interesting psychological puzzle why he did both.



I have also thought this might be an option for repeat DUI offenders. Put an implant that leaks out a medication that makes them very ill if they drink. Nothing else seems to be working, so it's worth a try. I'm sure at some point the science will get there.

They have...


"The naltrexone implant, which is surgically inserted into a person, releases a continuous dose of the medication and thus eliminates the problem of missing doses. However, the person must get a new implant every few months. While not yet been approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, these implants show promise for future treatment."


"Naltrexone (Revia or Vivitrol) helps prevent opioids from working in the body (reversing the effects) and is also used to quell cravings in alcoholics."

https://americanaddictioncenters.org/addiction-medications/naltrexone/


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[watergirl62]

No
that was clearly not the case
All that I read in this thread is poor guy who didn’t treat him good, poor killer this and that. Oh his poor brother etc...

This place is supposed to be victim friendly, this thread clearly is not.

I was checking in here so I didn’t have to scan the internet and see pictures I didn’t want to see. I think I’m better off out there.

That's a fair observation...

There is more discussion here about Cruz than lovely bright Carmen and the other victims. We are a compassionate group and want to figure out how things went horribly wrong.

It would pi$$ me off to no end to if this guy had been responsible for ripping my life and my communities lives to pieces in ten minutes time and then read people feeling sorry for HIM, obsessing over him, and not the people I loved.

None of us (that I know of) knew any of these victims, and we will never feel the intense rage you feel right now.

When will Carmen's service be held?

 

[Elley Mae]

Nikolas Cruz was investigated after cutting himself on Snapchat, state report shows

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/b...las-cruz-cutting-snapchat-20180216-story.html

More at link.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

No
that was clearly not the case
All that I read in this thread is poor guy who didn’t treat him good, poor killer this and that. Oh his poor brother etc...

This place is supposed to be victim friendly, this thread clearly is not.

I was checking in here so I didn’t have to scan the internet and see pictures I didn’t want to see. I think I’m better off out there.

Respectfully, family and friends of victims often find this forum to be "too much," as discussions are wide ranging and include trying to understand the perp, his background and motivations, to perhaps find ways such tragedies can be prevented. I've seen nothing on this thread that isn't victim friendly. Trying to understand what led the perp to commit this horror does not in any way cast aspersions on the victims or minimize the damage that he did. Respectfully, the internet may not be a good place for the family and friends of victims to be at this stage.

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[Bernina]

FYI:
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...edy-unfolds-russian-agents-sow-discord-online

[h=1]As An American Tragedy Unfolds, Russian Agents Sow Discord Online[/h]
Take it with a grain of salt. I know I've seen a lot of "garbage" comments on various MSM, Twitter, Youtube sites, etc. Quite a few were on the Youtube video by CNN of the grieving mother's plea to the POTUS. IE, "Fakenews", "Actors", etc. Be aware of the legitimacy of your sources.
It sickens me that human beings would stoop this low, and at the expense of a grieving community.

There ought to be consequences, we shouldn't have to tolerate this on any level. It's not freedom of speech, it's hate.

 

[ohreally]

I hope the prosecutor will meet with the victim's families to decide weather to go to trial or allow him to plead guilty in exchange for taking the death penalty off the table. As a group they may decide that they do not want to go through a trial and later all of the appeals a death penalty conviction brings. IMO thier voices need to be heard on this and weighed heavily on the prosecutor's decision.
I wonder if they can put a stipulation into the plead that he cannot do any interviews for media exposure.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

This article mentions a behavioral disorder as well. That's pretty broad. Are they talking about a conduct disorder such as ODD or a personality disorder such as borderline personality disorder? Many of the disorders in these categories are very difficult to treat. Although some types of therapies are more helpful than others for them. I thinks social workers need to have better training on recognizing when these therapies are necessary. I am not talking about medication, I am talking about therapy. Specifically, DBT vs cognitive therapy and other therapies. And they need to start YOUNG. I'd like to know if NC ever had therapy and what kind.

I think discussions of the minutiae of this particular murderer's mental health IS important and appropriate to discussions of preventing these occurrences in the future. It does not mean we are more sympathetic to him than the victims. It means that some of us recognize that it takes a village to raise a child and some of the villagers didn't step forward when they could have if they had the right tools. My heart goes out to the victims and the people who loved them and the nation that mourns for all of them. We can do better for everyone, including the mentally ill.

If NC is truly mournful and remorseful and if his attorneys so strongly feel that the village let him down, then as part of this process, he should open up his history to all the appropriate professionals who can study this so that we CAN do better.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/b...las-cruz-cutting-snapchat-20180216-story.html

 

[watergirl62]

They have...


"The naltrexone implant, which is surgically inserted into a person, releases a continuous dose of the medication and thus eliminates the problem of missing doses. However, the person must get a new implant every few months. While not yet been approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, these implants show promise for future treatment."


"Naltrexone (Revia or Vivitrol) helps prevent opioids from working in the body (reversing the effects) and is also used to quell cravings in alcoholics."

https://americanaddictioncenters.org/addiction-medications/naltrexone/


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Great link, thanks PB. I think this is a fantastic delivery method, but it's critical to get the correct meds and dosage.

Remember Norplant?

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1995-09-05/business/9509050027_1_norplant-jewel-klein-law-school

 

[Owutatangledweb]

FYI:
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...edy-unfolds-russian-agents-sow-discord-online

[h=1]As An American Tragedy Unfolds, Russian Agents Sow Discord Online[/h]
Take it with a grain of salt. I know I've seen a lot of "garbage" comments on various MSM, Twitter, Youtube sites, etc. Quite a few were on the Youtube video by CNN of the grieving mother's plea to the POTUS. IE, "Fakenews", "Actors", etc. Be aware of the legitimacy of your sources.
It sickens me that human beings would stoop this low, and at the expense of a grieving community.

There ought to be consequences, we shouldn't have to tolerate this on any level. It's not freedom of speech, it's hate.

Another reason why us villagers have to come together.

 

[Doghairrules]

You have great points. I have worked with Alzheimer's/ dementia patients who become very combative. I have been cornered before with a patient in a walker, lol. It is interesting and painful to hear that before the disease they were completely opposite, loving and nonviolent. They should not be in jail at all.

I do have an OT question I have been pondering for awhile. Last summer I was vacationing at a condo, the type where the pool is inward where the condo decks are located. One morning I heard a very distraught child yelling at the pool. It went on for sometime, I went out on the deck to see what was going on. I observed a boy about ten moaning and yelling, he was throwing pool furniture around. There was a baby sitter there holding a baby trying to calm him down- at a safe distance. Another lady came out of the condo that they were staying to check on the sitter and the boy. The sitter told her that the boy had been like that all morning and had even broken stuff in the condo. Then an older boy came out and started swimming which calmed the boy down, he was still distraught but seemed to have fun- if that makes sense? My question is what happens to them as they age and are still violent? Where do they go? I have worried for him since...

Well, ideally the family and the child have been given supports and skills that will allow him to express his anger and agitation in safer ways. Sadly, that doesn’t always happen.

 

[Doghairrules]

I'm caught up. Whew!

I just saw someone post that his brother has been placed in-patient. That doesn't surprise me. I can only imagine how hard this all is for him.

I also wondered if it was possibly him that alerted the FBI of his brothers possible plan. It said someone close to him. This is a nightmare for so many people. We need some serious attention and work on WHEN problems are reported, what are the best ways to address, confront, treat those issues. From bullying to mental health. The "see something, say something" is usually not the problem. It is the follow uo, long term response of those who it was reported to. THAT is where our breakdown is. We need a big plug to fix this hole!

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And more funding.

 

[watergirl62]

Another reason why us villagers have to come together.

Right? So much for us villagers to absorb this week...

I agree that understanding the minutae is critcal toward prevention of future tragedies. Also we NEED to have the mental health discussion, and we need to KEEP having it beyond the next news cycle.

 

[Doghairrules]

Maybe the answer is to develop long-acting slow release drugs that can be implanted under the skin, a bit like the contraceptive implant, so that the individual cannot just "go off" their medication. That would not, however, prevent someone just disappearing and the drugs eventually expiring, but perhaps if any social security payments were made dependent on the individual reporting in and having the implant replaced that would motivate him or her to stay medicated. No meds, no payments.

Obviously that would only apply to those who were not so severely affected as to require permanent residential care and therefore out in the community.

Except you cannot force people to take meds except in extreme cases. The young man I coparent has a moderate intellectual disability. If he were to ever refuse to take his meds, the system cannot make him.

 

[Doghairrules]

But what does that mean?

Why was he "like a fruit fly"?

Without more context it's impossible to know whether the mother had a profound point to make about her son which was cut off by the coworker before the mother finished speaking, or whether the mother really was likening her son to an insect.

She was really likening her son to an insect. The coworker did not, in fact, cut her off. They had a long conversation, the first of many, while my coworker tried to get mom the support she needed to adequately support her son. In her mind, he was unable to do anything other than exist. She was not bonded with him and sadly, saw him as an imposition.

 

[CARIIS]

Attn All Americans

Surprise ! We are back to money.

There are long lasting injectables (30 days)


They are expensive - noone will pay for them

There are only a few.

Its a win win win

the side effect profiles on the heavy hitters are rough

with an injectable however it kinda makes it to where at least it can get to level then the side effects most times settles

They stop taking their meds because of the side effect profiles. If you can get past that and the pt has relief.

But noone will pay for them .........

 

[CARIIS]

Except you cannot force people to take meds except in extreme cases. The young man I coparent has a moderate intellectual disability. If he were to ever refuse to take his meds, the system cannot make him.

It can be done but is grueling . You have to go to a judge -- and few judges back then wanted to do such

i would bet in our environment a heck of a lot more judges might be willing to do so .


I hope the prosecutor will meet with the victim's families to decide weather to go to trial or allow him to plead guilty in exchange for taking the death penalty off the table. As a group they may decide that they do not want to go through a trial and later all of the appeals a death penalty conviction brings. IMO thier voices need to be heard on this and weighed heavily on the prosecutor's decision.
I wonder if they can put a stipulation into the plead that he cannot do any interviews for media exposure.

Its educated and affluent -- I would vote most would not want the DP . And the kids have been wonderfully bright and articulate -- they are gonna focus more on the "other" (!) issue as opposed to murdering a sick person.

Again think of gma running after you with a big knife -- you would not take her prison you would take her to hospital -- identical

moo

 

[MelmothTheLost]

She was really likening her son to an insect. The coworker did not, in fact, cut her off. They had a long conversation, the first of many, while my coworker tried to get mom the support she needed to adequately support her son. In her mind, he was unable to do anything other than exist. She was not bonded with him and sadly, saw him as an imposition.

Thanks for clarifying.

The bit BBM - do you think that was a reasonable assessment of the situation in this case, bearing in mind there are children who are so multiply and profoundly disabled it's difficult to see any positive aspects to their lives?

 

[AmyPond]

There are various videos on YouTube which demonstrate various behaviours which are associated with severe autism.



Yes, there are, but that's because autism is a spectrum, which means that while some people with it will be severely affected others will only be mildly so, especially those who would once have been diagnosed with Aspergers.

I suddenly wondered if the stereotypical English "eccentric" might in fact have been at the mild end of the autistic spectrum.

I know what autism looks like because I have a child with autism. I am also a part of many activities with our local autism society. I was just annoyed by the term "profoundly autistic" because it's not a term I hear from people in the autism community that I am a part of. The comment also seemed to pigeon-hole an entire group of people and imply that they are dumb.

People who have these "severe" autistic "behaviors" can also get good grades in school. Just like kids without those behaviors could get bad grades.

There are way more faucets to autism than behaviors. Too much to get into here especially since it's completely irrelevant since this guy's possible autism had NOTHING to do with him killing people.