FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas H.S. shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #2 *Arrest*

[CARIIS]

God there were a bunch of threats posteed in FL and a bunch of schools went nuts and in lockdown and the whole deal

local news 2

 

[thesensitivechild]

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/02/16/...am-group/index.html?__twitter_impression=true
Exclusive: Group chat messages show school shooter obsessed with race, violence and guns

Gonna assume another one who was on 4chan /pol


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[CARIIS]

humm

Re sept 28 16

Le at the house. This is the report of cutting incident. I freezed it and learned that he had been a "client " the the community mental health center - Henderson.

a DCF staffer was on scene, at the house as well.

This indicates to me he was well known within both systems.

So.. this sounds like he had in fact been entered into both systems , and a case file had been opened by DCF already.

Mixed feelings at one level DCF had been invoved but on another level it seems we might find out (HIppa may prevent but this is obviously a s serious story) starting to wonder if they (DCF) just could not find anyone who would take him.

ANd speculating here mo (old) did not have the heart to send him to foster care . That was how it worked a lot -- who is looking for a violent child ?

Anyone?

Some times they lied and the poor kid got transferred and all that and then shortly after the foster parents went back to DCF and said no take him back. I do not want that kid in my home. I am scared of him/her. Come get him/her.

It is a horrid system (as the world is learning ) here in FL

A detailed history of DCF failures leading to deaths of hundreds

[FONT=&quot]A Miami Herald I-Team Investigation[/FONT]​

http://media.miamiherald.com/static/media/projects/2014/innocents-lost/

 

[mpnola]

If anyone is going to have signs of deeper needs, I think this family did. Repeated calls of abuse (violence?), counseling, didn't get them anywhere. It’s no wonder families with mental health needs children complain that there is no help for them. To me, this family was screaming “danger ahead” :curses:

from your article linked:

— dating back to 2010 -- with one report saying sheriff’s deputies responded to his home more than 35 times in just six years.

— [calls show] two erratic and violent boys who repeatedly “threw items,” were “out of control” and fought with their mother and each other on an apparently regular basis.

— “He had been cutting his arms, his mother said, to get attention, as he learned it from an ex-girlfriend,” deputies said. “He has mentioned in the past that he would like to purchase a firearm.”

— The therapist on scene, Jared Bienenfeld with Henderson Mental Health, and the deputies concluded there were “no signs of mental illness or criminal activity.”And much like the calls before – which were placed due to reasons ranging from the brothers beating each other to Cruz, at the age of 12, threating his mother and calling her a “useless b****” – law enforcement left without taking any further action.



— According to reports, Cruz and his brother both suffered from mental health issues, including ADHD and OCD, and took medication as treatment

I am still 200 posts behind, so I'm sorry if this has been discussed.

This is what I tried to explain when people wanted to know why Adam Lanzas didn't get locked up or have more treatment. Just because you have mental health issues and just because you exhibit behavior that is consistent with mental health issues, it does not mean that they can or will hospitalize you. They assess to see if there is IMMINENT danger to themselves or others and respond. Immediate danger. Not a danger that might come long down the line.

And it is a slippery slope. Mental health was such a "dirty" thing for so long, locking family members away to never be seen again. Then, they went the complete other way and wanted everyone to have a place in the community and in the classrooms.all together. Inclusion. The problem is nothing is that easy. Mental health is real. And while it isn't "dirty", it needs serious and unwavering attention. Even when people become stable on meds, it is so common for them to get off the meds cause they feel better. But, they feel better because the meds are working! There is no good answer yet, but every person cannot be locked up. And they also can't be ignored until something major happens. It has to be a medium ground somewhere. That's my opinion.

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[CoolJ]

I think the cell phone is awful. From day one -- never had one. Never wanted one.

There isolation machines. You cant even say hi to someone behind you in a grocery line -- there all glued.

You pass people sitting at restaurant -- they all have their cell phones in their faces. MY thought had always been well heck however you all are talking to invite them up to the table and you can talk face to face over a meal

its insanity

I think the generation at the school are going to have a horrible time with marriage. There is no communication skills development happening

Those emo things or whatever they are called are silly Feelings are not a happy face or a mad face or a tears face

Human emotion is a dash more complicated than pushing a button

de friending someone or unfriending whatever it is called is not conflict resolution -- a skill anyone in adult life needs.

In marriage kinda significant!

They create a total inability to develop any frustration tolerance skills. Everything is ordered ahead so there is no waiting. Waiting for an ambulance can be a problem for a cup at Starbucks not so much!!!

That generation has learned no way to make somewhat of a complicated narrative .

I have teased some folks (who have kids) . before cell phones emails had some substance .

I have watched as there entire world has turned into 140 characters and check that off your list

i teased anita that if I emailed her that my head fell off last night her response would be.

Sorry to hear this. Feel better.

Its an addiction in the purest sense of the word and no different than heroin smoking etc etc

the core definition of addiction is any entity which results in feelings of anxiety if separated from which is really harmful

Separating from a fire extinguisher while the kitchen is ablaze is appropriate anxiety!

the notion that they make things easier is not born out by reality. it is obserdity

For cell phone addicts meeting someone at a restaurant at 7 PM is like this !!

Lets just make it two people for typing reasons !

START 6 PM

hi we on for 7

min later sure

3 min later I was wondering do we to go to *advertiser censored* instead

2 min later I am not sure hold on

3 min later where do you want to go

2 min later

1 min later XXXX

2 min later ok

3 min later ok see you there

2 min later ok

15 min later I may be a little late I am running into XXXX to grab something

2 min later While your there can you get me *advertiser censored*

2 min later sure

1 min later what do you want

1 min later XXXXX

1 min later OK

2 min later do you want large or small

1 min later small

2 min later I did not hear from you so I got you large sorry about that

1 minlute later can you just return it

2 min later No I am back in the car

1 min later thats ok

2 min later I am pulling in the reataurant

1 min later I am about 10 min utes away

1 min later ok

2 min later I got the table

3 min later great

1 min later you want me to order you a coke

1 min later sure

1 min later make sure it is diet

1 min later pepsi or coke

2 min later i dont care

1 min later make it a coke

2 min later i think it is a pepsi should i have them take it back

1 min later no that is ok

1 min later where are you

2 min later about 5 minutes away

1 min later ok

3 min later at a long light

1 min later OK

2 minutes later I am pulling into the parking lot

1 minute later I am at a table on the right

1 min ute later on the right or left side

1 minute later on the right

2 min later I am pulling in

1 min later OK

1 min later what kind of appetizer do you want

2 min later I am going to BR first

1 mi later OK


arrive

sit down

say hi

pick up your cell phones and sitting across from one another do nothing other than tweet or whatever people that are NOT at the table

=====================================
OUR VERSION OF THIS :

6 days ahead of time Want to go to *advertiser censored* Fri at 7 Sure sounds good 6 days later at 7 the two of you sit down and talk and eat .............

compare and contrast

give me a break!!

:laughing:

good one CARIIS!

It is funny because it is true.

 

[mpnola]

I'm caught up. Whew!

I just saw someone post that his brother has been placed in-patient. That doesn't surprise me. I can only imagine how hard this all is for him.

I also wondered if it was possibly him that alerted the FBI of his brothers possible plan. It said someone close to him. This is a nightmare for so many people. We need some serious attention and work on WHEN problems are reported, what are the best ways to address, confront, treat those issues. From bullying to mental health. The "see something, say something" is usually not the problem. It is the follow uo, long term response of those who it was reported to. THAT is where our breakdown is. We need a big plug to fix this hole!

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[keeleydoll]

What exactly is "profoundly autistic?"

And just for future information...a lot of people with autism get good grades in mainstream classes.

I have no clue if this kid is on the spectrum. I just know that autism doesn't cause people to be mass murderers any more than having brown hair causes someone to commit murder.

It has been reported repeatedly that NC was diagnosed autistic, ADHD and severe OCD.

High functioning persons with autism do score well on tests that they can study for. Not “profoundly autistic” means the same as very low functioning autistic.

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[MelmothTheLost]

This is what I tried to explain when people wanted to know why Adam Lanzas didn't get locked up or have more treatment.

I'd suggest a major factor is the extent to which the parents, especially the mother when the father is absent, are in denial of a problem and seek to shield the disturbed child longer than seems sensible to outsiders. That was certainly the case with Lanza and seems to have been the case with Cruz, though there are mixed signals with Cruz's mother - it's reported she tried to "give him away" at the age of 6 after his adoptive father died, yet later she is reported to have refused to believe that the brothers could have been committing acts of vandalism against neighbours' cars. Maybe it's a maternal guilt thing, ie the feeling that they birthed the disturbed child and therefore need to devote everything to "making up" for the error.

Maybe other mothers would have given up and surrendered their troubled sons to the authorities who might have found ways to curb the behaviour, or maybe it would merely have postponed an inevitable outburst for a decade or so.

It would be very interesting to know how many of these young shooters had mothers who were over-protective, in denial or who shielded their sons from the consequences of their behaviour.

 

[mpnola]

It has been reported repeatedly that NC was diagnosed autistic, ADHD and severe OCD.

High functioning persons with autism do score well on tests that they can study for. “Not profoundly autistic” means the same as high functioning autistic.

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Agreed and just to add a little to that---

I worked with adults with disabilities. One of my females was diagnosed with high functioning autism. When we would go into the community, most people had no idea I worked with her. They just thought I was her friend. And she was quick! She swiped a receipt of mine (when they still put the card #s on them) and called all kinds of sex lines on my credit card. When we went to Special Olympics, she wanted to pick up on giys, so flipped her badge so you couldn't see she was an athlete. Many times, there are oddities, but many people wouldn't even notice, unless you spend some time around them.

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[MzOpinion8d]

Those instances of rage are perfectly avoidable if the teacher -and the parents- know how to react and most importantly how to anticipate when these are about to happen.

With the right training, knowledge and empathy anyone can deal with the struggles of an autistic child except very extreme cases. I have had autistic pupils/students up to age 14 so not that young, some HF autistic -verbal and with social skills- and others non-verbal.

Yeah, that mom in the video should have known better than to ask her son to take the garbage out. She should have been prepared for him to go get a huge kitchen knife and threaten her with it. Stupid mother! What was she thinking!

In case you couldn't tell, that was sarcasm. And you are not correct about those instances of rage being perfectly avoidable.

My autistic son nearly stabbed me in the neck with a pair of scissors one morning two years ago for waking him up for school. He was 17 then. I really thought I was going to die.

 

[keeleydoll]

Profoundly autistic. Please tell
us the best case scenario for this person in the US after their mothers are too old or too small to care for them or happen to pass away? https://youtu.be/ctOh33A3D2U

https://youtu.be/j4PTf7LgsIE

Nikolas Cruz is a horrifying human being who happens to have been diagnosed as autistic, ADHD and OCD. Regardless of his diagnoses he should have been found and stopped before he killed 15 kids and 2 coaches.




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[keeleydoll]

Agreed and just to add a little to that---

I worked with adults with disabilities. One of my females was diagnosed with high functioning autism. When we would go into the community, most people had no idea I worked with her. They just thought I was her friend. And she was quick! She swiped a receipt of mine (when they still put the card #s on them) and called all kinds of sex lines on my credit card. When we went to Special Olympics, she wanted to pick up on giys, so flipped her badge so you couldn't see she was an athlete. Many times, there are oddities, but many people wouldn't even notice, unless you spend some time around them.

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Especially females who are autistic, they are diagnosed much less often or early because they’re more able to assimilate by copying those around them.

This isn’t about anyone except the murderer and victims.

All I was saying was that his diagnosed mental conditions were not debilitating to him to the point he couldn’t pass “normal” classes or reasonably blend in with his peers until his rage got to be too great.

NC as reported by MSM was diagnosed Autistic, ADHD and OCD. He made good grades in mainstream classes. At least one person in his community was concerned and called the FBI in January he of this year. Students who him were scared and literally joked about him doing something like this.


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[ATasteOfHoney]

Is it possible that NC was not only Autistic but **Schizophrenia** was starting to emerge as well? He is the perfect age where it starts to emerge in males.

Also, any word on if recreational drugs were used by NC?

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Even when people become stable on meds, it is so common for them to get off the meds cause they feel better. But, they feel better because the meds are working! There is no good answer yet, but every person cannot be locked up. And they also can't be ignored until something major happens. It has to be a medium ground somewhere. That's my opinion.

Maybe the answer is to develop long-acting slow release drugs that can be implanted under the skin, a bit like the contraceptive implant, so that the individual cannot just "go off" their medication. That would not, however, prevent someone just disappearing and the drugs eventually expiring, but perhaps if any social security payments were made dependent on the individual reporting in and having the implant replaced that would motivate him or her to stay medicated. No meds, no payments.

Obviously that would only apply to those who were not so severely affected as to require permanent residential care and therefore out in the community.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

(CNN)Confessed school shooter Nikolas Cruz intends to plead guilty, Broward County Public Defender Howard Finkelstein said Friday.

Finkelstein said the object is to avoid a painful trial and for Cruz not to get the death penalty. Prosecutors could not immediately be reached for comment.

More at link . . .
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/16/us/florida-school-shooting/index.html

Just because the public defender wants to offer NC pleading guilty in exchange for not getting the death penalty as an option doesn't mean prosecutors have to accept that offer.

They'd be stupid to do so. They have plenty of evidence to convict him on all charges. They have no incentive to bargain this away.

I don't believe for a second that NC feels a drop of remorse for his actions. If he is saying so to the attorney, he's just manipulating the attorney. Just playing games at this point. I don't think he cares if he lives or dies.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

A coworker at the nonprofit serving families experiencing developmental/intellectual disabilities that I used to work at once had a mom tell her that her son was like a fruit fly.

I can’t even.

But what does that mean?

Why was he "like a fruit fly"?

Without more context it's impossible to know whether the mother had a profound point to make about her son which was cut off by the coworker before the mother finished speaking, or whether the mother really was likening her son to an insect.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

i hope he gets the death penalty. because spending the rest of his life in solitary (which he will if the DP is denied) is more hell in his mind than the hell he inflicted in 17 families.

I think you're wrong. If Cruz is autistic, putting him in solitary in a prison with a completely regulated, unchanging regime would be akin to winning the lottery.

 

[margarita25]

Is it safe to come back in?


These are the victims of the Florida school shooting
By Eric Levenson and Joe Sterling, CNN
Updated 1:13 AM ET, Sat February 17, 2018
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/us/florida-shooting-victims-school/index.html

 

[MsFacetious]

Snipped for focus.

Cutting? Yeah... no. No matter how you justify the reason for the cutting or whose fault it is, you still need to dig deep to figure out why your child is self-harming, even if it is 'just to get attention'. There are probably deeper issues. Sad. [emoji20]

Generally those who self injure don't lash out at others. So this is a bit surprising if he was a cutter and then committed a mass shooting. Those who cut do so to hurt themselves INSTEAD of hurting others. So it's an interesting psychological puzzle why he did both.

Maybe the answer is to develop long-acting slow release drugs that can be implanted under the skin, a bit like the contraceptive implant, so that the individual cannot just "go off" their medication. That would not, however, prevent someone just disappearing and the drugs eventually expiring, but perhaps if any social security payments were made dependent on the individual reporting in and having the implant replaced that would motivate him or her to stay medicated. No meds, no payments.

Obviously that would only apply to those who were not so severely affected as to require permanent residential care and therefore out in the community.

I have also thought this might be an option for repeat DUI offenders. Put an implant that leaks out a medication that makes them very ill if they drink. Nothing else seems to be working, so it's worth a try. I'm sure at some point the science will get there.

 

[Trident]

No
that was clearly not the case
All that I read in this thread is poor guy who didn’t treat him good, poor killer this and that. Oh his poor brother etc...

This place is supposed to be victim friendly, this thread clearly is not.

I was checking in here so I didn’t have to scan the internet and see pictures I didn’t want to see. I think I’m better off out there.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I DO have some sympathy for Cruz. Obviously he was a tortured soul.

I'm not making excuses for him and my heart breaks for the victims and their families, but I also understand there are many kinds of hurt and pain.

Edited to Add: I went back and checked out some posts. Sorry you were close to one of these victims? I'm not sure. Even so, there is enough pain here to go a very long way around IMO.