FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas H.S. shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #2 *Arrest*

[TooCurious]

IMO, we should focus on the motivation, the detection, and deterence of these killers, not the means.
I know some don't believe in assigning blame to LE and although it's true that this act is 100% the fault of Cruz, I don't think the FBI, school officials, or local LE did enough to protect the kids or the public. When reading the accounts of people that knew him, the offenses he commited at school, the postings, the pictures of guns, the declaration to be a professional school shooter, the resource officer warning teachers he is dangerous, etc.... it should make you wonder how in the world this kid was allowed to be anywhere near weapons or the school. Just my opinion but to me the breakdown was at the authoritative level. For goodness sake everyone knew he was a danger including the FBI. There will be lawsuits over this and hopefully congressional hearings. Is this not negligence?

Personally I hope each family sues and then through that process we will know just how bad the system let everyone down. At that point we will find who did not do their job.

3 teachers gave their lives to protect students. What remarkable men, through the anger, the accusations, and rush to judgement I hope these men, their names, and their actions will not be forgotten. True heroes that died so others could live.

Lame quoting myself but after the new revelation on FBI, I thought I would repost

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...55346f6de81_story.html?utm_term=.7e078e9adffe

 

[Betty P]

A classmate through elementary and middle school, Brody Speno waited every day with Cruz to catch the bus to school. Then one afternoon about five years ago, when they both were teenagers, Cruz started throwing eggs at Speno’s car with no warning, Speno recalled. He and a friend chased Cruz back to his house.

“We were pissed off, so we knocked on the door and his mom came out,” Speno said. When the two told her what happened, Cruz’s mom had a strange reaction.

“She said, ‘No, my son would never do that. He’s inside sleeping,’ ” Speno recalled.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...9c9830535e5_story.html?utm_term=.5ee25b65b972

Interesting. That gives us a little insight into his home life. Mom may have been in denial about his violence outside the home. Didn't want others to know what was going on. I'm still shocked at the number of guns he owned. She must have been helping him purchase them, it seemed like a pretty expensive collection.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I’m thinking that is wishful thinking. I’m thinking not.

Defense attorneys are doing a bang-up job of poisoning the potential jury pool while trying to elicit sympathy for the mentally-unstable young man who perpetrated this heinous crime.

 

[CARIIS]

Snipped for focus.

Cutting? Yeah... no. No matter how you justify the reason for the cutting or whose fault it is, you still need to dig deep to figure out why your child is self-harming, even if it is 'just to get attention'. There are probably deeper issues. Sad. [emoji20]

In many instances it has nothing to do with attn. It is about a totally lack of feeling anything about being alive

it is a desperate attempt to FEEL something anything

it can be more dangerous for autistic sufferers . Often they have wildy high tolerances to pain (watching a kid enter a head banging binge is devastating).

They will bite themselves -- punch themselves in their faces

its violent stuff

they can also be very sensitive to temperature changes

its real serious sad stuff folks

and exhausting for the caretaker

if there is anyone here in that a role of caretaker and feels like doing so for others to get a caretakers life (and the child's)

it is gruesome stuff

these are not bad kids these are sick kids

sweet as chocolate when (very limited) reasonably centered

 

[Elley Mae]

Interesting. That gives us a little insight into his home life. Mom may have been in denial about his violence outside the home. Didn't want others to know what was going on. I'm still shocked at the number of guns he owned. She must have been helping him purchase them, it seemed like a pretty expensive collection.

Some could have belonged to Mr. Cruz (deceased).

 

[rosemadderlake]

You nailed it Safeguard, thanks.

Back in the early 1970's there was much discussion among child behaviorists about the future effects of those
'newfangled' community day care centers where working moms started dumping their babies every day.

Many articles 'Predicted' we were raising a whole generation of Sociopaths due to this new phenomenon.
Parents were no longer 'raising' their own children but instead putting their emotional and physical rearing into the
hands of minimum wage daycare workers. As I said this was all predicted for our kid's future problems.

This is so memorable to me because my children were very young in 70's and I was looking at needing to go to work outside the home. Fortunate for me I was able to delay needing childcare until my children were a little older and in school full time.

Every single time I see news about another young person going off the rails, I am reminded of the debate of the 70's.
We seem to have that generation of sociopaths amongst us now. Can't turn back the clock and undo the damage.

This is also the time when divorce became much more acceptable and as families split apart children had schedules and lives that could rival a corporate schedule shuttled between families, daycare, school, etc. Then there were the "latch key" kids in the 80's.

I think the sociological aspect of children's lives is really different in "this modern world". For instance, in the 60's there was no McDonald's, three channels on the TV if you were lucky, cartoon time Saturday morning (that was it), no meds (many weren't developed until decades later), before big Agra when food had better nutritional value, and a time of much more permanent roots, real estate was for living, not flipping, when renting was affordable, when jobs lasted a lifetime, before Malls, before shopping on Sunday, way before technology. -A time when kids walked everywhere, biked, played street games, little league, explored the woods, gathered at public swimming holes, the beach, rivers, lakes, etc., etc. Read books. And worshiped (some very reluctantly), Sunday dinner with extended families. It was a simpler time. Lifelong friendships were formed. Because life was simpler.

While I know many families seek to provide that consistency, lifestyles are often contrary, and I have wondered if the use of social media is a born out of a longing for "the neighborhood".

We are seeing such a rise in certain conditions, childhood diabetes, autism, ADHD, and kids are prescribed drugs. It's not that this is new or didn't exist before; schizophrenia still manafests in the late teens early twenties, but I wonder about the effect of an inert lifestyle on children.

A child's energy could power the space shuttle... Where does it go when Phys Ed and music programs are cut, when there's no neighborhood to run around in, when their lives are so proscribed? As they are shuffled around is their connection, their desire for the neighborhood found in their little glowing devices?

A few years ago I remember this 2014 article out of New Zealand about a principle who believes a playground with no rules was a better way. The premise being, let kids fall down and figure out. It's a lot like my growing up.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/dateline/story/no-rules-school

And what is happening to the disenfranchised ones? We know gangs are a substitute family. And so are these radical groups and connections online. They fill the gap of what's missing, a sense of belonging? What are the commonalities of disenfranchisement? This brings me to the question of what is missing in this demographic of shooters?

We can look at the mental and sociological aspects but truth is if a radical "gang", or thinking, is so readily accessible online, if hate is the new love, if the ways and means to commit an atrocity is readily available, and the gang rewards it as heroism, I am not sure there is a category in the diagnostic manual for this?

 

[enelram]

CNN now announcing news from FBI that they received a tip about Cruz as a dangerous risk on Jan 5. No steps were taken to forward it to the Miami field office.

just like the tip from the Ms. guy about wanting to be a 'professional school shooter' had "NO CONNECTION TO SOUTH
FLORIDA" even though they glossed over whether or not they even looked into it. OK. FBI is in some hot water.

 

[Tillicum]

I'm going to jump in here to say that anything that will help to reduce or stop these school shootings is going to take time to put into effect. In the meantime IMO our schools need to be properly secured or we will continue to see these tragedies. We need more armed guards, fences and metal detectors at our schools now. My God this is so frightening.

 

[TooCurious]

Everything that was needed to stop this shooting before it happened was in place. We had failures at mulitple levels, the FBI is a big one but school and local officials are just as responsible as FBI. FBI didnt do there job but they are also removed from the situation. The local guys were right there and had access to all the history and information about Cruz and actually had contact with him. Like I said earlier, I hope each family sues the school district, the police force, and all that didn't do their job.

 

[jggordo]

Sad when i found out how old she was when she passed

it is hard enough managing a child with autism -- at that age I cant imagine

there was one thing on one of the calls they read that was like he was beating her it was like geriatric assault or something like that

now, don't know if it could have been the other way around but those were the words

there is also some judgement error in posting his professional school shooter under your correct name

a 10 year old might not consider such but....

folks good on SM can you check out the dates of some of the postings if there still around

I am curious about how they surround OCt nov when she died

and if there was an uptick in aggressive postings during the timeframe mom was very sick

It is sad to what extent people in general will go to avoid discussing much less doing anything about mental illness. Untold amounts of money thrown at it to try and just make it go away out of sight so as not to see it or admit to it. There is currently a case here on WS about a kid who grew up with mental health issues. Long story short his family had issues if their won. The kid becomes a ward of the State. The State puts him in a home and pays them to basically keep him out of Court. The Group home reports him missing. He was murdered and encased in concrete in a storage place for who knows how long while the Group Home kept cashing the checks from the State. Nobody even checked on him or his welfare.

The case here at WS doesn't get much attention either. It's just not sensational enough I guess.

JMO

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?336100-MO-Carl-DeBrodie-31-Fulton-17-April-2017

OT: Cariis, we know you can't type. Your mind just works faster than your fingers. Get a slice of chocolate cake, and take a breath that always helps. LOL

 

[Elley Mae]

Snip

According to reports, Cruz and his brother both suffered from mental health issues, including ADHD and OCD, and took medication as treatment.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/1...fbi-cops-school-but-warning-signs-missed.html

The FBI revealed Friday that they received a tip last month that Nikolas Cruz, the 19-year-old accused of killing 17 people on Valentine's Day, had a gun, wanted to “kill people” and had the “potential of him conducting a school shooting.”

The FBI admitted it did not follow proper protocol as the information was not provided to the Miami field office and "no further investigation was conducted at the time."

 

[Bravo]

Correct me if mistaken but I thought the FBI could not do anything under current Law as the threat was not specific enough.

 

[CARIIS]

Maybe Beef Bourguinon?

https://www.google.com/search?clien....1264...33i160k1j0i67k1j0i131k1.0.M6--rvxWeMo

that is it TY!!!!

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

THREAT
http://www.11alive.com/mobile/artic...dgun-found-in-book-bag-at-lanier-hs/519644608
THREAT
http://www.cbs46.com/story/37512924...ossible-threats-made-to-high-school/701204620
**LIVE
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-campus-in-washington/?utm_term=.4a1fd9a126c5

THERE IS NO END IN SIGHT!
So sad!
MOO

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[enelram]

CNN now announcing news from FBI that they received a tip about Cruz as a dangerous risk on Jan 5. No steps were taken to forward it to the Miami field office.

So the tipster was someone very close to Cruz, KNEW he had an assault rifle and knew he had posted threatening
comments on social media. Wow, talk about handing good info over to FBI. Wonder how that tipster feels today?

 

[watergirl62]

Somewhere in Cruz's past, he learned that you could solve problems if you had a gun. Where would this type thinking
come from? I'm serious. Is this the way his brain worked to solve problems in your life? Sounds like the same
thinking Adam Lanza had. Is this from psychotropic drugs? Serious disconnect going on here.
So his mother was around when he bought the gun. didn't she see it in his room? didn't she worry about this?

I think these loner kids seem to have a secret yet intense urgency to their need to belong.

The internet and SM seems analogous to an accelerated sorting hat... even though the lost and lonely souls don't really know who they are yet or where they belong they tend to glom on to groups and labels that appeal to some aspect of what they think is cool or admirable.

Once they do find something that resonates for whatever reason, it becomes like a proclamation and it snowballs from there. This is me! Appeal to fandom to obsession can escalate rather quickly.

Same normal growth stages we went through once upon a time when we were kids, but the internet is not a playground and it is a dangerous place to let our less stable lonely kids grow up without supervision. These kids need more boundaries, not unsupervised free reign. IMO

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

FBI got tip on Parkland shooter Nikolas Cruz in January, but didn’t ‘follow protocols’
by Michael Kosnar and Jon Schuppe

Less than six weeks before Nikolas Cruz committed one of the deadliest school shootings in American history, someone who knew him called an FBI tip line to complain about him, the agency revealed on Friday.

But no one followed up.

Cruz shot to death 17 people and injured many more in a Wednesday attack on his former school, Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.

On Jan. 5, the caller left information on Cruz's "gun ownership, desire to kill people, erratic behavior, and disturbing social media posts, as well as the potential of him conducting a school shooting," the FBI said in a statement...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...d-shooter-nikolas-cruz-january-didn-t-n848681

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

Everything that was needed to stop this shooting before it happened was in place. We had failures at mulitple levels, the FBI is a big one but school and local officials are just as responsible as FBI. FBI didnt do there job but they are also removed from the situation. The local guys were right there and had access to all the history and information about Cruz and actually had contact with him. Like I said earlier, I hope each family sues the school district, the police force, and all that didn't do their job.

Can they sue the FBI?????
Honest question.
MOO

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

So the tipster was someone very close to Cruz, KNEW he had an assault rifle and knew he had posted threatening
comments on social media. Wow, talk about handing good info over to FBI. Wonder how that tipster feels today?

I hope that tipster is still alive today!
IF he is one of the victims, then this will ramp up for sure.
MOO

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[TooCurious]

Can they sue the FBI?????
Honest question.
MOO

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Yes, they can.