FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #4

[rotterdam]

While pointing out discrepencies in various stories, how about this:


"I figured that they had gone to the movies, because they had said they might"

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20581404,00.html

While visiting his father, Tracey Martin, in the upscale, gated community known as the Retreat at Twin Lakes, Trayvon took a walk in the rain to a nearby store, telling his father he was going for some candy.

Read more: http://blogcritics.org/politics/article/seventeen-year-old-trayvon-martin-shot/#ixzz1q5AjyrH2

That blogcritics thingy is not exactly MSM, also snipped from same article another nonsense statement

"The girl, from near Miami Gardens, Florida told investigators, "He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on.” She said, “Then he lost sight of the man":what:.

 

[csziggy]

No, 13 year old boy is not the one who reported GZ was wearing a white t-shirt. <modsnip>

From my notes of the 911 calls - Call #4 - the woman who sounds really young but who told the 911 operator that she is 30 years old. "someone screaming, sounds male; gunshot - one; guy on top had white t-shirt"

Quotes are for my notes, not to indicate verbatim transcript.

The young man (was that the 13 year old boy?) who was walking his dog did not describe clothing for either person in the 911 call that his sister originated. (call #8)

The call #s are from the naming of the mpg files on the Sanford site.

 

[RANCH]

This law is so vague and broad that no injuries are necessary at all.
But Zimmerman would not be covered if he initiated the fight.

Your right. That's why the lack of eye-witness's to their first contact make it pretty tough to say what happened and in what order. JMO.

 

[songline]

So we are supposed to believe this witness?

But we aren't supposed to believe Trayvon's own mother that the screams were those of her son?

If there is a recording it can be tested.

 

[jjenny]

From my notes of the 911 calls - Call #4 - the woman who sounds really young but who told the 911 operator that she is 30 years old. "someone screaming, sounds male; gunshot - one; guy on top had white t-shirt"

Quotes are for my notes, not to indicate verbatim transcript.

The young man (was that the 13 year old boy?) who was walking his dog did not describe clothing for either person in the 911 call that his sister originated. (call #8)

The call #s are from the naming of the mpg files on the Sanford site.

I saw an article that claim 13 year old saw a man in red (Zimmerman) on the ground. But on 911 call nothing is said about what the man he saw was wearing.

 

[jjenny]

If there is a recording it can be tested.

Well I hope so.

 

[LambChop]

I guess we interpret the statute differently. I see someone striking blows to your head as reason enough for force to prevent great bodily harm to be used.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html

But how would he have struck a blow to the back of GZ's head when TM was shot through the chest and was lying face down on the ground.?

 

[rotterdam]

I'm not seeing the discrepency.

His father went out for dinner with GF. However, we do not know when. Could be shortly after Tray left for his trip to 7-11. I do not really see a discrepancy either. Besides it is not from an MSM article.

 

[vlpate]

Definitely agree with your post Sensei. First and foremost, the police department isn't going to risk someone coming back and suing them for not taking them for needed medical care so this whole argument about his injuries is bullcrap.

I don't think sleuthing his injuries are bullc***, they are part of what happened - one can't just ignore documented facts and expect one's theory to be taken seriously, IMO.

 

[jjenny]

Your right. That's why the lack of eye-witness's to their first contact make it pretty tough to say what happened and in what order. JMO.

If Zimmerman initiated physical contact he shouldn't be covered by "stand your ground" law but he obviously claims he didn't. I think it's pretty clear at some point of time the two of them were fighting on the ground.
And Zimmerman could very well have been the one on the bottom.

 

[annalia]

TM had every right to be in this same gated community as well.

Sent from LG Esteem using Tapatalk

ITA

And I'm not sure why it makes that much difference just because 911 didn't say we demand that you stop, they were still pretty forceful when they said "ok we don't need you to to do that" and as a Neighborhood Watch Captain, he would know that 911 says it for a reason.

But in any event, he did make the choice to ignore it so it still goes towards intent and motive. Then add in his "these *advertiser censored******** always get away" and calling him an effin ****, which also goes torwards intent and motive.

JMHO

 

[jjenny]

But how would he have struck a blow to the back of GZ's head when TM was shot through the chest and was lying face down on the ground.?

There were clearly fighting at some point of time. On 911 call witnesses describe them as "wrestling." Zimmerman could have been the one on the ground and his head got injured that way. They could have been rolling.
There are many possibilities how his head could have been injured.

 

[vlpate]

But how would he have struck a blow to the back of GZ's head when TM was shot through the chest and was lying face down on the ground.?

They turned him at some point, IIRC.... where did you read he was shot through the chest? I've never seen anything official on his wounds. TIA

 

[Boytwnmom]

was black. That was another lie first uttered by the police chief-that initially GZ didn't know his race. That is completely negated by the 911 call where GZ clearly, always and only identified Trayvon as black. It's hard to discuss when these mistruths keep being repeated despite having been dispelled numerous times. He never indicated anything other than that Trayvon was black.

Old Navy will not go out of business because no one listens to Geraldo that has any sense, especially the demographic that shops Old Navy. However, to be naive about the function a hoodie has in countless crimes is to put yourself in danger. The ones used in crime, don't normally have embellishments and are usually black, gray, or white. The hoodie is used to hide the identity of the criminal. Victims of home invasions, store robberies, and car jackings whose attackers have never been captured probably don't think of hoodies the same way you do anymore. And yes, 17 yr old criminals wear them too. That is NOT to say Trayvon should have been targeted because he was wearing a hoodie - I don't even know where that came from. Zimmerman simply described what Trayvon was wearing. I assume Trayvon had the hoodie on since Zimmerman did not initially know his ethnicity.

 

[Sensei]

There were clearly fighting at some point of time. On 911 call witnesses describe them as "wrestling." Zimmerman could have been the one on the ground and his head got injured that way. They could have been rolling.
There are many possibilities how his head could have been injured.

The question of how he got on the ground however is paramount, just because he was the one on the bottom does not particularly mean that he is not the one who made the first agressive contact...it could mean that he started a fight by pushing or grabbing, but he was losing....

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Your right. That's why the lack of eye-witness's to their first contact make it pretty tough to say what happened and in what order. JMO.

But there is a witness who stated that she heard no punching or anything to indicate a fight right before the shot.

 

[jjenny]

But there is a witness who stated that she heard no punching or anything to indicate a fight right before the shot.

Well that seem to contradict what was said in another 911 call. Link below has partial transcripts.

"Caller: "Police. I just heard a shot behind my house. They are wrestling outside the back of my porch.""
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/20/911-calls-paint-picture-of-chaos-after-florida-teen-is-shot/

 

[LambChop]

I apologize Salem dear, just saw this. I do not know all, or really, any details of the cases, which I stated earlier when asked by another member. Yes it is MSM and I believe all are from Florida.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/article1221412.ece

"The Times analysis shows that more than 70 percent of the 130 cases involved a fatality.

In the majority of the cases, the person who plunged the knife or swung the bat or pulled the trigger did not face a trial.

In 50 of the cases, the person who used force was never charged with a crime. Another nine defendants were granted immunity by a judge, and nine cases were dismissed."

This was also in the article:

As far as I'm concerned, that neighborhood watch guy was breaking that law as soon as he started following that kid. He was stalking him. That's not standing your ground," said Rep. Richard "Rich" Glorioso, R-Plant City, who voted for the bill. "If the law is applied right, it's a fine law. But we worried about how people would interpret it, and how it would be applied, when we were discussing it."

Therein lies the problem.

The analysis shows the law is being unevenly applied across the state. A case that's dropped in Tampa might make it to a jury trial in Miami.

Hayhoe said the Martin case shows a clear need for reconsideration.

He's surprised it hasn't happened earlier.

 

[RANCH]

But there is a witness who stated that she heard no punching or anything to indicate a fight right before the shot.

Heard no punching? I didn't know that punching someone makes a loud noise. Well only in old movies. And no other witness's heard a commotion before the gunshot?

 

[daisy7]

SANFORD, Fla -- George Michael Zimmerman, the man at the center of the racially charged killing of an unarmed black teen, is a former altar boy, insurance salesman and college student.

And another label has also stuck in the public&#8217;s perception: frustrated cop wannabe.

Over the years, his scores of calls to police showed he pursued shoplifters and errant drivers with zeal, reporting pit bulls, potholes, children playing in the street, open garage doors and &#8220;suspicious&#8221; youths &#8212; usually black males &#8212; loitering in the street.

He peppered his calls with jargon familiar to police. In one case, he chased a reckless driver while calling 911 &#8212; the driver later told police he was terrified that Zimmerman was going to attack him. In another case, Zimmerman tailed a supermarket shoplifter until a police officer successfully arrested the thief.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/23/2712299/george-zimmerman-self-appointed.html#storylink=cpy