FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #4

[Wise Old Owl]

I had my nose broke playing shortstop, I looked like a racoon..not to mention the pain of getting it set!

Sent from LG Esteem using Tapatalk

Exactly!!!! IF GZ had a broken nose - well then, he would have looked horrible. Common sense and logic (which have been oddly absent in this so far) would tell me that IF GZ had gotten a broken nose during a confrontation that ended with him shooting someone dead - then wouldn't there have been pictures taken of this injury? So, where are these pictures? Do they exist?


JMHO

 

[rotterdam]

But how would he have struck a blow to the back of GZ's head when TM was shot through the chest and was lying face down on the ground.?

If Tray(he was an athlete) popped him a good one on the nose while defending himself, it could have knocked him over backwards and cut the back of his head. He could have shot at standing Tray while GZ was still laying down. Tray could have staggered and fell forwards with his hands on his chest. All speculation of course. How the bullet entered Tray's chest(angle of entry) and from what distance could reveal a lot. And hopefully that info is still retrievable.

 

[jjenny]

This is the Neighborhood Watch Program Handbook posted on the City of Sanford's website in its TM section.

From the third page of the Neighborhood Watch Program Handbook, right hand column, bottom of page:

"<snip> You will add your “eyes and ears” to
those of the Police Department which
cannot be everywhere, all the time, by
keeping a watchful eye and open ear to
what is happening in your
neighborhood. You will extend their
ability to provide security by reporting
anything unusual or suspicious, 24 hours
a day, seven days a week, so they can
follow up on your leads. What you will
not do is get physically involved with
any activity you report or
apprehension of any suspicious
persons. This is the job of the law enforcement agency.<snip>"

I think it's obvious by having this rule they are trying to avoid exactly the kind of situation we are discussing here.

 

[jjenny]

If Tray(he was an athlete) popped him a good one on the nose while defending himself, it could have knocked him over backwards and cut the back of his head. He could have shot at standing Tray while GZ was still laying down. Tray could have staggered and fell forwards. All speculation of course. How the bullet entered Tray's chest(angle of entry) and from what distance could reveal a lot. And hopefully that info is still retrievable.

I saw some articles claiming Trayvon was shot in the chest but I don't believe police report says anything about the location of the wound.

 

[vlpate]

was black. That was another lie first uttered by the police chief-that initially GZ didn't know his race. That is completely negated by the 911 call where GZ clearly, always and only identified Trayvon as black. It's hard to discuss when these mistruths keep being repeated despite having been dispelled numerous times. He never indicated anything other than that Trayvon was black.

If he knew his race definitively, he would have given a definitive answer. Also, if one cared to notice, he had to be asked the race - before that, Zimmerman just said "guy".

GZ: Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there's this real suspicious guy retreat view circle, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good or he's on drugs or something -- he's just walking around, looking about..
Dispatcher: ... and this guy's white, black, or hispanic?

"GZ: He looks black..
Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?
GZ: Yeah, a dark hoodie, like a gray hoodie and either jeans or sweat pants and white tennis shoes. (unintelligible)..he's just staring
Dispatcher: Oh, he's just walking around the area?
GZ: Looking at all the houses
Dispathcher: oh ok
GZ: He's just staring at me.
Dispatcher: Ok you said it is 1111 (Patridge?) or 111?
GZ: That's the club house
Dispatcher: He's near the club house right now?
GZ: Yeah, now he's coming towards me
Dispatcher: Ok
GZ: He's got his hand in his waistband. Yeah, he's a black male
_______________________________
BEM: keep in mind, he had a hood over his head at some point and it may have been hard to tell.

 

[rotterdam]

ITA

And I'm not sure why it makes that much difference just because 911 didn't say we demand that you stop, they were still pretty forceful when they said "ok we don't need you to to do that" and as a Neighborhood Watch Captain, he would know that 911 says it for a reason.

But in any event, he did make the choice to ignore it so it still goes towards intent and motive. Then add in his "these *advertiser censored******** always get away" and calling him an effin ****, which also goes torwards intent and motive.

JMHO

BBM. May be GZ was referring to himself?:waitasec:

 

[songline]

Why wouldn't the attorney know for sure what the extent of his injuries were and how he got them. jmo

Because they are trained not to disclose very much in the media.

 

[Sensei]

If Tray(he was an athlete) popped him a good one on the nose while defending himself, it could have knocked him over backwards and cut the back of his head. He could have shot at standing Tray while GZ was still laying down. Tray could have staggered and fell forwards with his hands on his chest. All speculation of course. How the bullet entered Tray's chest(angle of entry) and from what distance could reveal a lot. And hopefully that info is still retrievable.

Which is precisely what the Attorney says, the major question is going to be, did Trayvon, without hanging up the phone, and apropo of nothing, the person who has been attempting to avoid confrontation suddenly without warning just punch GZ in the face, or did GZ the person who all evidence shows was willing to go to an amount of trouble to have a confrontation, the one who was completely invested in having a confrontation, even ignoring instructions to not do so, attempt to grab, or restrain, or put his hands on Trayvon FIRST....I don't know which one happened, but I certainly know which one I believe is most likely IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Well that seem to contradict what was said in another 911 call. Link below has partial transcripts.

"Caller: "Police. I just heard a shot behind my house. They are wrestling outside the back of my porch.""
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/20/911-calls-paint-picture-of-chaos-after-florida-teen-is-shot/

There is a call on this website (call #2, I believe), http://www.sanfordfl.gov/frames/home_frames.html where yelling goes on in the background for 45 seconds before the shot. I'm going to have to assume it was going on before she called or she wouldn't have called.

Yes, I see. There is much contradictory information out there.

However, the interview is from the eyewitness's own mouth and the other sources are secondhand.

That doesn't mean they are inaccurate, and I am well aware of how unreliable eyewitness testimony can be, but this woman seems very sure of what she saw and did or did not hear.

 

[songline]

BBM. May be GZ was referring to himself?:waitasec:

I don’t think it was intent and motive.
I think it was HOT headedness and the need to be
in a "good guy roll" save the people.
Sadly Ego got in the way.

 

[jjenny]

Yes, I see. There is much contradictory information out there.

However, the interview is from the eyewitness's own mouth and the other sources are secondhand.

That doesn't mean they are inaccurate, and I am well aware of how unreliable eyewitness testimony can be, but this woman seems very sure of what she saw and did or did not hear.

911 call from the witness who said the two of them were "wrestling" is not second-hand. The woman (MC) might have not heard any punching or anything, but that doesn't mean the two of them weren't fighting, it only means she didn't hear it.

 

[Isabelle]

Wonder if Zimmerman is in Virginia with his parents?

Would like to mail him a black hoodie and dare him to walk the streets wearing it!

 

[ynotdivein]

If he knew his race definitively, he would have given a definitive answer. Also, if one cared to notice, he had to be asked the race - before that, Zimmerman just said "guy".

GZ: Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there's this real suspicious guy retreat view circle, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good or he's on drugs or something -- he's just walking around, looking about..
Dispatcher: ... and this guy's white, black, or hispanic?

"GZ: He looks black..
Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?
GZ: Yeah, a dark hoodie, like a gray hoodie and either jeans or sweat pants and white tennis shoes. (unintelligible)..he's just staring
Dispatcher: Oh, he's just walking around the area?
GZ: Looking at all the houses
Dispathcher: oh ok
GZ: He's just staring at me.
Dispatcher: Ok you said it is 1111 (Patridge?) or 111?
GZ: That's the club house
Dispatcher: He's near the club house right now?
GZ: Yeah, now he's coming towards me
Dispatcher: Ok
GZ: He's got his hand in his waistband. Yeah, he's a black male
_______________________________
BEM: keep in mind, he had a hood over his head at some point and it may have been hard to tell.

Vlpate, do you have a link to this version of the transcript?

 

[vlpate]

the people supporting him have to respond to whatever some unrelated group says because they're black too? Am I responsible for the Ku Klux Klan or the Westboro Baptist Church ? Just because some crazy fringe group is trying to get publicity by saying something outrageous

Absofrigginglutely. If Sharpton and Jackson want to make this a federal case, if the family and their lawyer want to take Trayvon's girlfriend to ABC instead of LE and try the case in the court of public opinion, then, yes, they need to quell the potential violence they lit a very short wick to, JMO.

<snipped>

 

[Dr.Fessel]

If Tray(he was an athlete) popped him a good one on the nose while defending himself, it could have knocked him over backwards and cut the back of his head. He could have shot at standing Tray while GZ was still laying down. Tray could have staggered and fell forwards with his hands on his chest. All speculation of course. How the bullet entered Tray's chest(angle of entry) and from what distance could reveal a lot. And hopefully that info is still retrievable.

Yeah, I hope that narcotics officer got all that down.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Because they are trained not to disclose very much in the media.

But if his client is claiming self-defense I would expect him to be publicizing those injuries high and low to support that claim.

 

[vlpate]

Vlpate, do you have a link to this version of the transcript?

I took this, verbatim from the 911 call here: http://www.sanfordfl.gov/frames/home_frames.html

 

[rotterdam]

I saw some articles claiming Trayvon was shot in the chest but I don't believe police report says anything about the location of the wound.

This is from http://www.change.org/petitions/prosecute-the-killer-of-our-son-17-year-old-trayvon-martin

Snipped

"Trayvon's killer, George Zimmerman, admitted to police that he shot Trayvon in the chest. Zimmerman, the community's self appointed "neighborhood watch leader," called the police to report a suspicious person when he saw Travyon, a young black man, walking from the store. But Zimmerman still hasn't been charged for murdering our son".

Since this is from Tray's parents who received his body and talked to SPD, I would consider it a valid source as to location of the fatal wound.

 

[Isabelle]

Does anyone know how long Zimmerman owned his gun and how long has he had a license to carry a concealed weapon?

 

[mikeysmommom]

The broken nose is the one that just floors me....If you have a broken nose, and do not get immediate treatment you could have a crooked nose, you could end up with a deviated septum, or a nose that you can't breathe through for the rest of your life....and if you wait to get it treated, they may have to rebreak it to attempt to set it straight....broken noses are common and some think they are simple and kinda minor, but they can be anything but that, and I do NOT see LE allowing him to go to the station and not the hospital for treatment if he actually had a broken nose, JMHO and stuff

If he was in shock from what had happened he might have not realized his nose was broken. My husband was very sick ,I finally had EMT's rush him to the hospital.EMT took his blood pressure could not find it,as soon as he got into ER they took his blood pressure which was so low they ran and hooked him up to a medicine to raise his pressure.My husband was almost dead it went so low.EMT's never told the ER they could not find his blood pressure.He was on the highest dose for 4 days before his pressure was still very low but they slowly weened him off it.The ER Nurse saved him,IMO EMT's almost killed him by not doing anything when they could not find a reading.Not every EMT is on the ball IMO.Another ER nurse was fighting with me about my hubbys medicines,she insisted he took pills I knew he did not take.After fighting me for a half hour she looks at name on file it was NOT my hubby's file.In 8th grade I broke my finger,school nurse said it was fine.It swelled up and hurt like crazy as soon as I got home my mom saw it took me to Hospital it was broken and had started to set they wanted to re break it I refused.After seeing a dead teen,they may not have really cared too much if he did have a broken nose in the situation.Just saying.