FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #4

[vlpate]

This site is not msm but he has an overhead diagram of the neighborhood, truck, etc. If accurate it could be helpful. Moo

http://marinadedave.com/journal/2012/3/22/the-tragedy-of-trayvon-martin.html

Wow, the pics are good, the commentary, not so much, lol.

 

[vlpate]

Maybe a more thorough investigation and CSI reports will reveal what sort of defensive wounds Trayvon may have had.

Following is not against the law. Putting your hands on someone is. According to the gf - she heard GZ say something to the effect "what are you doing here" - so GZ was right there with Trayvon. Again - common sense and logic tells me that regardless of what Trayvon said to him, he wasn't going to let him get away and therefore reached out and grabbed him by the arm. Trayvon now, felling threatened, punched GZ in the nose is an effort to try to get away - or at least get GZ's hand off him.

What we need to know - and probably never will - is who put whose hands on the other one FIRST. Whoever that was became the aggressor.

Again, common sense and logic tells me that Trayvon did not "touch" GZ first - we know he was afraid and had relayed to his gf that "some dude was following him" so why would he touch him? Elude and evade - that's why Trayvon was probably trying to do, yet GZ caught up to him and grabbed a hold of him.

JMHO (an opinion is all we will ever have of this - GZ will never say he touched Trayvon first and Trayvon can't speak for himself)

 

[JeannaT]

A human being was killed - that is a homicide. While charges have not been filed, this is still a homicide case. Why are you trying to deny that it is?

Um, no. When a human being was killed it could be suicide, a complete accident, or manslaughter, self-defense OR it could be homicide.

A human death isn't necessarily murder.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Here's something else that has bothered me. Reading the police report it says in one of the statements that another officer arrived and tried to "get a response" from Trayvon. Really? As an LE you arrive on scene and see someone face down with arms underneath and all you do is try to get a response from them? Really? Wouldn't you check first to see what injury that person has that caused them to be face down with arms underneath? I found that very odd. What did that officer do? Walk up to Trayvon, bend down and say "hey, guy, what happened?' Really? C'mon.


JMHO

 

[jjenny]

Here's something else that has bothered me. Reading the police report it says in one of the statements that another officer arrived and tried to "get a response" from Trayvon. Really? As an LE you arrive on scene and see someone face down with arms underneath and all you do is try to get a response from them? Really? Wouldn't you check first to see what injury that person has that caused them to be face down with arms underneath? I found that very odd. What did that officer do? Walk up to Trayvon, bend down and say "hey, guy, what happened?' Really? C'mon.


JMHO

They say they did CPR on him.

 

[LolaMoon08]

The green astrisk is where the altercation happened. The red @ is the entrance to the community. The yellow & is where Trayvon's father's girlfriend lives. The large arrows are where GZ told the dispatcher he was. The map and the other markings are by lolamoon08. I would have to dig up her post to find out what they mean.

I am not the one who made this map. I quoted from another poster. I know it's a simple mistake, but I just want everyone to know that I did not post or make this map and the credit should go to the person who did make it.

 

[rotterdam]

I agree that if GZ put his hands on Trayvon first he would not be covered under "stand your ground" law. He would also not be covered if he run after Trayvon after their fight. But common sense does not equal "beyond the reasonable doubt," so prosecution would need to prove it.

Well let us look at a another way. From the few facts we have so far and that is not many.
Do I believe GZ's account of what occurred beyond reasonable doubt?
Nope, not by a long shot.

 

[jjenny]

Well let us look at a another way. From the few facts we have so far and that is not many.
Do I believe GZ's account of what occurred beyond reasonable doubt?
Nope, not by a long shot.

I am not even sure what GZ's account is, since we haven't seen it.
Also, under "stand your ground" law prosecution would have burden of proof, not GZ.

 

[rotterdam]

Um, no. When a human being was killed it could be suicide, a complete accident, or manslaughter, self-defense OR it could be homicide.

A human death isn't necessarily murder.

Homicide is any death that is directly caused by another human. Whether accidental or on purpose. Including non criminal like execution by death penalty, euthanasia if legal etc.

 

[SuziQ]

Opinion piece.

Richard Hornsby was quoted. He's a legit source for legal info. He's a verified attorney and member of WS.

But here's an msm link for you.
http://www.witn.com/news/headlines/...te_Trayvon_Martin_Case_143607846.html?ref=846

 

[jjenny]

Richard Hornsby was quoted. He's a legit source for legal info. He's a verified attorney and member of WS.

But here's an msm link for you.
http://www.witn.com/news/headlines/...te_Trayvon_Martin_Case_143607846.html?ref=846

And others have expressed opinions that this law applies to Zimmerman (assuming Zimmerman hasn't attacked first).
The law clearly doesn't say Zimmeran had to be in his home or truck for law to apply to him. He can be anywhere he can legally be.

 

[rotterdam]

I am not even sure what GZ's account is, since we haven't seen it.
Also, under "stand your ground" law prosecution would have burden of proof, not GZ.

You are right. We only have what the (ex) Chief said/Buonoparte statement and GZ's lawyer. But I presume they are just repeating GZ's account without embellishments. And who knows may be GZ's statement is still a work in progress.

 

[SuziQ]

And others have expressed opinions that this law applies to Zimmerman (assuming Zimmerman hasn't attacked first).
The law clearly doesn't say Zimmeran had to be in his home or truck for law to apply to him. He can be anywhere he can legally be.

Huh? :waitasec:

 

[vlpate]

More recent picture of George Zimmerman - the one that's been in the media is from 7 years ago and was a mugshot. If Mediate is a good source, I'll post the article.

http://static01.mediaite.com/med/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Picture-138-300x224.png

 

[LolaMoon08]

Holy cow!!!!!!! This link has the 47 pages of previous 911 calls. So long I have a lot of reading to do.

http://marinadedave.com/journal/2012/3/22/the-tragedy-of-trayvon-martin.html

I'm sorry, but George Zimmerman is <modsnip>!! So many things to comment on, but I am so tired and took notes. I'll say what I think tomorrow.

ETA: I suggest everyone reads these 911 call records. My mind is spinning!

 

[vlpate]

I am not the one who made this map. I quoted from another poster. I know it's a simple mistake, but I just want everyone to know that I did not post or make this map and the credit should go to the person who did make it.

I didn't see another poster's name on your post.....lawdy. Maybe they'll say something when they see it. Thanks!

 

[jjenny]

Huh? :waitasec:

All I was trying to say is that expert have varying opinions. And one thing I have no clue whatsoever as to why Zimmerman's lawyer would argue it didn't apply.

From that same article you linked to:

"Legal experts, gun-rights advocates and gun-control groups contacted by msnbc.com offered varying opinions on whether Zimmerman can avoid criminal charges under Stand Your Ground."

http://www.witn.com/news/headlines/...te_Trayvon_Martin_Case_143607846.html?ref=846

 

[vlpate]

With his ear phones. He is a very handsome young man. Sad.

https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/369344_1353307542_1049213158_n.jpg

 

[marauder]

Here's something else that has bothered me. Reading the police report it says in one of the statements that another officer arrived and tried to "get a response" from Trayvon. Really? As an LE you arrive on scene and see someone face down with arms underneath and all you do is try to get a response from them? Really? Wouldn't you check first to see

I depends. Police occasionally taze accident victims for being too injured to "obey orders." Or for being deaf or mute or disabled and "refusing to cooperate." In one case a guy who fell off a viaduct and broke his back was taze tortured for an hour or so for not obeying their order to stand up.

 

[csziggy]

This is not nice to think about but does anyone know what an entry wound and exit wound would look like from a 9mm gun shot? I know sometimes it is hard to tell. jmo

I didn't find pictures specifically of 9mm wounds but here is a description of entrance and exit wounds in general: http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/entrance-and-exit-wounds.html

I did google entrance wounds - most were small round holes, pretty clean.

Then I googled exit wounds and those vary a lot. It probably depends on a number of factors what an exit wound looks like - how far away the weapon was, the speed of the bullet, whether it hit bone as it traveled through the body, what it might have hit as it entered the body (clothes, objects outside the body), etc. If a bullet is slow traveling and tumbles, it will do more damage inside the body and make a larger exit wound. If it hits bone, that can make it tumble even if it is moving faster.

CAUTION - if you google wounds, be sure you can stomach the results. Many of the images are pretty horrific and quite a few show dead people and animals.

Anything other than what is in the article is my opinion only.