FL - 17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #5

[m00c0w]

9mm is a big bullet and they make a big exit wound. It is bigger then all the bellow bullets except for the 50cal.

.50 BMG Rimless and Bottleneck 5.45 in / 138 mm Machine guns and sniper rifles 0.51 in / 12.95 mm

.308 Winchester Rimless and bottleneck 2.800 in / 71.1 mm Police sharp shooting and short action rifles 0.308 in / 7.8 mm

3 7.62 x 39 mm Rimless 2.205 in / 56.00 mm Common rifles 0.311 in / 7.89 m

4 5.56 x 45mm NATO Rimless and bottleneck 2.260 in / 57.40 mm M16 assault rifles 0.224 in / 5.7 mm

.22 LR Rim fire and straight 0.985 in / 25.0 mm Pistols and Revolvers 0.222 in / 5.6 mm

Any particular reason why you're listing off high-powered rifle rounds*? All of these rounds* inflict considerably more damage than a 9mm because of how they tumble. The 9mm round also has worse terminal ballistics than all of the listed calibers*, .40 S&W, .357 SIG, and .45 ACP. The size of the entrance wound isn't what causes the bleeding; it's the size of the wound cavity. This also depends on the type of ammunition that was used. If he was using FMJs, the round probably would have passed cleanly through. If he was using JHPs, there may not have even been an exit wound.

*.22LR would not apply to these statements.

 

[Inabsentia]

Expelled is correct but non the les I do not have one friend including myself who were expelled for one day. sorry I used the worng word, incidentally in my mind they both mean that it is a punishment, not a reward.
<modsnip> It is not like a question or a theory.

Songline, I don't understand what you mean in this post at all. I am not trying to be snarky, I can't make sense of it. Do you want me to post the links? Are you genuinely trying to understand why he was suspended? Or are you just trying to intimate that there is something suspicious in Trayvon's having ever committed any sort of infraction at all? Again, I will post the links if you are engaged in a legitimate attempt to understand.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Isn't the reason we post on the forum to discuss why there is a victim? To get a better idea of what could have happened? We really can't get any testimony from TM he is dead. All we have is GZ who admittedly has a history to blaming others (which could be true, we don't know) two sides to every story. Problem is we're not getting TM's side other than from his location when he was shot, which shows he was headed towards the back (GZ reported this himself) and where his condo is. The only information for TM is coming from his gf who was on the phone at the time and indicates TM was trying to get away from GZ.

I seriously doubt that if GZ fired his gun while TM was on top of him and "slid out" from underneath TM's body they would have found his arms under his body with one hand within the other as described by an eye witness. The same witness said GZ never attempted to resitate TM but straddled him and put his hands on his back. TM was no longer a threat so why would he not try to save his life?

These are the issues we need to talk about. GZ is still alive and only he can tell us what happened. He's under no obligation to do so but if this were me and I was innocent I'd be on GMA by now explaining what happened.

Myself I do not think he intended to ever kill TM in cold blood. But something went terribly wrong. His response when LE got to the scene was "I shot someone". That's it. Not he was choking me and I had to shoot him. So when you look at some of the statements by witnesses and some of the reports something just is not right.

At this point GZ has nothing to lose by being honest. If LE believes GZ story it would be a closed case by now...justifiable homocide, but they will not release information because it is not closed. It's still an open investigation which tells me what they thought happened on the night of February 26 is still in question.

If I were Trayvon's parents I'd be asking for the ME to expedite that report or request a second autopsy be done. Let's see how fast they would get that first report. jmo

And hopefully, once there is a full investigation, we will get our answers. I think we are so used to things moving fast with the Sunshine Laws. It's taking longer because they had to bring in a whole new team to investigate. So we'll have to be patient.

I really hope that the entrance cameras or clubhouse cameras caught something? I would like to know exactly where Trayvon was when he "checked Zimmerman out" and where Zimmerman's car was.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

He walked toward him and then started running. Why? Zimmerman is not a scary looking person, was Trayvon, profiling Zimmerman? Scary hispanic dude?

Can't have it both ways, some say he ran because Zimmerman was following him, now, TM was coming toward Zimmerman because Zimmerman was in his path home.

:waitasec: A or B?

Maybe because Zimmerman had been following him and got ahead of him and then Zimmerman was looking in his rear view mirror as Trayvon came up? There is no indication in the call to say if Zimmerman was driving or parked until he got out of the truck and you hear his running foot steps.

 

[vlpate]

Is it still profiling if you're basing your judgement on recently observed behavior?

Is it? I think so.
<snipped respectfully>

I have no idea what happened, but since we don't know, let's be slow to make assumptions based on ruling out things that haven't been sufficiently ruled out.
imho

I agree 100000000000000000000%

Thank you

 

[songline]

I didn't see a witness in the above interview. Was the young man next to TM's mother the witness?

His mom is a pretty women. I felt so sad hearing her.
Was that her other child in the vidio?

 

[LinasK]

Does being a neighborhood watchman give them any authority?

No, it does NOT! I couldn't find the post I thought I posted on the last thread, but I am the Neighborhood Watch person for my block. It is a volunteer position. My only weapons are a Neighborhood Watch sign in my front window, and my dog (which is not a pitbull). I have only called my local LE non-emergency number for suspected break-ins, large numbers of kids loitering (possible gangs), illegal fireworks, and a crazy neighbor who was terrorizing the neighborhood with his driving. Usually I request they do a drive-by.
I will also call mobile 911 for suspected drunk drivers or if I see an accident, broken-down vehicle, or fire.

 

[rossva]

Perhaps, IMO, Dispatchers and 911 folk are trained to say that incase of potential liability. Say they did encourage some one to continue following, and something (as almost did to Zimmerman, per Zimmerman) did happen to the follower; the Dispatcher, or 911 operator could be considered libel.

Advising, not telling.

Okay, well why on earth would LE tell him "we don't need you to do that" if they wanted him to continue to follow him??


Come on already. It is obvious that LE was advising him to not follow him anymore.

 

[vlpate]

Any particular reason why you're listing off high-powered rifle rounds*? All of these rounds* inflict considerably more damage than a 9mm because of how they tumble. The 9mm round also has worse terminal ballistics than all of the listed calibers*, .40 S&W, .357 SIG, and .45 ACP. The size of the entrance wound isn't what causes the bleeding; it's the size of the wound cavity. This also depends on the type of ammunition that was used. If he was using FMJs, the round probably would have passed cleanly through. If he was using JHPs, there may not have even been an exit wound.

*.22LR would not apply to these statements.

I was reading somewhere that the bullet was from the chamber of the gun, if true, is this in any way meaningful? I am gun dumb. TIA

 

[Boytwnmom]

Jewell did nothing, Duke players nada but they were accused. GZ shot and killed Trayvon-he's dead isn't he? Who shot him? Is there any disagreement over that? No, so GZ is not being unfairly targeted. The only issue is whether the killer acted in self defense and since the killer's history and prior actions and words and actions that night are of record and since only the killer has the ability to speak having rendered the other party dead, he has a benefit to be gained from lying about the circumstances of how he came to kill the person and his "story" does not match the facts. There is no evidence he was jumped from behind while looking for a street sign or number but that is the story the police told without ANY investigation.

If someone shot and killed your child wouldn't you expect them to at least be arrested? to have homicide detectives secure the scene and evidence? to have the shooter drug and alcohol tested? etc etc. Everything that happened here can be explained in one simple way, race. GZ saw a black boy and said criminal, shot him and the police come and assume he's a criminal too and so no big deal. They test the victim but not the killer. If anyone thinks this is appropriate justice in this country I think you'll find yourself in a real minority.

BBM

Yes, and I'm not entirely sure that's a direct result of anything other than how the media has portrayed this and certain figures that have gotten involved.

The public was enraged at Robert Jewell and those evil Duke Lacrosse players... What became of them?

ETA: Also, that's some incredibly backwards thinking IMO. He's going to trial, therefore he must be guilty?! Really?

 

[LambChop]

Trayvon had walked toward him in the beginning, let's not forget that.

Coming from the clubhouse there is a sidewalk leading to the main sidewalk. GZ was parked near the mailboxes on his way past the clubhouse to go out the gate so if TM were trying to get to the main sidewalk to go home he would be walking toward GZ. You can see it all on the map. jmo

 

[HiHater]

FWIW, the picture of Trayvon in the Hollister shirt is from 2010...according to Myspace...

To me, he still looks like a child in the most recent pics:

But I still don't understand why the way he looked was relevant at all...

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Any particular reason why you're listing off high-powered rifle rounds*? All of these rounds* inflict considerably more damage than a 9mm because of how they tumble. The 9mm round also has worse terminal ballistics than all of the listed calibers*, .40 S&W, .357 SIG, and .45 ACP. The size of the entrance wound isn't what causes the bleeding; it's the size of the wound cavity. This also depends on the type of ammunition that was used. If he was using FMJs, the round probably would have passed cleanly through. If he was using JHPs, there may not have even been an exit wound.

*.22LR would not apply to these statements.

I was comparing the size of the slugs, the thing that goes in a body when shot. A 9mm makes a big hole in a person when it comes out.

 

[Tulessa]

http://globalgrind.com/news/gerldo-rivera-son-ashamed-commentary-trayvon-martin-hoodie-details

And I am so proud of Geraldo's son for speaking his mind. I said I wasn't getting involved with another case until after my brother's murderer's trial, but someone has to be a voice for these children. Gabriel Miguel Rivera, I salute you. A hoodie? Really Geraldo? What planet are you from? Tsk Tsk and I will be buying my son a new hoodie when the UK Wildcats win the NCAA!

 

[m00c0w]

I was reading somewhere that the bullet was from the chamber of the gun, if true, is this in any way meaningful? I am gun dumb. TIA

It just means he was carrying in what's known as condition one. There is a magazine loaded, and a round in the chamber.

I've also read reports that say the magazine was still fully loaded, while there was no round in the chamber. This can imply many things.

 

[Boytwnmom]

can provide a defense. Nothing against the guy but that's kind of his job. Everyone gets a defense. No one has to believe the defense though.

It has been explained by a verified lawyer (no less) how Zimmerman can still claim self-defense even if he initially followed Trayvon.

 

[m00c0w]

I was comparing the size of the slugs, the thing that goes in a body when shot. A 9mm makes a big hole in a person when it comes out.

Not as big as the other rounds listed (save for the .22LR). And that's even if it comes out. And again, what does this have to do with anything? The size of the entrance wound doesn't matter in terms of hemorrhaging. It's the shot placement plus the wound cavity.

 

[rbrnmw2]

I'm sorry, but any man in a car, just sitting there, watching me, would be scary for me? Do we know if Zimmerman was following in his car? We see where his car was stopped, but did Tray start to run when Zimmerman's car started following him?

ETA: I will be the first person to admit, I do profile men more than women. Any man! I don't care what he looked like. That Craiglist killer sure looked like an unassuming character?

As did Bundy

 

[rossva]

IMO you are reading way more in to what Jeb Bush said then he actually did say. No where does Bush say that Martin was fleeing, and Zimmerman shot him in the back.

"Stand your ground means stand your ground. It doesn't mean chase after somebody who's turned their back," Bush told The Dallas Morning News."


http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._jeb-bush-ground-neighborhood-watch-volunteer

Jeb Bush made a statement that he TM was fleeing and shot in the back



http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._jeb-bush-ground-neighborhood-watch-volunteer

 

[LolaMoon08]

FWIW, the picture of Trayvon in the Hollister shirt is from 2010...according to Myspace...

To me, he still looks like a child in the most recent pics:

But I still don't understand why the way he looked was relevant at all...

Love the grill! I am one of the few people who have no problem with gold teeth? I've worn them for fun. Ha!