GUILTY FL - Calyx, 16, & Beau Schenecker, 13, shot to death, Tampa, 27 Jan 2011 #1

[not_my_kids]

http://www.examiner.com/religious-s...-plans-protest-at-memorial-for-murdered-teens

OH FFS! When are these people going to just go away?

Westboro baptist will be protesting at their funerals.

 

[SarahW]

I'm puzzled why anyone would assume that premeditation precludes insanity. Even "legally insane" persons can plan ahead - and "legally insane" has little enough to do with the label "insane" as regards one's medical or disease impaired relationship with reality.

She knew what she was doing on a certain level to be sure. She was taking care of a problem that bothered and upset her, and her solution was carefully arranged to increase its chances of success. However, I think it will turn out her thinking is impaired; the reason it is making perfect sense to her that murder is the best way to resolve her unsatisfactory condition in life is that she is not operating on all cylinders.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

http://www.examiner.com/religious-s...-plans-protest-at-memorial-for-murdered-teens

OH FFS! When are these people going to just go away?

Westboro baptist will be protesting at their funerals.

The continued news from this tragically dysfunctional/delusional group that make you want to throw up. Obviously, true compassion is not written in any so called book they have decided to believe in.

Beyond comprehension.....

 

[pghbrandi]

http://www.examiner.com/religious-s...-plans-protest-at-memorial-for-murdered-teens

OH FFS! When are these people going to just go away?

Westboro baptist will be protesting at their funerals.

Those people disgust me to no end!

 

[Searchfortruth]

Body language expert says video suggests a neurological condition

TAMPA - Anyone would guess there may be something wrong with Julie Schenecker when homicide detectives escorted her out of the Tampa Police Department headquarters.

We wanted to know what a retired FBI profiler saw when he looked at the same video, and asked Joe Navarro to give us his thoughts.

"As you notice there, her head is leaning way back. This is very unsual. Usually when you see suspects coming out, their chin is low," said Joe Navarro.

"Usually, our bodies reflect what's going on in the mind. And clearly from what we're seeing there, where you see the orbits of the eyes fixed and rigid, you see the ticks of the mouth, you see the bouncing of the head, you see the tension of the face, this goes beyond stress. There's some sort of neurological issue going on. Of course what we don't know is, is it biological or because of drugs or alcohol," said Navarro.

More at link

http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/ne...-says-video-suggests-a-neurological-condition

 

[nyc]

Aside from the fact that what she did was reprehensible and unforgivable, maybe some of us are so thrown by this one because of the way it happened.

For me, I think that most of my problem with just pronouncing her evil or crazy comes from the level of organization. She did very organized things to pull this off. She bought the gun, she bought the ammo, she kept her children feeling safe enough that they didn't call for help ahead of time, she separated them in order to attack them, the list goes on.

On the other hand, she did very disorganized things, at the same time. She did not leave the scene, she did not clean herself up, she let a message out to someone close to her that did alert them to trouble, she made no effort to hide the bodies or her actions.

She moved at least her daughter to a comfortable place and covered her. That's a sign of caring, and so damn out of place among everything else here.

That's what's screwing me up. If the entire thing were highly organized, I'd call her evil. If it were completely disorganized, I'd call her crazy, maybe still evil. But this is all over the map, and that's why I can't wrap my head around it.

This is a very good explanation for why I am still trying to figure this one out. I would add to it that seeming contradictions of her previous work with the NSA, along with her husband not having any idea this was a possibility (even with the strange warning signs).

 

[Vresia]

I believe JPS was really, really mad.

I think that around the time of the slap & the accident, Calyx had recognized that something was very wrong with JPS. This was successfully conveyed to her father and, by ~New Years, it was 3 against 1 in that family. JPS was put on notice that the others knew she had a serious problem. Her life (especially status in her family), as she had known it, had "ended" with her being exposed.

The family dynamics were radically changed & JPS attributed this to her "mouthy kids". I think "mouthy kids" was a shorthand for what "ended" her life. I think she blamed her intelligent, articulate teens for verbalizing forbidden perceptions (like her substance abuse and it's consequences).

I think that by the time JPS got the gun and began writing her twisted thoughts, she saw her life as essentially over. She was the walking dead, beyond hopelessness but still smouldering with rage & blame at those she held responsible. She believed & accepted that there was no way out for her. It was just a matter of officially ending it & taking with her the ones she blamed.

Right now, I am convinced JPS intended to commit suicide. I don't know why she didn't.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Earlier articles said Beau was killed on the way home from soccer practice. The coach says he missed his first practice ever on Thursday, so he never made it there. He must have been shot after he got in the car. I wonder if the "warning shot" was simply that she missed her "target." Grrr

http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=172118&catid=8

Thanks very much for the newspaper link...

I am really surprised that DCF allowed it's report to be made public! I am a Guardian Ad Litem....so I am wondering if the Dad will be able to hold them accountable for not keeping the case open. I seems to me that they thought that he was in permanant residence at the home.

Things must have really gotten much worse when he left to go back out of the country.

Dear me this is such a sad case. Those poor children had so much to live for.

DEAR GOD...PLEASE BLESS THE FAMILY OF CALYX & BEAU!!!

 

[SarahW]

Just watched a news video with footage of Schenecker in court as she is denied bail.

Most written account describe her as softly weeping...but I saw something else.

While more subdued than in the perp walk, the mouth motions so suggestive of motor control damage (related to medication or disease) are STILL present.
There is chewing, tongue thrusting etc, affecting her lip posture. These aren't "crying" movements, she is not pouting or sobbing.

Here's the link

[video=youtube;YWXagVHZkP8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWXagVHZkP8[/video]

 

[Filly]

http://www.examiner.com/religious-s...-plans-protest-at-memorial-for-murdered-teens

OH FFS! When are these people going to just go away?

Westboro baptist will be protesting at their funerals.

They may not show. They run their mouths and get people in an uproar and often don't show up.

However when they do the only thing to do is ignore them. Easier said than done I know, but if people ignore them it p*s*es them off. Not in the case of a funeral, but their other hate mongering c*ap*ola standing next to them with huge corporate sings always works. Their face under a McD's sign or a Wal-Mart sign. DD went to counter rally and all the kids stood along with them with signs saying "God hates bags" "God hates tags" "God hates rags". They made sure to get the corporate signs smack right next to them. Hate mongers left.

They'll go away when we ignore them.

 

[Vresia]

...the mouth motions so suggestive of motor control damage (related to medication or disease) are STILL present.
There is chewing, tongue thrusting etc, affecting her lip posture. These aren't "crying" movements, she is not pouting or sobbing.

Sarah !!! Thank you so much for catching that. I totally missed the involutary mouth movements when I watched it. You are right- there they are ! Thanks too for including that link to the video of her at the bail hearing.

I wonder if we will ever learn what her neurologic problem is ? I found this link to a layperson description of dystonia symptoms
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-the-different-dystonia-symptoms.htm

 

[oceanblueeyes]

oceanblueeyes, sorry about your pain. It appears to me that someone has truly hurt you, so sorry for that.

I know my passion is evident and anyone that has posted with me here and elsewhere for many years knows how important this issue is to me.

Yes, I was once one of those scared children crying out in the night with no help ever coming. I survived though and the saying is true......'what doesn't kill you will make you stronger' and it has, and I will continue to the day I die.... to stand up for ALL children who have endured suffering at the hands of their parents.. or anyone else for that matter. but especially parents who were put on this earth to love and nurture the child they bring into this world.

My pet peeve is how it is so dismissed when a mother does something so unimaginably horrible to her children. Mothers are not without guilt anymore than the fathers are. 61% of murdered children are murdered by one of their parents. 31% are biological fathers. 30% are biological mothers. 59% of the time when a child has been neglected/tortured and abused it is done by their biological mother.

It makes me physically ill to see all the excuses that tend to rush forward when a mother coldly murders her own. It is a myth perpetuated by so many years of brainwashing that mothers are good and fathers are the bad ones.

To deal with the issues many innocent defenseless children face everyday in this country we cannot turn a blind eye to the brutal truth that faces them.

So yes, I was deeply hurt at one time for a very long time, but I have a very blessed life now and have for many many years.

So I feel it is my responsibility to speak the truth for those who often times are voiceless.

IMO

 

[Filly]

Last night JVM was harping on the substance abuse bandwagon. I thought, oh here we go again with her addict nation. But I'm thinking that's what is going on. With the supposed Al-Anon meeting the kids and hubby went to, and her daughter's anger at her mother it seems like a very real possibility. Imagine this 16 year old well-to-do-good-student-athlete...what does she have to be angry about? How about a mother that has gone from an involved parent to one who is an addict. I think her shaking was a detox. I think her pre-existing "medical condition" was alcoholism. IMO. I have a fourteen year old daughter. Her father came back from being away in the army for 2 years, and to his new wife and stepchildren. Over the last year my daughter has been very angry and has taken it out on me. She is in therapy but as someone upthread said, although she is the client, it is really her emotionally abusive father who is the cause and needs the help. My dd was taking her anger at her father's neglect and abandonment out on me who is safe to her. Needless to say this case hits close to home. My daughter had a drastic personality change and called me things I never would have dreamed of her saying...and I admit I did slap her after one of those things flew out of her mouth. But never never never never would I have thought to do something like this... I wanted her back, not gone. PS she is doing much better now with therapy and support.

"I wanted her back, not gone". That speaks volumes, strawberry. You're a good mom. I am very happy your DD is doing well with therapy.

I'm going on this as well. In the time line posted a ways back or a semi time line it was included that in August and again this is August JS wrote on her FB that quote about being kind to others as everyone is going through a battle. However that saying goes.

My bet is her substance abuse was going on for quite some time. Way prior to that car crash. Now, was she self medicating and already had a mental problem? We have no idea.

JMO but for a family especially like this to show up at an Al-Anon meeting is a huge deal. Weather we believe it or not there's still people that see this as a weakness. Asking for help is weak. It confirms what we already know. People fear that.

Don't air your dirty laundry.

JS IMO is out of her mind. As strawberry mentioned even kids who have these golden lives. They're golden children, but we don't know what goes on behind closed doors. Poor kid no doubt probably loved her mom dearly.

The whole think is immensely sad. I think alot of us can say we feel strawberry. I know I have been there with DD. Also tough is prior generations being involved. Older generations. JS's mom may have thought "Well you never answered me back". I'll tell ya what. I know I did maybe a few times. That was it because you got your mouth smacked. Or worse.

So sad, and ironic. The kids probably talked back because mom was lit. You know how it is having someone stone cold drunk telling you what to do?

 

[burbqueen]

I will never ever understand how some people may feel baffled by a woman killing her kids. I'm not. Women rape, abuse, kill and have a tendency to be cruel even more than some men. Some people have a bad temper that gets our of control. Some people are cold and unfeeling or are so into themselves that others just get in the way. Why is it more excepted for women to have mental issues then men? I'm totally baffled by that one.

Just cause you have a child doesn't mean you give two cents about them. I feel there is no maternal instinct. It's just something society tells women to make us all feel good about our children. Some people hate their children. I've seen it with my own sister.

I'm all for the victims. No sympathy for her. She planned the murder of two human beings. Crazy? I doubt it. You don't have to have a mental issue to kill. You don't have to be a drunk or a drug addict to kill. If this was a man I firmly believe that many would think the perp walk was an act.

IMO mommy was abusive for a while. The dad was niave and probably thought it was typical mother daughter issues. The mom should have left if she couldn't handle it. But when people kill family and it's not a conflict or family feud issue then it's about control IMO. They don't want to divorce or leave. People would talk and they would have to explain things to family and friends. So they take the cowards way out.

 

[Vresia]

I am really surprised that DCF allowed it's report to be made public! I am a Guardian Ad Litem....so I am wondering if the Dad will be able to hold them accountable for not keeping the case open. I seems to me that they thought that he was in permanant residence at the home.

I was also surprised that the report was released. I am impressed with Florida's Sunshine Law. I live in MA where it is increasingly difficult to get public records.

I don't think that father could say anything about the case having been closed when it was. I am not faulting him but, he denied any problems in the home including substance abuse problems. So did JPS.

I think the father was interviewed around 12/23, just before the case was closed. By then, JPS had had the accident and I believe he knew drugs were involved in that. The car pool neighbor said that the father was driving in place of JPS because of her accident injuries. No one has said what, if any, her injuries were. JPS was released from the hospital pretty quickly, it doesn't sound as thought she was too injured. I wondered if he took her keys away (at least for driving the kids) because he believed she was impaired when she hit the truck.

In the report, there are references made to the father often being oot. I remember that Beau & JPS said something about it.

The other reason that I don't think anyone can say the case was closed earlier is that they consulted at least one of the therapists. I think the therapist said she had no concerns for the kids safety.

 

[Litig8r]

I was also surprised that the report was released. I am impressed with Florida's Sunshine Law. I live in MA where it is increasingly difficult to get public records.

I don't think that father could say anything about the case having been closed when it was. I am not faulting him but, he denied any problems in the home including substance abuse problems. So did JPS.

I think the father was interviewed around 12/23, just before the case was closed. By then, JPS had had the accident and I believe he knew drugs were involved in that. The car pool neighbor said that the father was driving in place of JPS because of her accident injuries. No one has said what, if any, her injuries were. JPS was released from the hospital pretty quickly, it doesn't sound as thought she was too injured. I wondered if he took her keys away (at least for driving the kids) because he believed she was impaired when she hit the truck.

In the report, there are references made to the father often being oot. I remember that Beau & JPS said something about it.

The other reason that I don't think anyone can say the case was closed earlier is that they consulted at least one of the therapists. I think the therapist said she had no concerns for the kids safety.

Astute observation regarding the father driving the carpool. IMO, I suspect he didn't want her behind the wheel while under the influence. That poses the question I raised earlier: Did he not have this same concern before he left the country?

I read somewhere earlier today that it was determined JPS initially planned the "massacre" (her words!) for January 22, but had to postpone when she found out there would be a three day waiting period for the gun. I'd post a link, but I can't remember now where I read it. Where was the father on the 22nd? I wonder if she had intended to kill him, too? I'm guessing not, or she would have waited until he got home. Was that her plan? To postpone until he got home and then kill him, too? Then maybe she just lost her patience with the kids and went ahead? I'm guessing all of this information is in her detailed letters she left but clearly that information hasn't been made public, and no one has said anything either way.

Here's a link to the new information regarding the January 22 date, and some other new information. I have no idea if this is a reliable source or not. Just passing on what I read: http://www.examiner.com/media-cultu...schencker-plan-to-kill-suicide-foiled-by-cops

 

[GetSmart]

What I have been thinking about is did she have something in the back of her mind to just do herself in ..but it all changed some how .. or was she going to kill them ALL hubby included either when he got back home after the murders or all at same time and she jumped the gun .. ..

I would like to get others thoughts about the above...

This is something that I really wonder about..


Litig8r You posted before I finished with my post ...that explains some of it

 

[strawberry]

http://www.examiner.com/religious-s...-plans-protest-at-memorial-for-murdered-teens

OH FFS! When are these people going to just go away?

Westboro baptist will be protesting at their funerals.

Oh gooood grieeef. People need to start protesting at their "church" services. What a bunch of hateful evil people.

 

[Vresia]

Thank you for that link Litig8r. I feel a whole new level of sick after learning some of those details. Like using the word massacre and planning it for so long.

I don't think that she ever intended to kill the father. I think that she had even more rage at him than she did at her kids.

The media has reported that the father has not visited JPS yet and that nothing has been done about retaining a private attorney. That speaks volumes.

 

[strawberry]

http://www.examiner.com/religious-s...-plans-protest-at-memorial-for-murdered-teens

OH FFS! When are these people going to just go away?

Westboro baptist will be protesting at their funerals.

You know what though? They were supposed to go to Elizabeth Edward's and people made a human shield. I think I heard only one member went. They were supposed to go to Arizona and never did. I think they're losing. I hope.