GUILTY FL - Calyx, 16, & Beau Schenecker, 13, shot to death, Tampa, 27 Jan 2011 #1

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Does anyone know- if a person is insane, can they still plan things???

Just guessing, but probably. She still drove a car, which takes some rationale to know to stop at a red light, go at a green light, she knew where to go and how to get there, etc. From the crime scene photo's it appeared she cooked and cleaned. But that doesn't require an emotional response.

I'm wondering why she is sitting at the defense table. She appears to be able to assist her lawyers in her defense, which an 'insane' person wouldn't be able to do.
 
JM? Joni Mitchell?

Cuckoohead-

No- my boyfriend Juan Martinez :floorlaugh:

picture.php
 
Just guessing, but probably. She still drove a car, which takes some rationale to know to stop at a red light, go at a green light, she knew where to go and how to get there, etc. From the crime scene photo's it appeared she cooked and cleaned. But that doesn't require an emotional response.

I'm wondering why she is sitting at the defense table. She appears to be able to assist her lawyers in her defense, which an 'insane' person wouldn't be able to do.

Doesn't she have to be in court (nutty or not- as long as she behaves herself), by law, I mean?
 
Does anyone know- if a person is insane, can they still plan things???

If you are crazy you might 'plan' things but I think a sane person hearing the insane person's 'plan' would think it crazy. Does that make any sense?

I had a dear old crazy aunt. We were teenagers and once borrowed a blanket from my grandma (aunt lived with her) to sit across the street at the top of a hill with some boys we had met. My aunt came charging out of the house and ripped that blanket up off the ground yelling 'it takes two to make a pimple'. She also swore at you in different languages.
 
Omg!! What is this attorney trying to say??? He secured an unsecure firearm in a home where there was a concern for welfare based on suspicions of suicide!!! If this is all the defense had, JS should have pled out. Pitiful!!!!

Maybe defense felt it was better to ask a few questions than to say they had no questions. jmo
 
Doesn't she have to be in court (nutty or not- as long as she behaves herself), by law, I mean?

I think she is required to be there IF she is capable of understanding the process that is going on around her.
 
Does anyone know- if a person is insane, can they still plan things???

I know of a person who is Bi-Polar and she can drive and make decisions. She is also aware after a manic episode. She also uses her diagnosis as a crutch. jmo
 
I think the person committing the crime can be found insane during the act like a so called psychotic break. I don't know how an insane person comes back to sanity after something like that. Even with medicines to calm or neutralize the mood swings my aunt was still not all there.
 
Doesn't she have to be in court (nutty or not- as long as she behaves herself), by law, I mean?

The defendant must be able to help in his or her defense. I think society keeps the person in a hospital until he/she demonstrates being coherent enough to stand trial.
 
The defense has to prove that she was incapable of knowing right from wrong to get an insanity defense. Many mentally ill people such as she know the difference, they just act contrary to that knowledge.

She planned this crime. Knew to buy a gun to kill her mouthy kids. A very extreme punishment for them.
 
The defense has to prove that she was incapable of knowing right from wrong to get an insanity defense. Many mentally ill people such as she know the difference, they just act contrary to that knowledge.

She planned this crime. Knew to buy a gun to kill her mouthy kids. A very extreme punishment for them.

I found it extremely telling that the final shot was to the mouth---she also moved Caylx to her bed and covered Beau. She knew what she was doing--

Are the journals around? or just the e-mails?
 
The defense has to prove that she was incapable of knowing right from wrong to get an insanity defense. Many mentally ill people such as she know the difference, they just act contrary to that knowledge.

She planned this crime. Knew to buy a gun to kill her mouthy kids. A very extreme punishment for them.

I agree Carolina and for her to be sure and let the officer know right away that she was Bi-Polar. She was already creating her defense.

I can answer questions about depressions more than anything else, as I suffer from chronic depression.
 
I know the insanity defense is very difficult to prove. this whole trial's outcome will depend on the jurors understanding the definition of "insanity". Hope the experts educate them and us on the "correct" definition- if there is one.

I had to look up some definitions myself (as always, the nosy Queen :floorlaugh:)

Insanity: The Real Definition

The term insane is outdated parlance in the mental health community. No legitimate medical or clinical professional would be caught dead saying it in public. It's a legal term. A defendant may be found not guilty by reason of insanity if his or her lawyer can provide clear and convincing evidence that he/she was suffering from severe mental illness (i.e., psychotic disorders like schizophrenia, bipolar disorders, or organic brain illness) which prevented him/her from knowing that the crime committed was, in fact, an illegal act. Because it is a legal distinction, and not a medical one, although forensic psychologists may offer clinical opinions about the mental health of a defendant, only a judge or jury can make determinations about a defendant's insanity.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/20/insanity-definition_n_1159927.html
--

insanity

n. mental illness of such a severe nature that a person cannot distinguish fantasy from reality, cannot conduct her/his affairs due to psychosis, or is subject to uncontrollable impulsive behavior. Insanity is distinguished from low intelligence or mental deficiency due to age or injury. If a complaint is made to law enforcement, to the District Attorney or to medical personnel that a person is evidencing psychotic behavior, he/she may be confined to a medical facility long enough (typically 72 hours) to be examined by psychiatrists who submit written reports to the local superior/county/district court. A hearing is then held before a judge, with the person in question entitled to legal representation, to determine if she/he should be placed in an institution or special facility. The person ordered institutionalized at the hearing may request a trial to determine sanity. Particularly since the original hearings are often routine with the psychiatric findings accepted by the judge. In criminal cases, a plea of "not guilty by reason of insanity" will require a trial on the issue of the defendant's insanity (or sanity) at the time the crime was committed. In these cases the defendant usually claims "temporary insanity" (crazy then, but okay now). The traditional test of insanity in criminal cases is whether the accused knew "the difference between right and wrong," following the "M'Naughten rule" from 19th century England. Most states require more sophisticated tests based on psychiatric and/or psychological testimony evaluated by a jury of laypersons or a judge without psychiatric training. A claim by a criminal defendant of his/her insanity at the time of trial requires a separate hearing to determine if a defendant is sufficiently sane to understand the nature of a trial and participate in his/her own defense. If found to be insane, the defendant will be ordered to a mental facility, and the trial will be held only if sanity returns. Sex offenders may be found to be sane for all purposes except the compulsive dangerous and/or antisocial behavior. They are usually sentenced to special facilities for sex offenders, supposedly with counseling available. However, there are often maximum terms related to the type of crime, so that parole and release may occur with no proof of cure of the compulsive desire to commit sex crimes.
See also: insanity defense M'Naughten rule temporary insanity

(M'Naughten rule:
n. a traditional "right and wrong" test of legal insanity in criminal prosecutions. Under M'Naughten (its name comes from the trial of a notorious English assassin in the early 1800s), a defendant is legally insane if he/she cannot distinguish between right and wrong in regard to the crime with which he/she is charged. If the judge or the jury finds that the accused could not tell the difference, then there could not be criminal intent. Considering modern psychiatry and psychology, tests for lack of capacity to "think straight" (with lots of high-priced expert testi-mony) are used in most states either under the American Law Institute's Model Penal Code or the "Durham Rule.")

http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=979
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Did Julie know what she was doing when she shot her children. That's the important factor for me. What was she thinking she was doing by shooting them?
 
I found it extremely telling that the final shot was to the mouth---she also moved Caylx to her bed and covered Beau. She knew what she was doing--

Are the journals around? or just the e-mails?

Haven't found any journals, since this past weekend- maybe they will come out later?
 
I found it extremely telling that the final shot was to the mouth---she also moved Caylx to her bed and covered Beau. She knew what she was doing--

Are the journals around? or just the e-mails?

BBM She said the children were "mouthy". Guess she wanted to shut them up??? (such a sin, IMO)
 
I found it extremely telling that the final shot was to the mouth---she also moved Caylx to her bed and covered Beau. She knew what she was doing--

Are the journals around? or just the e-mails?

I agree zoey. The gunshot to the mouth sounds like JS was having the final word.

It sounds more like an enraged woman, after years of being the focal point and having people around her catering to her and her illnesses her family was deciding to continue with their lives even if that meant she stayed in bed all day. Her once young pliable youngsters were becoming their own people with their own needs.

Who wrote journals?
 
Hi everybody! :seeya: It's the beginning of finals week, and I'm grading while lurking...

I appreciate your comments!
 
This case is so terribly tragic! I'm looking forward to hearing more evidence but from first glance JS seems to have known exactly what she was doing. As someone else pointed out it's very telling that she mentioned to the first responder about being bipolar. Maybe throughout the night she was thinking about what she was going to do and say. I don't know all IMO

Thank you all for the updates and tweets! So great for those of us who can't watch live atm!
 
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