GUILTY FL - Carlie Brucia, 11, Sarasota, 1 February 2004

[Lilybug1]

I didn't mean for everyone to take my words and pick them apart. I was saying the way she was dressed, her development.....she looked a helluva lot older than an 11 year old.

How many times do you hear or kidnappings occuring with women who are "goth". Hardly ever! I guess it doesnt' matter to some people, but I always had my daughter wear very classic things, not trendy. A white shirt with navy sweater and khaki pants. Who knows what stimulated the guy to grab her. I can tell you though, it wasn't because she was ugly.

And yes, I've seen the video, I don't have to watch it again. She was DRESSED to look older than most 11 year olds I know. She had a very womanly body. I'm not on here to argue, just stating that perhaps what she was wearing provoked the guy. Sheesh!

Goth people are abducted and victimized as well. It just doesn't make the news bc they aren't as all-american and/or it's assumed they were troubled or ran away or dabbled in the occult. I really don't think that's true about ugly kids not being victimized either. And I'm not going to add insult to injury by pointing out victims who aren't textbook attractive.

Anyhow, all you parents with cute kids better watch out! If you don't get them braces, then maybe you stand a chance. And well the ones with the ugly kids and late-bloomers, you know who you are, you're alright for now. But make sure to dress them like dorks too. I don't mean to be mean here. I really don't think a child's looks/style or lack thereof is a good way to go about meaningful crime prevention.

 

[Nore]

Thanks newtv. I've been dealing with this tragedy all morning. So sad,so tragic....what a loss.
I'm glad the body was found and her abduction filmed.
The vision you created here is comforting. Thanks

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This is so sad.My heart goes out to her family.Carlie and family are in my prayers..

 

[SoloFlyer]

I wanted to add something here, a friend just called to say that the husband or boyfriend of the child carlie spent the night with was on TV last night (before she was found) and the man spoke of carlie in the past tense several times. he thought this was curious and wondered if this man had any connection to Joseph Smith. Now seeing that the friend's mother said Carlie's mom said it was OK for Carlie to walk home I have to wonder. I did not see the interview with the family Carlie had spent the night with but will try to see if it is available somewhere.

 

[indigomood]

You guys are still missing what I'm saying. I KNOW he was just a criminal, but I don't think he would have been provoked if she looked like a hag....she was a beautiful, well developed girl. And in some way her appearance did provoke him to grab her.

I respectfully disagree. Many rape/murder victims were not what mainstream might consider pretty or attractive. These are crimes of Opportunity. As one poster stated, many times the perp is unable to commit/fulfill the act necessary for rape due to impotence, anxiety etc. The motivation to batter, maim, mutilate etc may rise from the rage and the need for power. In my opinion what a victim wears or doesn't wear is moot. To go down that road is to displace blame where it rightfully belongs and infers that the victim is partially to blame. I don't think that is the inference we wish to make. Carlie was a beautiful, innocent 11 year old child.

(in my opinion)

 

[Sunnmoon]

Another literal person. ALL children are kidnapped, assaulted, whatever.

It makes this place no fun, when everyone picks apart everything you say for every literal word you enter. It's rather picky and puny IMO!

And threatening is not part of what this forum was about. Your just as guilty for threatening as any criminal.

So let me ask, how many of you have put braces on your children through a dentist recommendation. No one likes a person speaking from a high horse.

 

[Maxi]

I believe that, in the earlier case, Smith grabbed the young woman, displayed a knife, and threatened to cut her if she didn't go with him. It looks to me like he followed this same MO when he abducted Carlie. He appears to be holding something in his hand.

 

[indigomood]

Another literal person. ALL children are kidnapped, assaulted, whatever.

It makes this place no fun, when everyone picks apart everything you say for every literal word you enter. It's rather picky and puny IMO!

And threatening is not part of what this forum was about. Your just as guilty for threatening as any criminal.
So let me ask, how many of you have put braces on your children through a dentist recommendation. No one likes a person speaking from a high horse.

sorry, don't follow at all, please clarify re: threatening

 

[Bailey1]

How far was Carlie's house from the sleepover? It looked like she was walking through town..car wash, street, could see cars in back.

Was it a block, around the corner?

Also read it was the LIVE IN BOYFRIEND of the woman that lived in the house where she had the sleepover that gave her permission to walk home AND he knew Joe Smith????????

I agree with Carla, even if Carlie did say her Mom told her it was ok..I'D TAKE HER ANYWAY!!!

 

[Sunnmoon]

Doesn't involve you.

 

[Casshew]

And in some way her appearance did provoke him to grab her.

Sunnmoon ~ I hear what you are saying, but I have not heard all the details yet... maybe he has had contact with her before, maybe she knew him, maybe he has been watching her for some time....

I don't know if her physical appearance on that particular day provoked him to grab her. She could have been wearing a ugly bulky sweats and he would have still grabbed her.. who knows?

I agree she looked older than 11.

I swear I am going to flip if people start suggesting it was Carlie's fault because of how she looked... or it was the parents fault... it was THIS CREEPS FAULT! Full Stop.

 

[JDB]

Why is it so hard to understand. That a child molester does not care what the child look likes or what they wear.Examples Adam Walsh, Michela Gerhert*SP* which happened in my back ward years ago.Still missing to this day. Amber Schwartz. Polly Klass.
A child Molester has one thing in mind. And that is to harm a child.

 

[johnny]

As far as provocative so are some of the attachments to some of the replies to this site.

Come on she was walking home from a slumber party.

According to research by persons such as Anna Salter these men are looking for the young girl look not especially the provocative look. Someone they can feel power over, even sex doesn't appear to be the primary motivation in the cases. They want the innocent child. He most likely knew the parents were divorced etc. One thing these men fear and thats getting caught...well he got caught but look at the price that was paid....................

 

[LadyLuck]

You guys are still missing what I'm saying. I KNOW he was just a criminal, but I don't think he would have been provoked if she looked like a hag....she was a beautiful, well developed girl. And in some way her appearance did provoke him to grab her.

Sunnmoon- I think (and hope) you did not mean your comments the way most of us took them. Carlie could not help the fact that she was taller than most 11 year old girls. She could not help the fact that she was very pretty. She was dressed the way most young girls and boys dress -in jeans and t-shirt. The problem was NOT what Carlie looked like or even how she acted-- The only problem was the creep who thought he could do what ever he wanted to and he could get away with it as he had done in the past. If the video had not caught this he might have gotten away with taking the life of this beautiful young girl. Young 11 year old girls should be able to walk home in the daytime without having their life taken no matter what they look like or how they are dressed and to say she had any part in what happened makes me very sad.

 

[SoloFlyer]

The man at the sleepover house, Ronald Choquette was initially thought to be the culprit and was cleared by police. I suspect he was in on the kidnapping. He may have planted the seed that Carlie had permission to walk home and easily could have known Joe Smith sine Ronald was a tow truck driver and Joe was a mechanic. There was only a 11 minute time lapse between Carlie leaving that friend's house and her abduction. Either Joe was "lucky" or someone called and told him where to find this girl.

http://www.newscoast.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040204/NEWS/402040576

But even then, the Amber Alert wasn't immediately issued because detectives thought they had a suspect.

Deputies thought Ronald Choquette, who lived at the house where Carlie had a sleepover Saturday night, looked like the man in the video.

Choquette, a tow truck driver at Upman's, also spent Sunday morning with the girls, taking them for a ride in his car and then to McDonald's.



Choquette said sheriff's detectives visited Upman's at 3 p.m. Monday and brought him in for questioning. He was released more than an hour later. Gooding said the suspect was eventually "eliminated."

Let me add that Ronald is on probation also. http://www.dc.state.fl.us/ActiveOffenders/detail.asp?Bookmark=1&From=list&SessionID=470687587

 

[Lilybug1]

So let me ask, how many of you have put braces on your children through a dentist recommendation. No one likes a person speaking from a high horse.

I wasn't threatening you either so I hope your comparison to criminals wasn't direct at me. I was merely disagreeing with your post. If you find this place no fun bc people disagree with what you write, then I don't know what to tell you. You don't need to get so bent out of shape - some people just don't agree with the statement regarding the suspectibility of young pretty girls in trendy clothes to these type of predators. Just agree to disagree. I certainly wasn't threatening you or finding any morality in parent's orthondontal/dental choices for their children.

I had braces myself. I'm not speaking from a high horse. Parents are doing nothing wrong when they put braces on their kids (even though it's not due to an overbite). Sometimes people even put braces on their kids bc their teeth are crooked and to enhance their looks. There's nothing to be judged there. That's my whole point. They are also doing nothing wrong when they allow their children to dress according to the style respective of their chid's decade.

 

[Juliana]

Indigomood: Many rape/murder victims were not what mainstream might consider pretty or attractive. These are crimes of Opportunity.

I agree. Unless we hear that this creep was stalking Carlie or had some connection to her, I think that this guy would have grabbed ANY CHILD walking alone through that area that day. He was probably just out cruising around looking for a kid to snatch.

Even if he was stalking Carlie in particular, I don't think it had anything to do with the way she was dressed (at least in the video). She looked like she was dressed pretty modesly to me.

 

[SoloFlyer]

Please read my post on the other thread about the boyfriend of the child Carlie spent the night with's mother. I think he may have been involved in her disappearance.

 

[Imon128]

Seems I remember reading that one of the guys who lived at the house where Carlie spent the night, took a couple (?) of the girls on an errand/trip to the store, early?

 

[Casshew]

Sorry Solo? The boyfriend of the child??

 

[Love_Mama]

Tampa Tribune reporting that Smith occasionally frequented a bar near the car wash:

http://tampatrib.com/MGAWIGCTBQD.html

"A car mechanic with a history of drug problems, Smith was arrested in 1997 on charges that he attempted to kidnap a woman walking along U.S. 41 in southern Manatee County. A jury acquitted him of that charge.

Smith is an occasional patron at a bar about a block from the carwash where Carlie was abducted as she walked home from a friend's house after a sleepover.

``We've all been talking about it, about how that's a face we've seen,'' said Dave Monda, owner of Nick's Bar.

Carlie's mother visited the bar once or twice a week, Monda said. He said he doesn't know whether Smith and Schorpen are acquaintances.

Aperture.........I've been thinking that perhaps Carlie has seen this man.......
because after I've looked at the video 10 times there is no indication that she was screaming or yelling.......seems she was just try to tug away from him. Maybe he had seen Carlie's mom in the bar....got to know that she had a daughter........where she lived etc. Who knows!

Will some of you (who have better eye's then I) look at the video again.
Once I thought I saw her raise her left leg like she might be trying to kick him. Then the next time I looked the video they only showed part of it.

I've just talked to the V. Principal at our Middle School and we do not have any safety programs in place at this time. However...the V. Principal has asked me to talk to one of their counselors at the school and see if we can't put something together. I'm will be talking to her next week. I'm going to volunteer to help her and want to get hold of some videos.....and hopefully get an LE Officer to come to. I've become friend's with one particular Detective at our Police station here. A SHE, with a son nine! I'll keep posting on what we can do. I think the hardest thing will be deciding where and when to do these presentations. I want them done during school sessions........so am thinking possibly during lunch or their study break. I will prevail...............The good things is that I know a lot of the children...
and their parents. I'll get some of them to help too! I'll get my youngest son to pretend he's the abductor! I'm going to make a production out of this if it's the last thing I do!

If you guy's want to do this at your children's school........start by calling the Principal or V. Principal today or Monday. Get their permission to go ahead. I'll let you know my progress!

xxxxxxxxxoo
mama