FL - Chad Oulson, 43, killed in Wesley Chapel theater shooting, 13 Jan 2014 *Former LE arrest*

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Stand your ground denied...well crud I tried to link it but my phone linked something else. I'll be back LOL

Complete judges ruling at link

Link:
http://www.abcactionnews.com/news/l...e-theater-stand-your-ground-hearing-on-friday


Part of her ruling copied from link above (ruling in its entirety can be read at link):

This court does find issue with the Mr. Reeves’ testimony in support of the third factor, and denies this motion for the following reasons:
The physical evidence contradicts the defendant’s version of events. For instance, the defendant testified that he was hit in the outside corner of his left eye with a cell phone or a fist. The video evidence contradicts this assertion, clearly showing that there was no hit from a fist, and the item argued by the defense to be a cell phone was simply a reflection from the defendant’s shoes. Despite hours of testimony by the defense’s crime scene reconstruction expert in an effort to prove that the reflections seen in the video were those of a cell phone, other images of the defendant in the movie theater clearly show the same rectangle-shaped reflection on his shoes. In addition, common sense and the credible testimony of the medical examiner casts grave doubt on the likelihood of anything hitting the defendant in the eye beneath his glasses in the manner the defendant described. Which begs the question, why did the defendant say he was hit in the left eye, to the point of being dazed, when the video images and basic physics indicate that he did not get hit in the left eye with anything? The logical conclusion is that he was trying to justify his actions after the fact.

AND MUCH MUCH MORE AT LINK

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Remind me will she be the judge at the trial?


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Yes! Thank you for the update, yupikgirl. I don't have a clue how a jury will see this, so many Florida trials have gone opposite of what I expected. But I am glad there will be a trial to decide.

I don't know if this judge will preside over the trial....?
 
more from the judge's ruling: http://www.abcactionnews.com/news/l...e-theater-stand-your-ground-hearing-on-friday

The defendant testified that the alleged victim was virtually on top of him, and that he was grabbing the alleged victim’s chest or body with his left hand while he fired the fatal shot with his right hand, and even stated that he was surprised he did not shoot himself in the hand while doing so. The video evidence and other witness testimony contradicts this assertion also. In fact, the video clearly shows that the closest the alleged victim ever came to the defendant was when his hand reached for and grabbed the defendant’s popcorn and threw it on him. The video then shows the defendant lunge forward with his right arm extended, and fire at the alleged victim, who at that point was so far back from the defendant that he could not even be seen in the video anymore. He certainly was not on top of the defendant, and plainly the defendant’s left hand was nowhere near the alleged victim’s body.
 
one more from judge's ruling: http://www.abcactionnews.com/news/l...e-theater-stand-your-ground-hearing-on-friday

In addition to the video evidence and testimony that directly contradicted the defendant’s testimony, other facts tended to show that he was not in fear of great bodily harm or death. His conduct demonstrated that he was not afraid of the alleged victim: the defendant initiated contact with the alleged victim on at least three occasions and was not concerned about leaving his wife there alone when he went to talk to the manager. As he was trained extensively in handling firearms and dealing with conflict situations, he was far better prepared than the average person to deal with situations such as this one. Furthermore, the defendant did not appear to be frail by any means; on the contrary he is quite a large and robust man. He also appeared quite self-assured when he was testifying, and certainly did not appear to be a man who was afraid of anyone.
 
I wonder if he will want a plea after seeing that ruling?


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Remind me will she be the judge at the trial?


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I do believe she will be the judge for the trial:

[h=3]Criminal Justice Issues[/h][h=3]PASCO JUDGE RECUSES HIMSELF FROM THEATER SHOOTING CASE[/h]Tampa Bay Times | Article | July 8, 2015
Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Judge Pat Siracusa, the judge in the case of a retired Tampa police officer accused of killing a man in a movie theater, issued a notice removing himself from the proceedings. Siracusa did not make his reasoning public. Siracusa has overseen the case since the arrest of Curtis Reeves Jr. in January 2014 in the fatal shooting of Chad Oulson. Attorneys for both sides said they were struggling to finish depositions in a case with about 140 possible witnesses. At a June 30 hearing, Siracusa agreed -- with great reluctance -- to delay the trial until January. The case has been reassigned to Circuit Judge Susan Barthle.
http://www.floridabar.org/wps/porta...bwuZLXKvZ6t9dMvHq2IXGD30Pv607Z3ycZCTD2WcQWA!/
 
I'm happy with the Judge's decision.

While Mr. Reeve's may very well die of old age before he ever goes to actual trial, at least his last days will be filled with worry, stress, lawyers and courtrooms.
 
So I assume all his testimony for this will be allowed in the trial? Or is it kept separate- or yet another hearing to decide LOL

This is how Zimmerman handled it:

https://www.richardhornsby.com/blog/tag/stand-your-ground/

And another link on stand your ground in general may explain what I'm asking but I'm too dumb to figure it out LOL

https://www.google.com/amp/www.orla...nd-your-ground-ruling-20150710-story,amp.html

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I would think it would be totally separate from the trial, which starts with a jury who "knows none of this". All evidence will have to be presented at trial to be used. I would be surprised if testimony from this hearing was used, though we may hear a repeat when the same witnesses get called. Although I imagine if their testimony at trial does not match what they said at hearing it could come up.... lawyer?
 
from the article SeeSeas cited, as expected, defense will appeal the ruling.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts...-curtis-reeves-stand-your-ground-case/2316103

Barthle also didn't buy defense claims that Reeves was scared of Oulson, noting that he initiated contact with him three times and even left his wife alone when he went to complain to the manager. She also dismissed their depiction of Reeves as frail.

"On the contrary, he is quite a large and robust man," the judge wrote. "He also appeared to be quite self-assured when he was testifying and certainly did not appear to be a man who was afraid of anyone."


 
I would think it would be totally separate from the trial, which starts with a jury who "knows none of this". All evidence will have to be presented at trial to be used. I would be surprised if testimony from this hearing was used, though we may hear a repeat when the same witnesses get called. Although I imagine if their testimony at trial does not match what they said at hearing it could come up.... lawyer?

Yea I was thinking inconsistent statements would be brought up- I remember that from other trials when people change their statements from the preliminary hearing (for example). I just wasn't sure if his testimony could be brought up at all if he doesn't testify- which I imagine he wouldn't want to after reading what the judge had to say about his claims.

As another posted said- I suspect this will be held up for years before it ever goes to trial.


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As another posted said- I suspect this will be held up for years before it ever goes to trial.

I think that as well.

Reeves has already delayed a potential trial for three years via legal tactics. I hope the State asks for the bond to be revoked and the judge puts him in jail to await trial. One has the right to a "speedy trial" but not de facto "no trial".
 
You know to me,I don't care what age a person is, throwing popcorn in someone's face does not justify putting a bullet in him. Especially a highly trained retired law enforcement officer. It boggles my mind that this SYG BS is even a defense. If someone breaks into my house,than I can see a SYG case being sought. When I was in the Florida police academy years ago. if someone came into my house and I could run out the back door, that's what the law required. I remember asking in the academy "so if someone comes in my front door I have to run out the back door and let them rob my House? and they said you cannot shoot them if escape is possible. Around 2006 or 2007 they changed it to now you don't have to run out of the house, you CAN shoot them. Anyhow, this was in a movie theater and to me the only criminal action at all was the firing of a weapon. I have worked many years with scumbags and some very brave LE
members and to me this CR had absolutely no justification AT ALL. Yet I know I live in Florida, where a women who molests a high school boy is too pretty to do ANY jail time and of course no justice for Kaley, and Zimmerman just keeps going off every few months. Anyway just my thoughts while I wait for this verdict and I sure as heck hope CR goes to trial and is found guilty,but I have no faith in the justice system in this State.

Thank you, indianwin2001! Yes! Zimmerman's SYG pass was a horrific mistake, in my opinion. Zimmerman knew the law, at least on SYG defenses, even though I think he had repeatedly flunked admittance tests for LEO employment (if I am wrong -- I apologize -- but not to him!).

Zimmerman knew he had to get out of his vehicle to shoot Trayvon Martin, and be able to successfully claim SYG as his justification. Had he shot that young man from inside his vehicle, SYG would not have applied. He was the local village idiot -- another one just looking for an excuse to shoot someone. Since then, he has repeatedly demonstrated that he belongs behind bars, not out in the public -- running amok -- where he can kill again.

Someone will kill him one day, I'm sure. If so, I hope they can use SYG. That would be poetic justice!
 
While we wait. . . .
NICOLE OULSON INTERVIEW - http://curtisreevestrial.com/files/1991.mp3
VIVIAN REEVES INTERVIEW - http://curtisreevestrial.com/files/1992.mp3
CURTIS REEVES INTERVIEW - http://curtisreevestrial.com/files/1993.mp3

Thanks SeesSeas. I have listened to all three interviews. I even took notes, and then threw them out because I thought this day would never come! I can't wait until I retire (when I turn 90, probably). I will make a 2nd career out of Websleuths sleuthing -- even from the nursing home. (?!!)
 
more from the judge's ruling: http://www.abcactionnews.com/news/l...e-theater-stand-your-ground-hearing-on-friday

The defendant testified that the alleged victim was virtually on top of him, and that he was grabbing the alleged victim’s chest or body with his left hand while he fired the fatal shot with his right hand, and even stated that he was surprised he did not shoot himself in the hand while doing so. The video evidence and other witness testimony contradicts this assertion also. In fact, the video clearly shows that the closest the alleged victim ever came to the defendant was when his hand reached for and grabbed the defendant’s popcorn and threw it on him. The video then shows the defendant lunge forward with his right arm extended, and fire at the alleged victim, who at that point was so far back from the defendant that he could not even be seen in the video anymore. He certainly was not on top of the defendant, and plainly the defendant’s left hand was nowhere near the alleged victim’s body.

[BB&UBM]
Maybe it's my eyes, but I don't think the video clearly showed anything. It was all fuzzy and subject to interpretation [IMO]. But, thankfully, the Judge was able to observe enough to allow her to see right through CR's testimony and determine that he was full of it.

Now, to gripe about the court room coverage. The vantage point of the camera was very poor. Did the Judge allow only one camera in -- is that the reason? When Reeves testified as to what was on the video, we could not see WTH he was being asked to look at. We saw the back of the prosecutor's head during closing arguments. I didn't know who was doing the questioning of the witnesses because the camera was steadily on the stand. The microphones were useless, at times. When CR's son testified, he needed a megabooster on that mike. He even said (I DID hear this) himself that he spoke in a very soft voice. Who could hear what he said? They could've at least close-captioned it in real time. Why can't they just bring back Court TV? Oh, hell! I'm just getting old and don't want to admit it.

They have plenty of time to brush up on the latest technology before this goes to trial. So, hopefully, when we watch the trial, we'll be able to see and hear better. (God knows my eyesight and hearing aren't going to improve with age!)
 
[BB&UBM]
Maybe it's my eyes, but I don't think the video clearly showed anything. It was all fuzzy and subject to interpretation [IMO]. But, thankfully, the Judge was able to observe enough to allow her to see right through CR's testimony and determine that he was full of it.

Now, to gripe about the court room coverage. The vantage point of the camera was very poor. Did the Judge allow only one camera in -- is that the reason? When Reeves testified as to what was on the video, we could not see WTH he was being asked to look at. We saw the back of the prosecutor's head during closing arguments. I didn't know who was doing the questioning of the witnesses because the camera was steadily on the stand. The microphones were useless, at times. When CR's son testified, he needed a megabooster on that mike. He even said (I DID hear this) himself that he spoke in a very soft voice. Who could hear what he said? They could've at least close-captioned it in real time. Why can't they just bring back Court TV? Oh, hell! I'm just getting old and don't want to admit it.

They have plenty of time to brush up on the latest technology before this goes to trial. So, hopefully, when we watch the trial, we'll be able to see and hear better. (God knows my eyesight and hearing aren't going to improve with age!)

OT,,,but I just had to say that I love your sig, alexwood. I almost spit my wine out when I read it. :laughing:
 

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