FL - Chad Oulson, 43, killed in Wesley Chapel theater shooting, 13 Jan 2014 *Former LE arrest*

[turaj]

this is my first time listening to this interview right after the killing....Reeves is obsessed with his age...I mean obsessed...I wonder if getting old and not working really did a number on his psyche which is angry anyway. Interview all about him...I feel that the guy doing the interview is on to him all the way....and who in their right mind after killing someone makes jokes??

 

[Spellbound]

listening to Reeves in first interview...he is literally making this up as he goes....he says "I hope people around me saw it" already setting up his story....he does not even sound upset and keeps saying that he could not get out...why? Were people stopping him. Keeps saying Oulson jumped over the seat...the video shows that is a big far lie....this judge is so over this case...she is done!!

Pretty much had the same reaction to Reeves' testimony. I was surprised he seemed so calm. I am tired, but I do not recall anyone else saying they saw Oulson climb over the seat. Reeves also said a lot that he would tell his trainees to avoid this type of situation, so I keep going back to why did he not just move to another seat. And of all the people who testified and said they noticed the cell ohone light, no one said it was an annoyance.

You can see and hear the judge getting frustrated quite often. She even rolls her eyes and sighs big-time. I don't think she will be the same in a trial, though. I expect this to go to trial, but I sure hope it is not another two years! egads


I have a busy day tomorrow and probably won't be following much of the closing statements. If no one else does, I will see what I can find to catch us up later in the day.

Good night, all

 

[Spellbound]

videos: Today's hearing part 2 from Court Chatter, the audio taped statements made by Mr Reeves begin @ 19.43
https://youtu.be/hL2TOn72B3Y

[video=youtu;hL2TOn72B3Y]http://youtu.be/hL2TOn72B3Y[/video]

 

[Spellbound]

If you are interested in seeing Mr. Reeves' testimony from 2/28, it can be found at:
Part 1: https://youtu.be/ztln4O6YP_E
Part 2: https://youtu.be/5fvu6kZ4Mrw
Part 3: https://youtu.be/O0ImAQSSSsM

 

[SeesSeas]

I won’t be available to view closing arguments today, so will catch up over the weekend. I’m looking forward to the judge’s decision next week. I hope the decision is not favorable to Reeves, but I tend to think it will be favorable to him.

My favorite local columnist wrote this:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts...der-it-justice-if-curtis-reeves-walks/2315021
Romano: Will we consider it justice if Curtis Reeves walks?
John Romano, Times Columnist
Thursday, March 2, 2017
Most people seem to think "stand your ground'' is a pretty good law. […]
We like it right up until the moment we see someone else using it. […]
So is it reasonable to think Reeves feared for his safety? […]
When you consider Oulson was younger and bigger, and was the one who turned around to face Reeves, and was the one who reached across the seats to initiate contact, Reeves has an interesting argument.

 

[turaj]

I won’t be available to view closing arguments today, so will catch up over the weekend. I’m looking forward to the judge’s decision next week. I hope the decision is not favorable to Reeves, but I tend to think it will be favorable to him.

My favorite local columnist wrote this:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts...der-it-justice-if-curtis-reeves-walks/2315021
Romano: Will we consider it justice if Curtis Reeves walks?
John Romano, Times Columnist
Thursday, March 2, 2017
Most people seem to think "stand your ground'' is a pretty good law. […]
We like it right up until the moment we see someone else using it. […]
So is it reasonable to think Reeves feared for his safety? […]
When you consider Oulson was younger and bigger, and was the one who turned around to face Reeves, and was the one who reached across the seats to initiate contact, Reeves has an interesting argument.

Could not disagree more and sure hope the Florida comments are not indicative of most. I personally see a judge who wants to rule this afternoon and is very sure of her ruling already and is just waiting because the obnoxious defense as usual needs more time for what I don't know. I feel strongly this will go to trial...but have been really wrong before.

 

[Spellbound]

tweets from Dan Sullivan available at:
http://live.tampabay.com/Event/Curtis_Reeve_Stand_Your_Ground_Case
https://mobile.twitter.com/

Judge reading stipulations. One says DNA found on Oulson's cell phone contained mixture of DNA from 3 people, none from Reeves.

Another stipulation says there were no communications (texts) made from Oulson's phone b/t 1 and 1:30 p.m. day of the shooting.

Stipulation says Oulson's phone downloaded items from Facebook at that time, had one missed call.

Defense begins their closing:
He suggests that cops rushed to judgement in arresting Reeves. Says Det. Proctor didnt even view scene, talk to more than 3 witnesses.

case is about perception.

suggests that cops rushed to judgement in arresting Reeves. Says Det. Proctor didnt even view scene, talk to more than 3 witnesses.

(goes over his career; has never shot his gun in 27 years as cop)

(goes over his deteriorating health)

"why was mr oulson saying i'm texting my daughter when that was not true? ... Facebook took precedence ... "

"is that really where we're at, that we can't lean forward and ask a fellow patron, a fellow movie goer, can you turn off your cell phone?"

Escobar notes testimony of woman who saw Reeves at manager's desk, said he was calm, not agitated.

Escobar arguing that cell phone was thrown at Reeves. Mentions video which captured rectangular item b/t Reeves and Oulson in one frame.

"a 6-foot-4 individual standing there, trying to come over, is terrifying."

"this behavior by mr oulson is unexpected. it's uncontrolled. it's outrageous."

Escobar says Det. Proctor didn't ask pertinent questions of Reeves, including about his background and training, physical ailments.

Escobar reiterates testimony from investigators who said they noticed witnesses weren't separated, were talking to each other.

Escobar goes over witnesses who spoke of hearing Oulson yelling, and ones who noticed other witnesses talking about what they'd seen.

Escobar alleges that cops mishandled video evidence.

Escobar reiterates that Proctor "rushed to judgement" when he decided to arrest Reeves,

Escobar notes that Hamilton, the Sumter deputy who took Reeves' gun, got a plaque from the Pasco sheriff, says it was inappropriate.

Escobar denies that Reeves ever told his wife to "shut your f---ing mouth" after shooting. Says testimony shows that.

Escobar going through theater patrons who testified yesterday, saying they were contaminated by other witnesses.

Escobar references expert testimony on "perception distortion," which happens when people are caught in dangerous situations.

I ask the court today to review all the evidence and to find Curtis Reeves was more than reasonable in his perceptions on Jan 13, 2014 ..."

finished

 

[Spellbound]

Prsecutor Glenn Martin begins:

Sullivan‏ @TimesDan
We're back. Prosecutor Glenn Martin begins his closings.


Martin says the case can be summed up with one word: "retaliation."

Martin: "THROW POPCORN ON ME WILL YOU? BANG!"

Among disputed facts: was a cell phone thrown, and what as Reeves' state of mind?

Martin says Oulson made it clear he wanted to be left alone. Says Reeves should have known Oulson did not want his contact.

Martin suggests Reeves twice touched back of Oulson's seat, pushed off it.

Martin: "But what does he do? He rekindles the hostility flames b/t himself and Mr. Oulson."

Martin arguing that white pixels in surveillance video are reflective material on Reeves' shoes.

Martin notes Reeves said he was hit in left temple. Yet, he was turned to the right to face Oulson. Left temple was toward the screen.

Martin, playing video frame by frame, argues that Oulson was pulling back, retreating, as Reeves drew the gun.

Martin suggests Reeves embellished his account of the confrontation to avoid saying it was because he had popcorn thrown at him.

Martin: "He knew that just being hit by popcorn - can't believe I'm gonna say this - just wouldn't fly."

Martin addresses witness contamination. Says it "adds, it doesn't subtract."

Martin notes three witnesses who said they heard Reeves say "throw popcorn in my face" before the shot.


Martin reiterating that the case is about retaliation.

Martin is done.


[This was not all of the tweets, but a good deal of them, See here for the entire twitter feed: https://mobile.twitter.com/TimesDan (remvoe the word mobile if you are using a computer)]

[Judge will have the written order no later than 3 pm next Friday. Will email it to counsel and to the court media rep. Everyone sounds very tired. Judge appreciates the professional bunch and knows it was sometimes an adversarial situation, but it was a pleasure.]

[after a short bench conference, Judge adds she sees no point in setting a pretrial; Martin made a comment I could not hear; sets March 30 at 9 am for a status check; no one needs to be present and she can set something at that time if it is needed. Dismissed court]

 

[DisneyFan]

Just went to post this elsewhere and imagine "instigator, aggravator, and over the top" now deleted from the obituary.
Someone watching social media and trying to look better.

I still feel sorry for both wives, however the truth is the truth. Social media wants to imply Reeves is a grumpy old man. Perhaps Ouleson was a hot head. Someone must be concerned to change the obituary (which I copy and pasted) jPretty strange to me.

 

[SeesSeas]

Just went to post this elsewhere and imagine "instigator, aggravator, and over the top" now deleted from the obituary.
Someone watching social media and trying to look better.

I still feel sorry for both wives, however the truth is the truth. Social media wants to imply Reeves is a grumpy old man. Perhaps Ouleson was a hot head. Someone must be concerned to change the obituary (which I copy and pasted) jPretty strange to me.

It's still listed:
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/thetelegraph/obituary.aspx?page=lifestory&pid=169359784
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/whig/obituary.aspx?page=lifestory&pid=169260742
Chad Wayne Oulson, 43, of Land O' Lakes, Fla., died Monday (Jan. 13, 2014) of a gunshot wound in a movie theater in Wesley Chapel, Fla. […]
He had the love and respect of his friends, co-workers, neighbors, acquaintances and was referred to as a leader, mentor, organizer, funny guy, genuine, entertainer, aggravator, instigator, go-getter, over the top and full-throttle guy.

 

[Spellbound]

Descriptive quote from Chad Ouleson Obituary:

"he was referred as leader, mentor, organizer, funny guy, genuine, entertainer, aggravator, instigator, go-getter, over the top and full-throttle guy."

I was most interested in the description of "aggravator, instigator, over the top, and full throttle guy. " Those fit the actions of the victim that day. I do believe he was an aggressor. I don't believe, in my opinion Mr. Reeves was on his best behavior either. They were both acting as a@@holes in my opinions. Unfortunately this type of childish behavior has life long consequences.

So sorry for both wives in this situation.

That is quite interesting. Someone must be following here with us.

The revised version: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/thetelegraph/obituary.aspx?page=lifestory&pid=169359784
....and was referred to as a leader, mentor, organizer, funny guy, genuine, entertainer, go-getter and full throttle guy.

Considering the circumstances and a trial, this is a more acceptable version for public eyes. The original definitely gave weight to the defendant's perception. in my opinion. Unfortuntely, we do have to be so careful with words.

Your last two sentences say everything, DisneyFan. That is how I see the entire mess.

I was thinking earlier that if Mr. Reeve's glasses were knocked askew and then he fired a shot, I am surprised it was not argued he fired haphazardly without knowing (seeing) who he was shooting at. I also wonder if Mrs. Oulson has any legal right to sue for her injury, being shot as a bystander who was trying to keep things from getting out of hand. Lawyer?

 

[Spellbound]

It's still listed:
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/thetelegraph/obituary.aspx?page=lifestory&pid=169359784
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/whig/obituary.aspx?page=lifestory&pid=169260742
Chad Wayne Oulson, 43, of Land O' Lakes, Fla., died Monday (Jan. 13, 2014) of a gunshot wound in a movie theater in Wesley Chapel, Fla. […]
He had the love and respect of his friends, co-workers, neighbors, acquaintances and was referred to as a leader, mentor, organizer, funny guy, genuine, entertainer, aggravator, instigator, go-getter, over the top and full-throttle guy.

The first link is the original version, the second link you posted has the revised now.

 

[turaj]

The first link is the original version, the second link you posted has the revised now.

is the second obit.above someone's idea of a joke...clearly the first one is the real one...nothing has been changed...even the photo...I can't believe this is even posted anywhere...simply no one ever wrote that obituary and it is someone's idea of revenge?

 

[SeesSeas]

While we’re waiting for the ruling, I found some interesting “Stand Your Ground” news articles.
Some graph and chart statistics are included in this article:
http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/
Florida’s STAND YOUR GROUND LAW
Investigation: June 3, 2012
Page last updated: Aug. 13, 2013
Uneven application, shocking outcomes
A Tampa Bay Times investigation has found that Florida's "stand your ground" law is being used in ways never imagined — to free gang members involved in shootouts, drug dealers beefing with clients and people who shot their victims in the back.
Who goes free sometimes depend more on where a case is heard than its merits.
Florida's "stand your ground" law has been extremely successful for people who kill and claim self-defense. Nearly 70 percent of those accused went free.

 

[SeesSeas]

http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/fatal-cases
STAND YOUR GROUND LAW
Page last updated: Oct. 1, 2014
About the cases
The Tampa Bay Times used media reports, court records and interviews with prosecutors and attorneys to identify more than 200 “stand your ground” cases across Florida. The list, though incomplete, is the most comprehensive in the state and likely includes most fatal cases.

 

[SeesSeas]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/public...s-some-shocking-outcomes-depending-on/1233133
Florida 'stand your ground' law yields some shocking outcomes depending on how law is applied
Friday, June 1, 2012
Florida's "stand your ground'' law has allowed drug dealers to avoid murder charges and gang members to walk free. It has stymied prosecutors and confused judges. It has also served its intended purpose, exonerating dozens of people who were deemed to be legitimately acting in self-defense. […]
• People often go free under "stand your ground" in cases that seem to make a mockery of what lawmakers intended. One man killed two unarmed people and walked out of jail. Another shot a man as he lay on the ground. Others went free after shooting their victims in the back. In nearly a third of the cases the Times analyzed, defendants initiated the fight, shot an unarmed person or pursued their victim — and still went free. […]
The new law only requires law enforcement and the justice system to ask three questions in self-defense cases: Did the defendant have the right to be there? Was he engaged in a lawful activity? Could he reasonably have been in fear of death or great bodily harm?
Without convincing evidence to the contrary, "stand your ground'' protection prevails.
If prosecutors press charges, any defendant claiming self-defense is now entitled to a hearing before a judge. At the immunity hearing, a judge must decide based on the "preponderance of the evidence" whether to grant immunity. That's a far lower burden than "beyond a reasonable doubt," the threshold prosecutors must meet at trial.
"It's a very low standard to prove preponderance," said Weaver, the West Palm Beach lawyer. "If 51 percent of the evidence supports your claim, you get off." […]

 

[Jax49]

is the second obit.above someone's idea of a joke...clearly the first one is the real one...nothing has been changed...even the photo...I can't believe this is even posted anywhere...simply no one ever wrote that obituary and it is someone's idea of revenge?

I thought it was a joke also but the original obit does seems to contain the words aggravator and instigator.

Published in Quincy Herald-Whig from Jan. 24 to Jan. 26, 2014 -

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/whig/obituary.aspx?n=chad-wayne-oulson&pid=169260742

a leader, mentor, organizer, funny guy, genuine, entertainer, aggravator, instigator, go-getter, over the top and full-throttle guy.

But one published a couple of days later does not contain those words.

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/thetelegraph/obituary.aspx?page=lifestory&pid=169359784

a leader, mentor, organizer, funny guy, genuine, entertainer, go-getter and full throttle guy.

Published in The Telegraph from Jan. 27 to Jan. 28, 2014

*******

I must be missing something...

 

[SeesSeas]

One of the cases at http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/fatal-cases

http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/cases/case_82
Judge denied ‘stand your ground’ immunity.
Horn acquitted at trial.
[…] Witnesses gave differing accounts of what happened next. Some say Martell punched Horn. Others didn't see a punch. Horn fired at Martell six times until the gun jammed.
The outcome: Horn was charged with second-degree murder. He claimed immunity under the stand your ground statute, but a judge denied that claim. He went to trial and was acquitted.

 

[turaj]

if for judge bizarre reason the judge grants the immunity I understand the state can appeal...correct? And do they need grounds other than just not agreeing and wanting another opinion? I mean the judge let virtually everything but the state of the plumbing in the theater into the hearing...so how does that work?

 

[SeesSeas]

Judge in Reeves case will rely on case law. And she will be creating case law.
Here is a peculiar case in that “A judge denied his immunity motion, but then halted his trial in midstream and acquitted him. “
http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/cases/case_136
Location details: Trotti's Lounge in Safety Harbor, Pinellas County, on June 02, 2007
What happened: James Elrod, 40, and Bob McCullen, 53, were arguing at a bar when McCullen approached Elrod, putting his hand on the man's shoulder or neck. Elrod reacted by extending his arm, striking the victim with an open palm. McMullen fell to the ground and died 10 days later in the hospital.
The outcome: Elrod was charged with manslaughter after McCullen died from a blood clot that cut off the supply to his brain. A judge denied his immunity motion, but then halted his trial in midstream and acquitted him.
Investigating agency: Pinellas County Sheriff
Case decision made by: Judge

More about this case here:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/safety-harbor-barroom-death-ends-with-acquittal/1083986
Elrod, who has been charged with numerous crimes in the past, including resisting arrest, aggravated assault and drug charges, testified in his own defense.
The jury of six, plus an alternate, however, did not get a chance to judge him.
The judge had heard enough.
He was acquitted by Circuit Judge Richard A. Luce after a psychologist testified that Elrod could have simply been reacting in self-defense . . . […]
"In this case, there are two reasonable hypotheses of innocence," Luce said. "Under the immunity theory, the court is required to issue a judgment of acquittal."