FL - Chad Oulson, 43, killed in Wesley Chapel theater shooting, 13 Jan 2014 *Former LE arrest*

[Spellbound]

Just getting in and can't stay long. Apparently there were signs somewhere in the theater that guns wee not permitted inside. This officer on stand (Hamilton) stated he took his in anyway and it was in his wife's purse.

Tweets seem sporadic and I have lost the feed several times today. Could be the very windy weather we are having.

 

[Spellbound]

on stand: last witness for today, Pinellas-Pasco Medical Examiner Dr. Jon Thogmartin. Discussing the wound and wound track.



Chad Oulson's autopsy: http://media.wix.com/ugd/943520_80ee4094b45c43ab9342215acb109bfe.pdf

Other reports can be found at the same site, in the right column: http://www.courtchatter.com/curtis-reeves-trial-archives

 

[SeesSeas]

Thanks Spellbound for your posts today. Good to have some of the highlights of the day. I was just now logging in as court was ending. I won’t have much time tomorrow or the next day either.

 

[SeesSeas]

Just getting in and can't stay long. Apparently there were signs somewhere in the theater that guns wee not permitted inside. This officer on stand (Hamilton) stated he took his in anyway and it was in his wife's purse.

Tweets seem sporadic and I have lost the feed several times today. Could be the very windy weather we are having.

Here is some reported information about the ‘no weapons’ sign posted at the theatre:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts...pect-confident-of-prevailing-in-trial/2174450

Photo evidence shows a sign at the Grove Cobb 16 theater in Wesley Chapel where Chad Oulson was shot and killed. Pinellas-Pasco State Attorney’s Office

http://www.tbo.com/pasco-county/wes...shooting-death-remains-closed-today-20140114/
Updated: January 14, 2014 at 05:28 PM
WESLEY CHAPEL — Curtis Reeves Jr., the retired Tampa police captain accused of killing a man at the Cobb Grove 16 Theatre, had a permit to carry a concealed weapon, according to the Pasco County Sheriff’s Office, but taking the gun into the movie violated a Cobb Theatres policy.
The theater chain, based in Birmingham, Ala., has a “zero tolerance” policy for weapons, and signs are placed in the theaters to tell patrons that guns and knives are not allowed, said Molly McFerran, a spokeswoman for Cobb.
“That is on every door as you walk into the building,” she said.

 

[DisneyFan]

Those signs are certainly prominately displayed at the theater, however to be perfectly honest I do not recall seeing them prior to this incident. Now having said that, who looks for those things? Certainly not me. I did after the shooting of course, because I couldn't recall ever seeing such sign. The signs were present, at least after the shooting.

Just a reminder how we go about our daily activities without taking in all that is around us. Just my opinion.

 

[SeesSeas]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts...-blood-on-face-investigator-testifies/2314945
Witness: Wife chided Reeves after theater shooting and he told her to shut her mouth
Wednesday, March 1, 2017
DADE CITY — Sumter County sheriff's Sgt. Alan Hamilton recalls the burst of popcorn and the muzzle blast that 2014 day at the Cobb Grove 16 theaters.
He was there when Curtis Reeves, then 71, shot a man to death after a dispute over a cellphone.
In court testimony Wednesday, Hamilton recalled the aftermath.
He had been sitting with his wife in the back row of the theater, the same row as Reeves. He walked over to collect Reeves' gun. When he got there, he said, Reeves was shaken.
"I can't believe what I've just f------ done," Hamilton recalled Reeves said.
Reeves, seated, had the .380 Kel Tec pistol resting on his left knee. The sergeant, who was a corporal at the time, placed his hand on Reeves' chest, picked up the gun and unloaded it, he said.
That's when he saw Chad Oulson, 43, who was on lying on his back in next row, bleeding.
Hamilton said he also overheard a conversation between Reeves and his wife, one the couple would say did not happen.
"That was no cause to shoot that man," Hamilton said he heard Vivian Reeves say.
"He pointed his finger at her and told her to shut her mouth and to not say another f------ word," Hamilton said of Curtis Reeves.
[…]

 

[SeesSeas]

http://www.baynews9.com/content/new...ticles/bn9/2017/3/1/defense_rests_in_cur.html
Prosecution in Curtis Reeves hearing calls forensics unit, Sumter deputy to testify
Last Updated: Wednesday, March 01, 2017, 6:25 PM EST
Sumter deputy testifies
Later Wednesday, the Sumter County deputy who was in the theater the day of the shooting delivered his testimony. Prosecutors had Sergeant Allen Hamilton re-tell what he saw from his seat in the same row Reeves was sitting in, and describe how the argument between Reeves and Oulson escalated.
[…]
“After you heard the bang and the flash, did Mr. Oulson say anything?”
“It was something to the affect of -- I’m not verbatim -- ‘I can’t believe he shot me.'”
Hamilton then testified that following the shooting, he presented Reeves with his badge, disarmed him, and watched him.
“Did Mr. Reeves make any statements to you?” asked Martin.
“He initially had said he had been hit with something and for me to inspect him and look at him.”
“Did you do that?”
“Yes sir, I did.”
“Did you observe any injuries?”
"No sir, I didn’t at the time.”
Hamilton also said he heard what Reeves and his wife were saying to each other after the incident, testifying he heard Reeves' wife say, "That was no cause to shoot that man."
"Did Mr. Reeves respond," asked Martin.
"Yes, sir, he responded -- he turned quickly to her, she was to his right, pointed his finger at her and told her to shut her mouth and not say another word."

 

[DisneyFan]

http://www.baynews9.com/content/new...ticles/bn9/2017/3/1/defense_rests_in_cur.html
Prosecution in Curtis Reeves hearing calls forensics unit, Sumter deputy to testify
Last Updated: Wednesday, March 01, 2017, 6:25 PM EST
Sumter deputy testifies
Later Wednesday, the Sumter County deputy who was in the theater the day of the shooting delivered his testimony. Prosecutors had Sergeant Allen Hamilton re-tell what he saw from his seat in the same row Reeves was sitting in, and describe how the argument between Reeves and Oulson escalated.
[…]
“After you heard the bang and the flash, did Mr. Oulson say anything?”
“It was something to the affect of -- I’m not verbatim -- ‘I can’t believe he shot me.'”
Hamilton then testified that following the shooting, he presented Reeves with his badge, disarmed him, and watched him.
“Did Mr. Reeves make any statements to you?” asked Martin.
“He initially had said he had been hit with something and for me to inspect him and look at him.”
“Did you do that?”
“Yes sir, I did.”
“Did you observe any injuries?”
"No sir, I didn’t at the time.”
Hamilton also said he heard what Reeves and his wife were saying to each other after the incident, testifying he heard Reeves' wife say, "That was no cause to shoot that man."
"Did Mr. Reeves respond," asked Martin.
"Yes, sir, he responded -- he turned quickly to her, she was to his right, pointed his finger at her and told her to shut her mouth and not say another word."

Just as I previously stated I believe both wives attempted to stop or shut their respective husbands down. This situation should never have escalated.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[yupikgirl]

Those signs are certainly prominately displayed at the theater, however to be perfectly honest I do not recall seeing them prior to this incident. Now having said that, who looks for those things? Certainly not me. I did after the shooting of course, because I couldn't recall ever seeing such sign. The signs were present, at least after the shooting.

Just a reminder how we go about our daily activities without taking in all that is around us. Just my opinion.

Agree. I never noticed them until after- and this is the main theater we go to as it's the closest about 3-4 miles from my house.

Having said that I would like to think that if I carried a gun I would be more aware...at least I hope I would.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DisneyFan]

Chad Wayne Oulson Obituary
Chad Wayne Oulson, 43, of Land O' Lakes, Fla., died Monday (Jan. 13, 2014) of a gunshot wound in a movie theater in Wesley Chapel, Fla.
He was born Sept. 28, 1970, in Alton, and moved to Clayton at the age of 9 months. He attended Brown County schools and was a graduate of Brown County High School.
He enlisted in the U.S. Navy in November 1990 serving eight years, with four years at Norfolk, Va., and four years at Jacksonville, Fla. He later moved to the Tampa area.
Mr. Oulson was a finance manager for Sun Motor Sports.
He was an avid dirt bike rider, loved boating and playing the guitar for his own entertainment, but most of all he loved the time spent with his family.
He had the love and respect of his friends, co-workers, neighbors, acquaintances and was referred to as a leader, mentor, organizer, funny guy, genuine, entertainer, aggravator, instigator, go-getter, over the top and full-throttle guy.[/B][/B]
Surviving are his wife, Nicole Oulson; a daughter, Alexis Oulson, 22 months old, who was the joy of his life; his mother, Barbara Schreacke (Jim) of Camp Point; brother, Jeff Harpole of Quincy; a sister, Kip Hoosier (J.D.) of Camp Point; a brother and sister, Clay and Renee, both of the Alton area; and numerous nieces and nephews, aunts, uncles and cousins.
He was preceded in death by his father, Jerry Oulson, and his maternal and paternal grandparents.
SERVICES: A memorial service will be held at 2 p.m. Saturday, Feb. 1, in the Glory Worship Center on U.S. 24 in Clayton by Pastor Terry Cain. A service was held Jan. 18 in Land O' Lakes, Fla. Cremation rites have been accorded.
MEMORIALS: Alexis Oulson Education Fund.
Published in Quincy Herald-Whig from Jan. 24 to Jan. 26, 2014
REMEMBER Share memories or express condolences below.
2 ENTRIES
THE GUEST BOOK IS EXPIREDPlease restore the Guest Book to share in the life story for CHAD WAYNE OULSON
"I did not know Mr.Oulson, but, I do Harpole Family research, and noticed the obituary. We will..."
-
RESTORE THE GUEST BOOK
- See more at: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/wh...=lifestory&pid=169260742#sthash.oQMGxioU.dpuf

 

[DisneyFan]

Descriptive quote from Chad Ouleson Obituary:

"he was referred as leader, mentor, organizer, funny guy, genuine, entertainer, aggravator, instigator, go-getter, over the top and full-throttle guy."

I was most interested in the description of "aggravator, instigator, over the top, and full throttle guy. " Those fit the actions of the victim that day. I do believe he was an aggressor. I don't believe, in my opinion Mr. Reeves was on his best behavior either. They were both acting as a@@holes in my opinions. Unfortunately this type of childish behavior has life long consequences.

So sorry for both wives in this situation.

 

[Spellbound]

Joining

:welcome1: Cricket! Feel free to jump in any time!


I agree both these men behaved badly. I just don't see it as a "stand your ground" case. I personally see Mr. Reeves as the one who continually hassled Mr. Oulson about the cell phone instead of removing himself from the situation.

This is the Florida law on use of force. He certainky did not "exhaust every reasonable means to escape danger". He knew his action was going to likeky cause great harm or death.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0776/0776.html

776.041 Use or threatened use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who
1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or

(2) Initially provokes the use or threatened use of force against himself or herself, unless

a) Such force or threat of force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use or threatened use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or

(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use or threatened use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use or threatened use of force.

History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1190, ch. 97-102; s. 7, ch. 2014-195.

 

[alexwood]

ITA Spellbound.

Curtis Reeves provoked Chad Oulson from the get-go. He then escalated the confrontation by continuing to needle and taunt the poor guy, who I think was suffering separation anxiety because (if I remember correctly) his little girl was sick and with a babysitter.

Reeves came into that movie theater looking for an opportunity to bully/intimidate/have a verbal altercation/fight with SOMEONE/ANYONE! My mother used to refer to it as: "Getting out of bed on the wrong side" [when someone is in a bad mood]. He wasn't afraid -- why would he be? He had a gun in his pocket.

Yeah. Maybe he was a wonderful, humorous, caring individual at one time -- like a couple of his friends/coworkers have testified -- when he was at the top of his "game" and had nothing to prove due to his rank/position.

Once he retired, he lost his identity. He wasn't aging "gracefully", was beset with aches and pains [IMO due in large part to less physical activity and packing on the lbs.], I think his whole demeanor began to change. (MOO)

 

[alexwood]

Good thoights, but I don't think I can agree. Mr. O is seen obviously coming toward Mr Reeves in the surveillance video from the theater. As to whether he is reaching that far from his own row/seat are, I cannot be sure. I don't know where he actually fell. Maybe I can find the video from a few days ago where they talked about the victim (not sure they actually showed it on the screen)

Sorry for the poor quality ... it was from the live-stream, but would not download. It said it was saved in wrong format) so I snapped a pic of it on ipad to put here. YELLOW circle is Mr Oulson; RED circle is the gun in Mr. Reeves' hand after shooting.


Any photos I saw right after, with a padded vest on, Mr Reeves was not wearing his glasses at all. I have never seen one when he wore a glasses strap with them. I will be looking, though.

Nice to have things to actually discuss!

I'm sure you are right, Spellbound. I should have gone back over the videos and re-listened to testimony before spouting off -- particularly about the head strap! He's not wearing it now, if he ever was. But you certainly are up on this case -- and I thank you very much for the work you are doing (and Sees Seas, too) to keep us updated so thoroughly.

I really do hope he doesn't get away with this.

 

[SeesSeas]

JMO
I’m leaning toward defending Reeves. Gaah! :gaah:
This is difficult for me because I particularly dislike bully cops and arrogant ex-cops.
I don’t think the 776.041 FL statute “exception” applies in this case. JMO. I could be wrong. And, my interpretation of the law doesn’t mean I agree with the law.
They were both A$$es, yes. But I don’t think Curtis Reeves “Initially provokes the use or threatened use of force against himself”. I think Reeves just wanted compliance with his verbal requests. Reeves wanted to be obeyed. They were both mouthy and neither wanted to back down from their verbal argument.
But I don’t see that CR’s behavior provoked a physical confrontation by CO. Reeves was provoking a verbal argument, yes. We see the physical confrontation on video, showing what appears to be Oulson threatening use of force, as well as using force toward Reeves.
It seems most agree this should not have escalated, but it did escalate. Two hotheads, and neither is going to back down. But it seems to me that Oulson was the initial physical aggressor. Reeves picked the fight, but Reeves was fighting verbally, not physically. Reeves didn’t de-escalate the situation. Reeves antagonized with his continual verbal comments. But, Reeves didn’t physically threaten Oulson. Oulson then came at Reeves physically.
Wow, if only Reeves didn’t have his gun in his pocket.

Yes, DisneyFan, if the husbands had simply listened to their wives! Males and females react differently. It’s the testosterone! An interesting medical article:
Testosterone and Aggressive Behavior in Man
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3693622/
Atavistic residues of aggressive behavior prevailing in animal life, determined by testosterone, remain attenuated in man and suppressed through familial and social inhibitions. However, it still manifests itself in various intensities and forms from; thoughts, anger, verbal aggressiveness, competition, dominance behavior, to physical violence. Testosterone plays a significant role in the arousal of these behavioral manifestations in the brain centers involved in aggression and on the development of the muscular system that enables their realization.

 

[alexwood]

Descriptive quote from Chad Ouleson Obituary:

"he was referred as leader, mentor, organizer, funny guy, genuine, entertainer, aggravator, instigator, go-getter, over the top and full-throttle guy."

I was most interested in the description of "aggravator, instigator, over the top, and full throttle guy. " Those fit the actions of the victim that day. I do believe he was an aggressor. I don't believe, in my opinion Mr. Reeves was on his best behavior either. They were both acting as a@@holes in my opinions. Unfortunately this type of childish behavior has life long consequences.

So sorry for both wives in this situation.

Thanks, Disney Fan, for your insight on Chad Oulson's personality traits. Very good point.

I'm just stating the obvious: It didn't have to be this way. Why did Curtis Reeves take that gun into the theater?!!!! Chad Oulson would still be alive if Reeves had not had that gun handy.

 

[Spellbound]

SeesSeas, you may very well be right with your thoughts of the statute's "exceptions." I know I would not want to be the judge having to decide. I think it could be perceived either way.

 

[alexwood]

There was no mention of grabbing popcorn and shoving it in his face....?

Showing enhanced surveillance video again. [I do think this video shows more clearly Mr R's whole body. From my view, it looks like there is an empty row bwtween the two men. Does a cell phone shine that brightly that two seats behind it would annoy another person in a darkened, but not completely dark, theater?]

Showing Mr R's dark colored shoe with laces now. Has some reflective areas. Trying to establish the bright white reflection 2x3 pixel in video might be. Mr R does not know, "it is possible" to be his shoe.

Felt threatened, tried to shoot the man before he was hit.
Has no recollection of what happened with the popcorn.
Felt he (Mr O) was a good sized, tall man.
Put the gun in his lap so no one else would feel he was a threat. Off-duty officer retrieved the weapon.


Reeves was shown his booking photo, he pointed out visibly swelling over left eye.

10 minute break, then prosecution will be up.

Thanks, Spellbound! My comments here are not very timely, but anyway
:
Did the popcorn being thrown allegedly by Chad Oulson ever come up in Reeves testimony?
I can't remember what, if anything, Reeves said from the audio with Det. Proctor in squad car. Oh, yes! I do remember now. It is almost inaudible, but I could SWEAR (IMO -- MOO!) that when he was told by Det. Proctor (while Reeves was still in the squad car) that Chad Oulson was in a very bad condition at the hospital -- I heard Reeves mutter: "All over some stinking popcorn."

About the athletic shoes -- Reeves didn't even recognize his own damned shoes??!! Okay. I see where he is going with this . . . if he loses on SYG, the secondary defense will be: "failing memory"?!

The eye injury -- did the photo REALLY show swelling over the eye??!!! If so, he bonged himself in the head before they booked him, maybe when he was getting into the squad car. Because in audio interview with Det. Proctor, as Reeves gets into the squad car he says: "O-oooo-hhhh!" (as if in pain from something that happened just then); followed by Det. Proctor saying: "Careful! . . . You O.K.?" (IMO -- MOO)

 

[alexwood]

Just getting in and can't stay long. Apparently there were signs somewhere in the theater that guns were not permitted inside. This officer on stand (Hamilton) stated he took his in anyway and it was in his wife's purse.

Tweets seem sporadic and I have lost the feed several times today. Could be the very windy weather we are having.

Yes, Spellbound. I do remember that there were signs posted (in theater lobby?) that Guns were Not Allowed inside Theater. I remember that from the bond hearing videos. But, I seem to remember that LE were allowed to carry guns into theater. And, even though Reeves was retired LE, he would have been included as if he were still an active LE member. So he would have been allowed to bring his gun into theater with him. (MOO!)

 

[indianwin2001]

Yes, Spellbound. I do remember that there were signs posted (in theater lobby?) that Guns were Not Allowed inside Theater. I remember that from the bond hearing videos. But, I seem to remember that LE were allowed to carry guns into theater. And, even though Reeves was retired LE, he would have been included as if he were still an active LE member. So he would have been allowed to bring his gun into theater with him. (MOO!)

Florida Law Enforcement certifications expire 4 years from the date you retire. Therefore C.R. was not an active LE member and has the same rights and authority as any average citizen and was not supposed to and had no authority to bring the gun in