FL - Chad Oulson, 43, killed in Wesley Chapel theater shooting, 13 Jan 2014 *Former LE arrest*

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SeesSeas said:
JMO
I’m leaning toward defending Reeves. Gaah! :gaah:
This is difficult for me because I particularly dislike bully cops and arrogant ex-cops.
I don’t think the 776.041 FL statute “exception” applies in this case. JMO. I could be wrong. And, my interpretation of the law doesn’t mean I agree with the law.
They were both A$$es, yes. But I don’t think Curtis Reeves “Initially provokes the use or threatened use of force against himself”. I think Reeves just wanted compliance with his verbal requests. Reeves wanted to be obeyed. They were both mouthy and neither wanted to back down from their verbal argument.
But I don’t see that CR’s behavior provoked a physical confrontation by CO. Reeves was provoking a verbal argument, yes. We see the physical confrontation on video, showing what appears to be Oulson threatening use of force, as well as using force toward Reeves.
It seems most agree this should not have escalated, but it did escalate. Two hotheads, and neither is going to back down. But it seems to me that Oulson was the initial physical aggressor. Reeves picked the fight, but Reeves was fighting verbally, not physically. Reeves didn’t de-escalate the situation. Reeves antagonized with his continual verbal comments. But, Reeves didn’t physically threaten Oulson. Oulson then came at Reeves physically.
Wow, if only Reeves didn’t have his gun in his pocket.

Yes, DisneyFan, if the husbands had simply listened to their wives! Males and females react differently. It’s the testosterone! An interesting medical article:
Testosterone and Aggressive Behavior in Man
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3693622/
Atavistic residues of aggressive behavior prevailing in animal life, determined by testosterone, remain attenuated in man and suppressed through familial and social inhibitions. However, it still manifests itself in various intensities and forms from; thoughts, anger, verbal aggressiveness, competition, dominance behavior, to physical violence. Testosterone plays a significant role in the arousal of these behavioral manifestations in the brain centers involved in aggression and on the development of the muscular system that enables their realization.
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I have to disagree with you Seeseas. C.R,as a retired cop is taught to diffuse situations--he did not,he escalated it. Knowledge of the Florida use of force laws are given to and gone over every year in mandatory inservice training. They are completely covered and every action he took goes counter to his training. He did not make any attempt to disengage from the scene,which would have been as easy as moving his seat,as his wife suggested they do. This is JMO,as a retired Florida law enforcement officer and what I know about the training he has had. Basically,as retired LE,he should have known better,he is not some 18 YO kid. I hope he goes to trial and id found guilty,but this is Florida, where apparently you can kill your infant child, go smoke some crack, throw your child in the woods in the middle of Orlando, accuse your father of doing it and be found innocent. Sorry for the rant, but I am still so,so,so pissed off about that case.
 
indianwin2001 said:
I have to disagree with you Seeseas. C.R,as a retired cop is taught to diffuse situations--he did not,he escalated it. Knowledge of the Florida use of force laws are given to and gone over every year in mandatory inservice training. They are completely covered and every action he took goes counter to his training. He did not make any attempt to disengage from the scene,which would have been as easy as moving his seat,as his wife suggested they do. This is JMO,as a retired Florida law enforcement officer and what I know about the training he has had. Basically,as retired LE,he should have known better,he is not some 18 YO kid. I hope he goes to trial and id found guilty,but this is Florida, where apparently you can kill your infant child, go smoke some crack, throw your child in the woods in the middle of Orlando, accuse your father of doing it and be found innocent. Sorry for the rant, but I am still so,so,so pissed off about that case.
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I do understand, and agree, that Reeves ‘should’ have acted according to his LE training. This would mean Reeves would have diffused the situation, rather than escalate it. Yes, Reeves escalated verbally. Wrong, bad, childish, inappropriate, arrogant, authoritative, etc; fill-in-the-blank with other descriptions of his unacceptable behavior.

BUT, Reeves will not, IMO, be judged by this judge based on his LE training. He will be judged as a citizen who felt threatened.

I, too “hope he goes to trial and is found guilty“. Why? Because I despise bad cops, and Reeves should not have had his gun in his pocket, and Reeves should not have killed Oulson. Yep, that’s what I want, too.

Unfortunately, I think Reeves has the LAW on his side.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.012.html
The 2016 Florida Statutes
776.012 Use or threatened use of force in defense of person.—
(2) A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person who uses or threatens to use deadly force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground if the person using or threatening to use the deadly force is not engaged in a criminal activity and is in a place where he or she has a right to be.
 
alexwood said:
Thanks, Spellbound! My comments here are not very timely, but anyway
:
Did the popcorn being thrown allegedly by Chad Oulson ever come up in Reeves testimony?
I can't remember what, if anything, Reeves said from the audio with Det. Proctor in squad car. Oh, yes! I do remember now. It is almost inaudible, but I could SWEAR (IMO -- MOO!) that when he was told by Det. Proctor (while Reeves was still in the squad car) that Chad Oulson was in a very bad condition at the hospital -- I heard Reeves mutter: "All over some stinking popcorn."

About the athletic shoes -- Reeves didn't even recognize his own damned shoes??!! Okay. I see where he is going with this . . . if he loses on SYG, the secondary defense will be: "failing memory"?!

The eye injury -- did the photo REALLY show swelling over the eye??!!! If so, he bonged himself in the head before they booked him, maybe when he was getting into the squad car. Because in audio interview with Det. Proctor, as Reeves gets into the squad car he says: "O-oooo-hhhh!" (as if in pain from something that happened just then); followed by Det. Proctor saying: "Careful! . . . You O.K.?" (IMO -- MOO)
Click to expand...


']I do not recall any testimony from Reeves about the popcorn. Does not mean it wasn't there, but it was not a big issue during his testimony.

I may have worded the shoe bit wrong. My apology for trying to keep up too fast. I believe Mr Reeves was inferring the white brightness may have been from his shoe, he did not know. He recognized it as his own shoe.

As far as I can tell from any videos or pics, I could not see any redness or swelling around the eyes or the face. I do believe I have seen a pic that was captioned as 'showing swellness", but I could not tell it was swollen.

Hope that helps
 
alexwood said:
Yes, Spellbound. I do remember that there were signs posted (in theater lobby?) that Guns were Not Allowed inside Theater. I remember that from the bond hearing videos. But, I seem to remember that LE were allowed to carry guns into theater. And, even though Reeves was retired LE, he would have been included as if he were still an active LE member. So he would have been allowed to bring his gun into theater with him. (MOO!)
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That is interesting, if true. I have not seen anything about exceptions to their no-guns rule, but it is possible. Too bad it was not mentioned during testimony, but I may have missed it. I recall losing my feed during Hamilton's time on stand, and ai think he is the officer viewing the movie who also had a gun with him.

ETA: I should have read indianwin'spost before replying. Since he is a retired Florida law officer, I would think he know more than us about this. Thanks, indianwin!

If he was not supposed to carry a gun into the theater, then seems he should not be able to claim "stand your ground ....?
 
http://live.tampabay.com/Event/Curtis_Reeve_Stand_Your_Ground_Case

 
So far today: Dan sullivan reporting on live coverage http://live.tampabay.com/Event/Curtis_Reeve_Stand_Your_Ground_Case

Judge expects her decision (and written order) no later than next Friday. Closings should be tomorrow.

first witness today is Detective Aaron Smith (testified during defense case) -he does work obtaining surveillance video of crimes

Smith returned to theater 2 days after crime, met with manager, watched remotely controlled videos.

State played videos. Reeves approaching desk, speaking to counter person, returning to theater. Then video of lobby when Mr & Mrs Reeves first arrived. Next video is inside theater from an angle I had not seen. Shows Mr & Mrs Reeves reaching and sitting in their seats. Wish they woykd show this angle more often, much easier to see the people seated.

Video is now showing Mr & Mrs Reeves from same angle we usually see. Seeing the popcorn tossed and the gunshot. Wow ... the video suddenly turned to color and is clearer. Stopped video there.

All these videos shown this morning will be used at prosecution closing tomorrow. No more questions from prosecutor at this time. ( I did not hear any questions of witness, but I believe these may be videos the witness extracted or used)

No questions on cross. Witness still under subpeona, could be called again (not likely).

Now playing audio of Reeves interview with detectives. Reeves was mirandized. Starting by asking about his career in law enforcement and got water for Reeves, Reeves skunds quite calm. Reeves: "This is crazy, it is absurd, I tell cops you never do this, but I never had anybody do ..(I missed this).... like this. "

[It will be well worth you all listening to this later. I don't think I can keep up typing well, and I just lost my feed. Have to reset video.]

Reeves telling how hus glasses got knocked crooked. Says he felt he had something in his eye ("I still do"). Reached for gun in pocket. "Came out of my pocket with it, surprised I didn't shoot myself in the hand" "I have arthritis in my hand, my back is a wreck."

His wife sitting to his right: "If she's paying attention, there is no justification for what happened in there" [not sure if he meant according to her, or if this is his own thinking]

Whatever he (Mr. O) was saying was threatening, enough for Reeves to try to look for a way out. When he was going to manager his wife said they should have just got up and moved. "She was right." Reeves made contact with something (O's arm or chest) as he was coming over toward him, and R was saying no, no, no or something like that. After the shot he said to himself, "Oh ****, this is stupid. But whatever, I'm an older man." If I had it to do over agsin, it wouldn't have happened. We would have moved. But you don't get to do it over." "He said something that led me to believe....." If he was younger, he might have wrassled it out, but he is 71 yrs. old. [I am missing a lot thay seems important. Hope you get to hear it yourselves]

Lady sitting one seat away should have seen everything, his wife sitting next to him was right there, a space for his son and then other people sitting there.

He trains others that even if you think you are 100% (or was it 1000%?) right and the other person is 100% wrong, these things shouldn't happen (paraphrased).

R is speaking about seeing popcorn all around, apparently it is his (Oulson's).

When asked if this should have been elevated to taking a life, Reeves says he would like to say no, unfortunately it is yes. If he got a bruise on an arm it takes 3 months to heal, he can't take an aspirin, got hit in eye and thinking he didn't want to be blind. Since retired, nobody has scared him, this guy scared him sh...less.

Reeves commented if this is going [further, or something similar] he is going to need to get an attorney. "Get all the questions you want because if you scare the s--- out of me, I'm gonna have to get an attorney."
Reeves says his wife made a comment like "what was that?" or "why'd you do that?"

Now playing second interview. (sounds like they are in the car, driving away) Reeves is informed Oulson is dead. Officer says he hates what he has to do right now but has no choice. "My life is ruined, my wife's life is ruined, his family life is ruined." Officer says everyone he has talked it over with is in agreement, R will have a bond, knows all the procedures, will make sure they know he was in law enforcement and will be treated with due accordance just like everybody else.

Wife never saw a punch, says saw O leaned over, she never saw a punch. R says he never saw the punch either, just got hit by something and there was nobody else there.

10 minute recess now.

 
Next up is a theater patron. Chuck Cummings. Sat about 3-4 seats away from Oulsons, closer to the aisle, with his son. At one point he heard Mr. O say something like "Are you trying to get me thrown out of the theater?" As Reeves left the theater, Mr. C felt he was agitated, mumbling to self and demeanor felt upset. Mr. R bumped the back of Mr C's seat. He saw Mr O stand up and turn around, but was not paying attention; then saw popcorn flying in the air. He saw the flash and heard sound of gun. Saw Mr O stumble 2-3 seats (toward him and aisle)and Mr. O fell onto his son. Heard "I can't believe he shot me" . He started chest compressions and told his son to call 911. Someone else also helped with the CPR, until rescue help arrived.

Later he filled out a statement (was by then sitting in the lower level of seats). His son is now 37.

Defense now on cross. Asking if Mr. Cummings had given a deposition (yes).
Comparing his answers from depo (2+ years ago) to today's answers.

[I have to go out for a bit now]
 
http://live.tampabay.com/Event/Curtis_Reeve_Stand_Your_Ground_Case

 
http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts...-says-she-expects-to-rule-by-march-10/2315088
Judge in Reeves 'stand your ground' case says she expects to rule by March 10
Thursday, March 2, 2017 11:37am
DADE CITY — Circuit Judge Susan Barthle wants to be done with the "stand your ground" hearing in the Curtis Reeves case.
[…]
Barthle will determine if Florida's controversial "stand your ground" law protects Reeves, who maintains that he fired in self-defense on Jan. 13, 2014, believing Oulson was about to strike him.
If the judge agrees, Reeves could be cleared of charges. Otherwise, he will head to trial for second-degree murder.
 
We have lost our video feed. Right now they are showing what appears to be a major fire at an apartment or townhouse complex. I will try to follow tweets by Dan Sullivan (in italics, if I quote his tweet) at http://live.tampabay.com/Event/Curtis_Reeve_Stand_Your_Ground_Case

State calls Jane Roy, was with her husband at theater, sat in back row. The Reeves couple were down the row to her left (and she has limited vision in left eye, and deaf in left ear). She could not hear what either couple said, but could tell Reeves was agitated when he got up ( mumbling and brusk). Concerned there might be physical confrontation. Knew Reeves was a very big man, she heard bits of words from the two couples, did not see anyone hit another, saw popcorn flying, an arm, and a flash. Saw Oulson fall, worried there would be a fight, thought she smelled gunpowder; she and her husband left the theater.

Escobar (defense) now doing cross.
She says she heard nothing until Reeves "leaned forward and he started with the cell phone business."

"There was so much going on between the two of them. It was just nerve-racking."

She and her husband went out to lobby waiting area and sat down. Could hear people chatting everywhere, but she did not know what they were actually talking ablut. "Everybody was chatting." Were not told to not disciss what had been seen. She and husband spoke to each other. Afterward, they listened to news every night; they had a police officer interview at theater.

Witness done for now.

Next: Derek Friedhoff, another theater-attendee. Young looking guy, has been a registered nurse @ 7 years. Attended with girlfriend. Entered theater @ 1:19 pm. Movie was to start 1:20. Does not recall seeing trailers playing. Sat on left side, three rows from top. Did not pay attention to people around, did not see either Oulson or Reeves couples. Previews started as they sat down. Could tell if people were drinking, eating, moving about. Heard bickering while waiting for movie, slightly behind and to the back of him. Most was inaudible, saw a cellphone illuminated on a person's knee, heard something like "texting my daughter." Was not concerning to him. Saw someone leave the theater, did not know who. Did not see him come back. Heard more commotion and paid attention, felt concern; heart more bickering, saw a silhouette movement, crumpled paper sound, something thrown, gunshot.

He called 911, saw popcorn on ground. Never saw any physical touch, but had seen a forward motion toward Mr. Reeves. Did not see Mr. Oulson on a seat. After forward momentum of whatever was thrown, he did see a flash from muzzle; heard "show you" or "teach you" followed by "throw popcorn at me" from Mr. Reeves. Did not know if safe to render aid or if he should leave. Determined safe to go help Mr. Oukson. Called 922, asked if anyone could do CPR, then he took over CPR until rescue came. He heard agonal breathing.

His first time seeing something like this happen in front of him; it was a very traumatic event. Paramedics came. Mr. R escorted from theater. They were instructed where to wait for police to come. Another person said to the group they could talk among themselves but not about the case. He assumed it was someone from law enforcement. He assumed everyone should have been able to hear the statement. Kept mostly to himself, no communication with others.

short break now.
 
Cross exam. by defense now.

Derek Friedhoff still on stand.

Chose nursing to help people. Has worked in trauma, but this was first time he saw something like this unfold. Eventually he was able to wash off. He and girlfriend received a plaque for their service in theater. (No longer are a couple, he and former girlfriend) Was probably three rows ahead of commotion area. If he leaned the chair back and looked to his right slightly, he could see Reeves/Oulson. Saw a cellphone at mid-chest level (seated) as best he could tell. Heard two separate instances of bickering. Looked back for a second time, saw silhouette of someone standing, movement toward person in back row. Heard a crumpling noise; saw movement of something thrown and landing. At about same time of gunshot he heard something like "I'll teach you to throw something at me." The full sentence was not before the gunshot, but seemed at same time.

From bond hearing, @ 1 month after hearing, sworn testimony from Mr. Friedhoff. Asked (during bond hearing) if he heard before or after the shot the comment from Mr. Reeves, and he had agreed it was before. Now he recalls hearing something inaudible, heard gunshot, and then "throwing popcorn on me." Now he feels he has processed the incident better and is less stressed than at time of bond hearing. Trying at best of his ability to explain now, Escobar asked if he lied then. Cannot remember now word-for-word what he may have said.

Escobar is picking apart whether he heard the comment about "teach you to throw popcorn on me" before, after, or during the gunshot.

Mr. F did not see Mr. O collapse, cannot say if he walked at all first. Saw Reeves sitting in seat. Others were attempting CPR, he took over starting compressions and asked fro a flashlight.

When out in lobby waiting, someone called them heroes, he responded they were nurses just doing what they were trained for. No other conversation about what had happened. He did not pay attention to what others may have been talking about, he kept to himself. Escobar now using the deposition: previously he said he believed some talked about what they witnessed. Now he says he cannot recall exactly what was said, but he did not hear anything specific. Previously he had said he heard others say "yeah, the guy shot him, I think it was about popcorn or something." He now says he heard that when he was doing CPR.

Cross done. No more questions. Witness released
 
indianwin2001 said:
As a retired Florida law enforcement officer,I can tell you we had mandatory in-service training every year. The First thing we were taught every year was to difuse the situation. That was pounded into our brains. This guy had much more responsibility and training than I ever did. He knew to difuse the situation but he chose to ESCALATE it instead. End of story in my book. On to the trial.
Click to expand...

I appreciate your perspective. When Curtis Reeves was on the stand his attorney went over his training and experience in great detail. I think that hurts his case rather than helps him. Someone with all that training should have known better.

The most interesting moment of Reeves testimony was when the prosecutor asked him about leaving his wife alone in the theater with the Oulson when he went to get the manager.
 
State calls Mark Turner. Retired. Was in aviation industry after US Air Force (Lt. Col.) Was a clandestine case officer, trained in surveillance and counter-surveillance, was trained to observe things (where was at and what is around or out of place). Always being aware of his surroundings is still ingrained, second nature to him no matter where he is. He is married.

Attended Cobb theater that day. Arrived @ 1:30 or so, it could have been prior. Chose to sit at aisle area, at back of theater, previews were just beginning. Dark, but he could see. The Oulsons and Reeves were already seated, but Mr. Reeves was not in his seat at that time.... after he sat down Mr. Reeves came to his seat. They were probably 8 seats away. He says he is always on heightened alert due to his background/training. Watched Mr. Reeves go bsck to his sest, oticed nothing unusual then. Observed part of dialogue , heard Mr. O say something sbout texting his daughter. Reeves response was not clear, but caused a reaction from Mr. Oulson -- Mr. O reached over, grabbed Mr R's popcorn and flicked it back at him. Almost instantaneously he saw a wespon fire, muzzle flash, saw him put gun back in his lap. Was so fluid and fast that he concluded it was a trained individual who fired, based on his own experience.

Mr. Turner stood up at the time of comment about texting. Mr, O was standing with cellphone in left hand. Appeared to be scrolling through something on phone. Appeared Mr. O bent just enough to grab the popcorn. Could not see if knee was on the chair seat. Did not see Mr. Oulson strike, slap, hit, or throw cell phone at Mr. Reeves. As popcorn flew he heard Mr. Reeves make statement "almost simultaneously" he said "throw pipcorn in my face''' as a derogatory statement. Mr. Reeves sat bsck in his sest, lut his head in hands as though to say "ehat have I done?" He heard Mr. Oulson say "I don't believe this" as he took a step and dropped.

Mr. Turner immediatley put his wife behind him to protect her from a line of fire should there be more gunfire. Saw someone secure the pistol, eject the clip. At that point Mr. Turner turned his attention to the Oulsons. Mrs. O's hand was bleeding. His attention changed from a threat to trying to provide help. His wife gave her napkins to put around the finger.

And our feed is gone ... Department of Justice symbol and chatters on-screen/ Is there some news feed coming? Yes, news conference with Jeff Sessions. :gaah:
 
Tweets from Dan Sullivan:


Dan Sullivan@TimesDan
Turner talked to Nicole Oulson after the shooting. Asked if there was anyone she wanted him to call to care for her child. She gave a number

A few sniffles from Oulson's relatives, friends as Turner descibes shooting.

Turner says he filled out voluntary statement form.

Turner says he never saw Mrs. Oulson trying to hold Mr. Oulson back.

Done with direct. Escobar begins cross exam of Turner.

Escobar asks Turner about when he first sat down if he saw a man standing. He did. Could see cell phone in his hand.

Turner says he didn't think he would have been appropriate to stand up in the middle of the theater.

"It's not something I would do, but the movie hadn't started yet."

Turner says the man standing he later learned was Chad Oulson.

Turner says he took note of Reeves as he came walking up the stairs.

Turner says he believed Reeves was wearing a "London Fog" tan jacket.

Reeves told him he needed to get past him. Turner said he said so politely.

Escobar asks if Turner heard Oulson's voice over previews. He says he did.

Turner says he saw Oulson turn toward Reeves.

Escobar asks if he heard "I'm texting my f---ing daughter." Turner says the f-word wasn't said.

Turner, of Oulson: "I would say he was frustrated, perturbed perhaps, but not angered."

Turner says he didn't hear Reeves say anything.

Escobar asks if Turner agrees that someone could get angry without anyone directing a comment to them. "Sure," he says.

Turner says he got up because he wanted a better view of what was going on.

"I didn't know what was going to happen next." Turner says he thought it might be possible that Reeves could get punched.

Turner says he saw Reeves leaning back in seat.

State objects, says Escobar is yelling his questions at Turner.

Escobar asks if he thought whatever happened was not going to be good. State objects, says it calls for speculation.

State objects to Escobar's questioning, says the questions have all been asked and answered. Judge agrees. Says to move on.

Turner says heard gun, saw muzzle flash.
 
Continuing Tweets from Dan Sullivan:
Escobar doing cross.

Dan Sullivan@TimesDan
Escobar keeps going over what Turner has said of his account of the shooting. State keeps objecting

Turner says immediately after the shot, everything went quiet. "Everybody stopped."


Escobar asks if Turner, a military man, was troubled by shooting. "To be completely honest, it was very familiar."

Turner's wife was very upset by shooting, he says.

Escobar asks if Turner's wife had conversation about what they had seen. He says no. Escobar goes back to deposition.

Escobar reads from deposition, in which Turner says his wife told him she had seen dark object thrown at Reeves.

State objects, says conversation happened after they had submitted their statements.

[Escobar says he is asking questions about what they talked about after the statement... Mr. Turner does not remeber if it was after the statement or after they got home]

State wants Escobar to be more specific about time frame. They begin to talk over each other. Judge: "Stop. One at a time."

Turner says he's certain the conversation wouldn't have been before they gave statements to law enforcement.

Going back to before shooting, Turner says he saw Nicole Oulson putting her hand on husband's chest as he moved toward Reeves. [in more of a conjoling manner]

Turner says he didn't think that would be effective in forcing him down because he was a big guy.

[Escobar says when they were all milling about afterward, there were about 40-60 people from the theater]

Turner says he can't say whether witnesses were or were not talking about the shooting.

[live video gone again]

Escobar asks if Turner recalls saying in deposition that people in concession area were talking among themselves.

Turner says he remembers people talking, can't say what substance of conversation was.

Turner, at one point, got testy with Escobar as he went over things said in deposition. Turner asked: "Are you questioning my integrity?"

Turner says at some point witnesses were moved into a room together. Defense keeps hitting on theme of witness contamination.

Escobar is done with Turner.

State has no further questions. Turner is excused.

Turner is the last witness

 
Tweets continuing from Dan Sullivan:

Dan Sullivan@TimesDan
Judge and attorneys discussing evidence that has been admitted.

Closing arguments will be tomorrow. Escobar says his will be a couple hours.

Judge says both sides will get equal time. Martin: "I don't have to do 3 hours, do I?" Courtroom laughter.

Court in recess until 9 a.m. tomorrow.



 
DisneyFan said:
Descriptive quote from Chad Ouleson Obituary:

"he was referred as leader, mentor, organizer, funny guy, genuine, entertainer, aggravator, instigator, go-getter, over the top and full-throttle guy."

I was most interested in the description of "aggravator, instigator, over the top, and full throttle guy. " Those fit the actions of the victim that day. I do believe he was an aggressor. I don't believe, in my opinion Mr. Reeves was on his best behavior either. They were both acting as a@@holes in my opinions. Unfortunately this type of childish behavior has life long consequences.

So sorry for both wives in this situation.
Click to expand...

That is a most unusual obituary and made even more strange considering how he died. I am shocked that his wife would permit that to be published. Still no cause to get shot but some of those terms are frankly far less than a good way to talk about someone that was murdered.
 
turaj said:
That is a most unusual obituary and made even more strange considering how he died. I am shocked that his wife would permit that to be published. Still no cause to get shot but some of those terms are frankly far less than a good way to talk about someone that was murdered.
Click to expand...

Also just watched the first comments today with defense wanting to do extensive memo etc. and delay the decision weeks....the judge stopped just short of saying she has already decided but you could see that is the situation...this defense would have any judge ready to explode....she is pretty calm....will not review anymore and has everything she needs....state very very smart to condense their case...hit it hard do a good closing and get on with it. This will go to trial but honestly not sure it will be any sooner than a couple of years. Sad for the Oulsen family.
 
listening to Reeves in first interview...he is literally making this up as he goes....he says "I hope people around me saw it" already setting up his story....he does not even sound upset and keeps saying that he could not get out...why? Were people stopping him. Keeps saying Oulson jumped over the seat...the video shows that is a big far lie....this judge is so over this case...she is done!!
 
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