With all of them killed it’s impossible to really know if those “missing items” were actually taken at all (not likely there was a true inventory taken by the couple prior to the murders), in my opinion they could have been discarded at some point by the Walker’s. My point is that this may not have been an attack by a killer known to them who had to have a trophy.
FL FL - Clifford & Christine Walker, both 23, & 2 kids, Osprey, 20 Dec 1959
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While this case has a full cast of "usual suspects" to choose from, I still think that the fact that Perry Smith and Dick Hickock were in the near vicinity is a Big Coincidence that cannot be ignored.
These guys were nuts and anything that might have been taken or done during the commission of these horrible murders is not beyond the crazed imaginations of Perry and Dick.
These guys were nuts and anything that might have been taken or done during the commission of these horrible murders is not beyond the crazed imaginations of Perry and Dick.
PayrollNerd
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If the DNA is really degraded after all this time, that may be why it was inconclusive. However, DNA testing with smaller, lower quality samples has really improved lately. Perhaps they can try again.
maaquilino
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Just read that a niece found their marriage certificate in belongings a relative gave her. Anyone else hear about that?
No but would be interesting to know “who”...
PayrollNerd
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Do you have a main stream media (MSM) link?
Here are the parameters used for providing info:
The Rules
Just found this rabbit hole. I read the entire thread and am following. Maaquilino, if this is true,I wonder if they have the majorette outfit as well. Also, I wonder if this is from
Cliff's family or Christine's.
Cliff's family or Christine's.
PrivateInspector007
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What an odd case with so many different suspects. The bottom link that has the interview with Cliff's nephew states that the weird cousin was ruled out by DNA. Then how did the niece get the marriage certificate? Was it a copy? Did she lie? I can't seem to find a link or any positive information that she did in fact have the original copy, if anyone has it, I'd be interested to read about it.
At first, I thought it had to be someone who knew the family because the personal items that were taken. I read that the marriage certificate hung on the wall - maybe family member took it when clearing out the house? Or the murderer took it maybe to steal their identities? I don't know.
The stolen majorette outfit, they said it was in a trunk, maybe the murderer was looking for money and just took the outfit thinking it could be sold for money or maybe he kept as memento.
Not sure what to think about this horrible case, I hope the family gets justice. I agree with other posters they should try running DNA again.
More Info:
Details & additional suspects: The suspects: A litany of names and clues
December 19, 1959: The Walker Family Murders | What Lies Beyond
Interview with Christine's sister: Sister's violent death left a tormented family
Walker nephew interview:
After 50 years, Walkers wait to learn who killed their relatives
At first, I thought it had to be someone who knew the family because the personal items that were taken. I read that the marriage certificate hung on the wall - maybe family member took it when clearing out the house? Or the murderer took it maybe to steal their identities? I don't know.
The stolen majorette outfit, they said it was in a trunk, maybe the murderer was looking for money and just took the outfit thinking it could be sold for money or maybe he kept as memento.
Not sure what to think about this horrible case, I hope the family gets justice. I agree with other posters they should try running DNA again.
More Info:
Details & additional suspects: The suspects: A litany of names and clues
December 19, 1959: The Walker Family Murders | What Lies Beyond
Interview with Christine's sister: Sister's violent death left a tormented family
Walker nephew interview:
After 50 years, Walkers wait to learn who killed their relatives
| Perry Edward Smith | ||
|---|---|---|
 Kansas State Penitentiary - March, 1960 LINK: 
Perry Edward Smith - Wikipedia
Richard Hickock - Wikipedia |
When one considers the several potential suspects in this murder of an entire family, Perry and Dick stand out as the most likely. They had already murdered an entire family for no sane reasons. They traveled all across the country and were in the close vicinity of the Walker home at the time of the murders.
They really needed no "reason" or "motive" for killing the Walker family, and anything they might have taken from the scene could only be rationalized by realizing how crazy they were. The movie "In Cold Blood", based on Truman Capote's book by the same name, is very good in portraying these two killers, but it probably does not go all the way in showing their depravity.
Scott Wilson (who played Hershel Greene in the Walking Dead) was a young 24-year-old actor chosen to portray Dick Hickock in the movie. He, possibly more than anyone else, really studied Hickock and tried to get into his mind. Here is an interesting interview in which Wilson discusses the making of the movie, and his thoughts on the murders:
paleymatters.org
They really needed no "reason" or "motive" for killing the Walker family, and anything they might have taken from the scene could only be rationalized by realizing how crazy they were. The movie "In Cold Blood", based on Truman Capote's book by the same name, is very good in portraying these two killers, but it probably does not go all the way in showing their depravity.
Scott Wilson (who played Hershel Greene in the Walking Dead) was a young 24-year-old actor chosen to portray Dick Hickock in the movie. He, possibly more than anyone else, really studied Hickock and tried to get into his mind. Here is an interesting interview in which Wilson discusses the making of the movie, and his thoughts on the murders:
He Was There: Scott Wilson Remembers “In Cold Blood”
An interview with the actor who portrayed Dick Hickock in the 1967 film.
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The more and more I researched, the less I came to believe they were responsible. I guess the one key fact is...why didn't they just admit it after they were on death row? No point in denying then. Plus why would they still her high school uniform? Doesn't make a lot of sense. It's also worth pointing out the knife they recovered that they thought was Cliffs was a fairly common knife and there was no engraving linking it to Cliff.When one considers the several potential suspects in this murder of an entire family, Perry and Dick stand out as the most likely. They had already murdered an entire family for no sane reasons. They traveled all across the country and were in the close vicinity of the Walker home at the time of the murders.
They really needed no "reason" or "motive" for killing the Walker family, and anything they might have taken from the scene could only be rationalized by realizing how crazy they were. The movie "In Cold Blood", based on Truman Capote's book by the same name, is very good in portraying these two killers, but it probably does not go all the way in showing their depravity.
Scott Wilson (who played Hershel Greene in the Walking Dead) was a young 24-year-old actor chosen to portray Dick Hickock in the movie. He, possibly more than anyone else, really studied Hickock and tried to get into his mind. Here is an interesting interview in which Wilson discusses the making of the movie, and his thoughts on the murders:
He Was There: Scott Wilson Remembers “In Cold Blood”
An interview with the actor who portrayed Dick Hickock in the 1967 film.
And as far as the murders in Kansas, it was a sane reason to them. It was about money.
I actually the most likely murderer was the guy Christine was allegedly having an affair with...Curtis McCall. The guys own cousin came out and told detectives that they had never stopped seeing each other since high school. It paints a picture that Christine really wanted to be with him, but it didnt happen for whatever reason and she "settled" with Cliff. And continued to see the other man. McCall was a violent man and detectives said he was "no-good trouble-making sort of person". He also had actually worked for the state police as a dispatcher before getting fired because of his violent tendencies. I dont know what standard operating procedures were implemented at the time; but it appears he was on patrol with a state trooper. But anyways the state trooper pulled someone over and McCall started abusing the cuffed individual. The state trooper reported him. An internal investigation was started and found "McCall attacked the arrested subject with his fists and became so violent that the trooper had to slap McCall to bring him to his senses. McCall said that he didn't even remember hitting the arrested subject". This led to his firing.
It's also worth noting with his background in law enforcement, he may have been able to cover up the crime correctly.
Very lengthy.
Jan 26 2023
www.tampabay.com
By Leonora LaPeter Anton Times staff
''The Walkers’ wood frame cottage stood plain and white, surrounded by pasture land and hardwood forest. There in tiny Osprey, on the southern tip of the vast Palmer Ranch, the family’s nearest neighbor was half a mile away.
As daylight broke on Dec. 20, 1959, half a dozen lawmen stood in the living room and stared down in silence.
Christine lay barefoot, bruised and bloody, her pink flowered dress pulled up, her slips and petticoats in a muddle. Clifford and the children had been ambushed, the young father on his back in the living room, still wearing his straw cowboy hat, a bullet hole in his right eye. Jimmie was curled up next to his dad, blood smeared on his clothes and in his hair, suggesting he’d crawled to his father as the killer shot him three times in the head. Baby Debbie, they found in the bathtub, facedown in 4 inches of water, also shot in the head.''
Jan 26 2023
If not him, who? Florida man begs for action on sister’s cold case murder
The Walker family murders haunt a victim’s brother, who wants answers before he dies. He points to the ‘In Cold Blood’ killers.
''The Walkers’ wood frame cottage stood plain and white, surrounded by pasture land and hardwood forest. There in tiny Osprey, on the southern tip of the vast Palmer Ranch, the family’s nearest neighbor was half a mile away.
As daylight broke on Dec. 20, 1959, half a dozen lawmen stood in the living room and stared down in silence.
Christine lay barefoot, bruised and bloody, her pink flowered dress pulled up, her slips and petticoats in a muddle. Clifford and the children had been ambushed, the young father on his back in the living room, still wearing his straw cowboy hat, a bullet hole in his right eye. Jimmie was curled up next to his dad, blood smeared on his clothes and in his hair, suggesting he’d crawled to his father as the killer shot him three times in the head. Baby Debbie, they found in the bathtub, facedown in 4 inches of water, also shot in the head.''
There certainly was a great deal of inept handling of this case from the beginning- mishandling of evidence, assuming another agency would do its job, ignoring or ruling out possible suspects, etc.
It is good to see that there are still detectives and family members who are interested in solving these murders.
The article does mention that Perry Smith and Dick Hickock were in the area and should be considered strong suspects..
It is good to see that there are still detectives and family members who are interested in solving these murders.
The article does mention that Perry Smith and Dick Hickock were in the area and should be considered strong suspects..
Maybe there is hope now with further testing of the DNA, imo.
2013
www.dailymail.co.uk
''Authorities said they were unable to match the DNA because only partial profiles could be taken from the exhumed bodies in December, and the Walker crime scene samples were old and degraded. No more tests were scheduled.
‘The complication lies in the fact that there's still some uncertainty,’ Bell said. ‘It wouldn't exclude them but it also does not provide us with any level of confidence to say there's a match because there's not.’
Police still believe the two men were likely involved.
‘We're not closing the case,’ Bell said. ‘It remains an unsolved murder. The mystery continues and we'll look for other opportunities. We've reached a point where we don't believe we're going to accomplish that through DNA testing.’
Testing decades-old DNA can be difficult, said Dr. Michael Baird, the laboratory director of the DNA Diagnostics Center in Ohio.''
2013
Hopes of solving 1959 quadruple murder cold case are dashed as police fail to connect 'In Cold Blood' killers with slain Florida family
The brutal murders of Christine and Cliff Walker and their two children in Osprey, Florida had long been connected to Richard Hickock and Perry Smith of In Cold Blood infamy.
‘The complication lies in the fact that there's still some uncertainty,’ Bell said. ‘It wouldn't exclude them but it also does not provide us with any level of confidence to say there's a match because there's not.’
Police still believe the two men were likely involved.
‘We're not closing the case,’ Bell said. ‘It remains an unsolved murder. The mystery continues and we'll look for other opportunities. We've reached a point where we don't believe we're going to accomplish that through DNA testing.’
Testing decades-old DNA can be difficult, said Dr. Michael Baird, the laboratory director of the DNA Diagnostics Center in Ohio.''
Much of what is known regarding Perry and Dick's motives behind the Clutter family murders comes from Perry and Dick themselves by way of interviews with Trueman Capote. Capote was the author of the book In Cold Blood.
The book and the movie by the same name are true classics. But one does have to consider the source(s). Dick Hickcock didn't admit to much, and although Perry Smith admitted to some things, he did omit others. For instance, he did not admit to actually killing the family and there was some question as to which of them (or if both) actually pulled the trigger on their four victims.
Although the robbery motive was played up as the main reason they chose the Clutter family, there had to be deeper drives in them to kill the entire family.
When considering the many possible suspects in the Walker murder, only Perry and Dick truly fit the bill. They had just murdered, during a home invasion, another family of four (father, mother, and children) for no rational reason, taking from the scene small insignificant items. In both instances, they had no known previous connections to their victims.
A key piece of forensic evidence left at the Clutter murder scene was a bloody boot print. A very similar print was left behind at the Walker scene.
A heinous crime of this sort was committed by a person or persons with absolutely no morals and no human compassion.
The book and the movie by the same name are true classics. But one does have to consider the source(s). Dick Hickcock didn't admit to much, and although Perry Smith admitted to some things, he did omit others. For instance, he did not admit to actually killing the family and there was some question as to which of them (or if both) actually pulled the trigger on their four victims.
Although the robbery motive was played up as the main reason they chose the Clutter family, there had to be deeper drives in them to kill the entire family.
When considering the many possible suspects in the Walker murder, only Perry and Dick truly fit the bill. They had just murdered, during a home invasion, another family of four (father, mother, and children) for no rational reason, taking from the scene small insignificant items. In both instances, they had no known previous connections to their victims.
A key piece of forensic evidence left at the Clutter murder scene was a bloody boot print. A very similar print was left behind at the Walker scene.
A heinous crime of this sort was committed by a person or persons with absolutely no morals and no human compassion.
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meanmaryjean
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DNA could crack a notorious Florida cold case
It was among Florida’s oldest unsolved crimes on record, notorious for its brutality, as well as for a pool of suspects that numbered over 600. High among them: The killers made infamous in Truman Capote’s true crime classic “In Cold Blood.”
Long but well written
Feb 6 2023 Lengthy article. rbbm
www.cbsnews.com
''Myers had grown up around people devastated by the family's deaths, relatives who also made trips over the years to the sheriff's office, who visited Christine's and Cliff's graves and held them close.
There came a point that his older sister, Novella, couldn't handle going anymore. And Pat promised her he would make sure to keep it alive, to fight for a resolution. As he saw his own health slipping, he felt the weight of that vow.
He'd lied to Novella before she died in 2021.
"It was them, the 'In Cold Blood' killers," he'd said. The relief the 82-year-old felt had come through on the phone. Her voice even sounded different.
Myers wanted to feel that way too. And if he didn't push for this, who would?''
In 1959, the Walker family was found murdered in their Florida home. Now DNA could crack the notorious cold case.
It is among Florida's oldest unsolved crimes on record, notorious for its brutality, as well as for a pool of suspects that numbered over 600.
www.cbsnews.com
There came a point that his older sister, Novella, couldn't handle going anymore. And Pat promised her he would make sure to keep it alive, to fight for a resolution. As he saw his own health slipping, he felt the weight of that vow.
He'd lied to Novella before she died in 2021.
"It was them, the 'In Cold Blood' killers," he'd said. The relief the 82-year-old felt had come through on the phone. Her voice even sounded different.
Myers wanted to feel that way too. And if he didn't push for this, who would?''
There is a book published in 2019 titled - And Every Word Is True, by Gary McAvery which goes into much detail regarding the 1959 murder of the Clutter family in Kansas.
Central to much of his narrative and conclusions are letters written by Dick Hickok and sent (through prison censors) to Mack Nations who was writing a book with/for Hickock. That book was never published and the manuscript, along with Dick's original letters is missing. However, the prison censors did make copies of the letters.
It would appear that Hickock may well have been hired to kill Herb Clutter, and that the robbery motive was only a preplanned cover. In one letter he states that he entered the house with the intent to kill Mr. Clutter, and maybe others and that they had to make it look like a robbery.
A key witness for the prosecution was Floyd Wells, a former prison cellmate of Dick. He claimed to have told Dick about a safe in the Clutter house, but denied having provided a detailed map and layout of the house.
Hickock comes across as a true sociopath who enjoyed killing and the feeling of power and accomplishment it gave him.
An interesting part of the story involves Perry Smith's "box of junk" which they had mailed from Mexico to Nevada. They had just picked up the box at the post office and were parked outside a mechanics garage awaiting a chance to steal a generator for their stolen 1956 Chevrolet, when two policemen recognized their car from bulletins.
Perry and Dick were arrested and their possessions searched. In the box of junk were the shoes each had worn during the Clutter Murder which matched bloody prints found at the scene. Had they been picked up earlier that day, before retrieving the post office package, investigators might not have obtained the forensic evidence linking them to the murders.
Central to much of his narrative and conclusions are letters written by Dick Hickok and sent (through prison censors) to Mack Nations who was writing a book with/for Hickock. That book was never published and the manuscript, along with Dick's original letters is missing. However, the prison censors did make copies of the letters.
It would appear that Hickock may well have been hired to kill Herb Clutter, and that the robbery motive was only a preplanned cover. In one letter he states that he entered the house with the intent to kill Mr. Clutter, and maybe others and that they had to make it look like a robbery.
A key witness for the prosecution was Floyd Wells, a former prison cellmate of Dick. He claimed to have told Dick about a safe in the Clutter house, but denied having provided a detailed map and layout of the house.
Hickock comes across as a true sociopath who enjoyed killing and the feeling of power and accomplishment it gave him.
An interesting part of the story involves Perry Smith's "box of junk" which they had mailed from Mexico to Nevada. They had just picked up the box at the post office and were parked outside a mechanics garage awaiting a chance to steal a generator for their stolen 1956 Chevrolet, when two policemen recognized their car from bulletins.
Perry and Dick were arrested and their possessions searched. In the box of junk were the shoes each had worn during the Clutter Murder which matched bloody prints found at the scene. Had they been picked up earlier that day, before retrieving the post office package, investigators might not have obtained the forensic evidence linking them to the murders.
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LINK:
Hopes of solving 1959 quadruple murder cold case are dashed as police fail to connect 'In Cold Blood' killers with slain Florida family
The brutal murders of Christine and Cliff Walker and their two children in Osprey, Florida had long been connected to Richard Hickock and Perry Smith of In Cold Blood infamy.