FL FL - Clifford & Christine Walker, both 23, & 2 kids, Osprey, 20 Dec 1959

[justthinkin]

Maybe I was far too quick to dismiss Wilbur Tooker, Tucker or Tocker. He appears in a photo taken at the crime scene with the LEOs investigating the case. The news page is a little blurry, but it looks to me like they have his name as Wilbur H. Tucker. He was described in another article as a 65 yr. old, retired railroad worker. I can't see his whole face, but from what I cansee he really doesn't look that old. JMO
Oddly, I can't find him listed in SSDI under any of the the above spellings of his last name.

 

[MaryLiz]

ITA, MaryLiz. It seems to me, the killer was planning on waiting for Cliff to come home. Why else would he drag the body towards the living room?

While I also suspect the killer was someone Christine knew from her high school days, if as one of the articles mentioned, she would put on her majorette uniform at times for people visiting her house, then it could have been someone who'd only seen her wearing it there. Regardless, that majorette uniform with Christine in it, made an impact on the killer!

"The killer pulled a quilt over the pillow on Jimmie's bed, covering up blood." That bit of info is baffling. Here we have a killer who is planning on lying in wait to kill Cliff, in addition to Christine, but why cover up the blood on the bed? Is it a sign the killer at least felt a momentary sense of guilt or remorse? Offhand, I can't think of any other reason he would do that. The sight of her blood must have disturbed him somewhat, ridiculous as it seems.

I just thought maybe he was pulling Christine's body out toward the living room to sort of put her on display, so to speak. Then when the family came home, they would immediately see her. I guess I'd like to believe that the murderer didn't really intend to kill those two poor innocent children from the get-go. I just thought that it was a possibility he killed the whole family because they came home before he had a chance to get out of there.

But anything is possible in this horrible crime. The perp was obviously pretty sick, so he could have known Cliff and the kids would be there shortly and planned to kill them as well.

I just wonder why NOTHING has been publicized about the DNA results for nearly 5 years. I know the results take a long time, but surely by now they would have run the tests through on everyone and would know if they had a match. It seems like everything just suddenly stopped in this case as far as publicity.

 

[justthinkin]

MaryLiz,

I think the killer was doing a little staging. Despite the fact he was able to shoot Cliff as soon as he stepped in the door, I think the killer's original intent was to drag Christine into the living room, and to hopefully, momentarily distract Cliff so he, could easily shoot Cliff when Cliff bent down to possibly check for a pulse on Christine or to shoot Cliff when he collapsed in grief on seeing Christine lying there dead.

I'm guessing that was plan A, but Cliff arrived, and plan B went into action.

To me it seems the killer had to be an unsavory character to begin with. It's hard for me to imagine someone who had never killed anyone before being able to kill two babies as he did.

There had been 3 other murders that year in that area, and I wonder if all three of those murders were solved. I know one wasn't, the college boy who was hog-tied, and tortured.

You would think that Mauck, the meter reader, would've been high on their list for DNA testing. If deceased, they could've tested any male relatives he had. Why not?

To answer one of your questions, perhaps the police department was only interested in testing the two they thought were the most likely perps. Perhaps all the others are either dead or would have to be chased down, and the expense of trying to get someone from out of state to give a DNA sample cost prohibitive for such an old case. Sadly, I guess it comes down to how much money the county or town can spare. : (

One more thing, perhaps they destroyed the remaining evidence in the process of doing the DNA testing. Yet another truth may be that the DNA was unreliable due to the age of the evidence? Just guessing. I'm certainly no expert on how long evidence can be maintained and still get solid results.

 

[MaryLiz]

A tip from the 1990s being investigated in the Walker case.

Florida sheriff's office seeks Poconos' help in old murder case


The Sarasota County Sheriff's Office in Florida is reaching out to the Monroe County community to help solve the 51-year-old horrific murders of a Florida couple and their two young children.
Someone who contacted the Sheriff's Office in 1994, claiming to be a Stroudsburg bartender possibly with information about the murders, may hold the key.

More at link.

http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110319/NEWS/103190319/-1/NEWS01

 

[MaryLiz]

Here's another similar article from The Morning Call of Allentown, PA. In this article though, it says that the DNA testing done in 2005 that we have been wondering about, has not yielded any matches yet.


http://articles.mcall.com/2011-03-1...110318_1_stroudsburg-area-bartender-cold-case

 

[KariKae]

The Walker Murders - Suspects

Curtis McCall
Reason Suspected: Curtis, who was 21 at the time of the murders, had been one of Christine's high school boyfriends. Alleged to have carried on a relationship with her up to the time of murders. Curtis, described by investigators as a "no-good trouble-making sort of person," owned a .22-caliber pistol. Reportedly became a man on the edge after the murders, often nervous and growing thinner, apparently unable to eat. Curtis had a history of violence. Before he was fired from his job as a Florida Highway Patrol dispatcher for neglect of duty, Curtis attacked a man who had been pulled over by an FHP trooper and attacked the arrested subject with his fists and became so violent that the trooper had to slap McCall to bring him to his senses. McCall said that he didn't even remember hitting the arrested subject.

Result: Sheriff Boyer and Deputy Wade Coker interviewed McCall at the Sumter County courthouse in Americus, Ga., where he was working as a construction foreman in the early 1960s. McCall told Boyer he never dated Christine. He said he did see her a few weeks before the murder, but she was with Cliff and they had come to ask him about a horse. He said he owned a nine-shot .22-caliber gun at one time, but sold it to someone he couldn't remember. Coker hooked McCall to a polygraph machine. The results showed McCall was nervous. But after two more tests, the only response that gave Coker pause came when he asked: "Have you withheld any information from the law enforcement officers about the Walker murder?" The machine indicated that he had.
Today, McCall's whereabouts are unknown.
.

This guy seems to fit what we are talking about. He distanced himself by saying he never dated Christine. He would have a motive to take the uniform. He one part of the LDT showed him to be evasive. I would LOVE to know if he had been cleared through DNA.

 

[belimom]

This guy seems to fit what we are talking about. He distanced himself by saying he never dated Christine. He would have a motive to take the uniform. He one part of the LDT showed him to be evasive. I would LOVE to know if he had been cleared through DNA.

I'm with you. I think this is the guy... I'm puzzled by the cousin and his behavior, but the marriage certificate and uniform really say alot, I think.

 

[Reality Orlando]

Were these guys ever ruled out?

Butch Dennison

Reason Suspected: A woman told a sheriff's deputy that Dennison, who lived near where someone hid bloody clothes that belonged to the murdered family, talked about killing the Walkers. Butch's father covered for him by burying his son's cowboy boots, which had the Walkers' blood on them, she claimed.

Result: The elder Dennison passed a polygraph exam, but there is no indication that Butch was ever questioned.

Mosby Henry Fulton

Reason Suspected: Arrested several times for rape and fondling young girls, sheriff's files state. A friend said Fulton "has no principle at all when it comes to women or girls" and that he raped a woman while her wheelchair-bound husband watched.

Result: Boyer reviewed Fulton's arrest record.

I wonder what bloodied clothes they found?

 

[belimom]

...snipped...

I wonder what bloodied clothes they found?

I believe one of the earlier links said that it was bloody clothes that belonged to the family and that the killer probably used to mop himself off and clean up a little.

ETA: It was in a link in the first post...

A few months after the murder, three women found bloody clothes in a shed a mile or two from the Walker home. The clothes -- two shirts, a skirt, a blouse, pants and a handkerchief -- belonged to Cliff and Christine Walker and the killer may have used them to mop himself up.

The placement of the clothes deepened suspicions that someone familiar with the area surrounding the Walkers' home had killed them, then snuck away to hide the evidence.

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?p=4&tc=pg&AID=/20051219/NEWS/512190338&Page=5

 

[kline]

I'm with you. I think this is the guy... I'm puzzled by the cousin and his behavior, but the marriage certificate and uniform really say alot, I think.

Absolutely,I think the theft of the certificate and the majorette outfit speak VOLUMES about the killer and his motivation and should have narrowed the field of suspects considerably to my way of thinking.
I must have missed the story about the College Student who was bound and tortured...could someone point me to a link?

 

[Kimster]

:rose: The Walker family is our featured cold case from April 3-April 10, 2011. :rose:

May they finally have justice!

 

[Lera213]

It is obvious to me that the killer did know this family and I think like LE does that had a fixation on Christine, he went in to do his deed but the husband and kids came home and he knew that he was caught. He in his mind had to kill them all.

My first gut feeling is that young 23 year old that owned a 22 caliber gun but sold it and doesn't remember to whom. He after reading all the suspects is the one I would focus on.

 

[Richard]

The bloody cowboy boot:

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?p=6&tc=pg&AID=/20051219/NEWS/512190338&Page=5

I have always thought that the murderers of the Clutter family, Perry Smith and Dick Hickock, being in the vicinity of the Walker Murder would have to rank as being one of the BIGGEST coincidences in the history of crime.

While there are a lot of good theories and scenarios on who could have murdered the Walkers and why they were murdered, I have always wondered why Perry and Dick were dismissed so quickly as potential suspects.

These two characters murdered the Clutter family in Nebraska only a short time before, and then they show up in this other area so far from Nebraska where the Walker family is brutally and ruthlessly murdered. Of course they say they didn't do it. But couldn't they be lying - just a little bit?

Others with personal or family connections to the Walkers might have had a more reasonable "motive" for killing them, if you look at crime statistics, or usual murder motives. But Perry and Dick did not really need any motive. They killed the Clutters for essentially no reasons whatever. They state that robbery was their reason for being at the Clutter farm, but that does not rationally lead to the brutal killings which they committed.

In 1967, I saw the movie "In Cold Blood" based on Truman Capote's book by the same very appropriate title. (This was back in the day of movie theater showings, not VHS, DVD, or movie channels on TV.)

Something I remember to this day is that as the movie started, you see Perry Smith (played by actor and later real life murderer Robert Blake) sitting in the back of a bus with his feet propped up on the seat in front of him. At this point some jackass behind me says to his girlfriend, "That's the shoe they trace him with."

It sort of spoiled the plot at the outset. But I wonder if the bloody foot print found at the site of the Walker murder might prove to be the clue which eventually solves this case?

 

[Kat]

Does anyone know of any well researched books about this case? I'd like to read up on it TIA for suggestions!

To Richard:

As an aside and not directly commenting on your thoughts above, In Cold Blood is one of my fav books but because it was written by Capote not because of the story. Early and mid career Capote is my fav--I didn't care for his later work when he had became bitter and lashed out at others through his writings. Just me and my quirky reading habits

I view it as a novel inspired by a true crime.


Back on topic:
I'd really like to be able to read something on family or more than one book so that I could ponder and think about what really happened.

 

[Robin Hood]

I think it's Curtis McCall who confessed to the bar person in 1994. He just has to be found for the DNA test, either that or test any relatives.
I know nothing about guns so I shall ask, the gun they think was involved a .22, how many shots would it hold ? I wonder if the girl Debbie was drowned because it was the last bullet and she was still alive.
I also wonder if Christine was alive when Cliff came home and she was dragged towards the front door as a shield. It seems locals knew Cliff had always got a loaded gun in his car and if he were to open the front door with it in his hand the attacker could well have been caught and maybe shot.
Scenario..Christine attacked,Cliffs truck pulls up, Christine dragged to hall, Cliff enters without gun, attacker is reconised and therefore all are shot.
I remember lots of stuff from when I was a baby and surprised family members when I shouted my father by his first name when I was 9 months old. IMO that's why the children were killed.

 

[Adrian Harbinger]

I think it's Curtis McCall who confessed to the bar person in 1994. He just has to be found for the DNA test, either that or test any relatives.
I know nothing about guns so I shall ask, the gun they think was involved a .22, how many shots would it hold ? I wonder if the girl Debbie was drowned because it was the last bullet and she was still alive.
I also wonder if Christine was alive when Cliff came home and she was dragged towards the front door as a shield. It seems locals knew Cliff had always got a loaded gun in his car and if he were to open the front door with it in his hand the attacker could well have been caught and maybe shot.
Scenario..Christine attacked,Cliffs truck pulls up, Christine dragged to hall, Cliff enters without gun, attacker is reconised and therefore all are shot.
I remember lots of stuff from when I was a baby and surprised family members when I shouted my father by his first name when I was 9 months old. IMO that's why the children were killed.

I agree. Assuming they still have the bloody clothes that were found in that shed or other fluids from the scene, DNA could clear this up unless the killer is already six feet under.

 

[kline]

I have always thought that the murderers of the Clutter family, Perry Smith and Dick Hickock, being in the vicinity of the Walker Murder would have to rank as being one of the BIGGEST coincidences in the history of crime.

While there are a lot of good theories and scenarios on who could have murdered the Walkers and why they were murdered, I have always wondered why Perry and Dick were dismissed so quickly as potential suspects.

These two characters murdered the Clutter family in Nebraska only a short time before, and then they show up in this other area so far from Nebraska where the Walker family is brutally and ruthlessly murdered. Of course they say they didn't do it. But couldn't they be lying - just a little bit?

Others with personal or family connections to the Walkers might have had a more reasonable "motive" for killing them, if you look at crime statistics, or usual murder motives. But Perry and Dick did not really need any motive. They killed the Clutters for essentially no reasons whatever. They state that robbery was their reason for being at the Clutter farm, but that does not rationally lead to the brutal killings which they committed.

In 1967, I saw the movie "In Cold Blood" based on Truman Capote's book by the same very appropriate title. (This was back in the day of movie theater showings, not VHS, DVD, or movie channels on TV.)

Something I remember to this day is that as the movie started, you see Perry Smith (played by actor and later real life murderer Robert Blake) sitting in the back of a bus with his feet propped up on the seat in front of him. At this point some jackass behind me says to his girlfriend, "That's the shoe they trace him with."

It sort of spoiled the plot at the outset. But I wonder if the bloody foot print found at the site of the Walker murder might prove to be the clue which eventually solves this case?

It was kind of a unique set of circumstances that precipitated the Clutter murders sort of a 'perfect storm.
Robbery was obstensibly the motive though Hickock later confessed that his desire to rape Nancy Clutter was a big motivation (Perry Smith who had a real problem with rapists and child molestors stopped him from consumating that attack.)
Smith and Hickock werent actually on a thrill killing rampage like say Charlie Starkweather though after the Clutter murders.
They did almost kill a travelling saleman in order to rob him and steal his car but that was more of a means to an end as they were flat broke and on foot.
I still think the theft of Mr.s Walkers majorette costume and marrige certificate speaks to a very personal focus and obsession with her .
Judging by the few photos ive seen of her she was uncommonly attractive especially for rural florida back in the 1950's she probably was the focus of a lot of unhealthy attention from men.But I would be willing to bet her killer was in high school with her either in the same class or a grade or two below.
I do agree Perry Smith and Richard Hickock, even though they covered practiclly the whole country in there travels during their month and a half of wandering being in the immediate vicinity on that day is one of the most bizzare coincidences of all time.

 

[MaryLiz]

I have to agree that Curtis McCall is the most likely suspect in this case. It was, as Richard said, the biggest coincidence in the history of crime that Perry Smith and Dick Hickock were in that area at the time of the murders. I also think the motive in the Clutter case was strictly robbery, and that the Walker crime just doesn't fit Smith and Hickock's MO.

I really wish they could track McCall down so they could get his DNA. Everything just points to a "personal" crime in this case and IMO, McCall is most likely guilty.

 

[Nikki_2]

Interesting case, I would have thought that it would have been solved by now with DNA. Just a few of my own thoughts in no particular order

I don't believe it was Curtis, even though he seems obvious, because he was wild and had a temper does not mean he was a killer, he dated Christine in High school, still does not make him a murderer. In those days, I believe that people gave alot of information which was based purely on venting their own dislike of a person, in turn this would have only mislead, and wasted valuable time in finding the possible killer/s.

Police suspected Hancock & Smith at one stage, this would mean that they were never certain themselves how many people might have been involved in the murders ? I too, do not believe that these 2 killed the Walker family as they were focused on robbing a family whom they thought were wealthy, unlike the Walker family.

In re to Christine's uniform, could she have not for some reason moved it or given it somewhere, afterall who of us announce to our family or friends anytime that we move certain items in our home.

 

[Nikki_2]

( 1/2 of my post in previous was lost )

Marriage certificate, could it have been possible for someone to have taken it to use as their own in another state ? eg: someone who wished to start a new life with a new identity, could this have been possible then anywhere ? very curious with this if someone could perhaps elaborate on this

Could there have been 2 killers, one a woman ? In a state where guns/rifles are almost in every household, and I guess people would have used them with ease, the killer in this case did not come across as a person who had experience with guns ( I am not familiar with them either ) I write this as too many shots seemed to be fired and that at fairly close range, maybe little experience with weapons and panic combined..

I don't believe that the killer/s was trying to position Christine's body so that the husband could find it ( as mentioned here ) I think that they were trying to move the body outside, to remove it perhaps from the home and that is when her husband and son arrived.

The clothing used to wipe the blood was an odd choice, shirts, blouse, pants, handkerchief, this for the oddest reason is the first thing I think of when thinking of this case. Why were these taken to be hidden when they must have been aware there were prints,etc left in places. Why would they risk getting caught carrying bloodied clothes, this makes sense in my mind what I am thinking, expressing it is another matter.

In regards to the rape, was it proven that she was raped, was it ruled out for certain that she had not had consensual sex before being murdered ?

Finally, the letter that was mentioned that Christine wrote to someone, this was not mentioned to whom or why, what relevance did this letter have ?

Could be wrong but I don't believe it was one killer, it seems strange that a man would fill the tub with a small amount of water to drown a child when he had a weapon and shot her anyway. Sorry for the post being all over the place, writing as I am thinking about the possible motives