GUILTY FL - Dan Markel, 41, FSU law professor, Tallahassee, 18 July 2014 - #2 *Arrests*

[wildebeest]

So true! The Justice for Dan page was such BS... The rabbis were a total red herring and those close to the A family were desperate to make that narrative fit. Hopefully they are finally facing reality and admitting that the people they knew and cared about were not who they thought they were...

Suggesting the rabbis had something to do with Dan's murder, in my opinion, was a bizarre attempt to divert suspicion from the real perps. It just didn't make sense. And, as Judge Judy always reminds us, "If it doesn't make sense, it must not be true."

IMHO

 

[wildebeest]

Because it's never just all about the money.

Yes, it's probably more about power...

IMHO

 

[Cutie]

Suggesting the rabbis had something to do with Dan's murder, in my opinion, was a bizarre attempt to divert suspicion from the real perps. It just didn't make sense. And, as Judge Judy always reminds us, "If it doesn't make sense, it must not be true."

IMHO

Throwing out information about the rabbis makes perfect sense if LE knew what really happened and wanted the suspects to contact each other and do stupid things that could be used against them (while they were under surveillance and/or wiretapped). Often times, LE purposely floats red herrings to make suspects think that they are in the clear while they gather evidence against them. Perhaps Justice for Dan was floating those theories at the request of LE. Who knows.

Also, I am disturbed by all of the Justice for Dan bashing. From what I know, the group is managed by a neutral person like me -- someone who knew Dan, a fellow lawyer. That person is/was not "close to the A family" at all.

Finally, I agree with the previous poster (sorry I forget who, but it was a detailed and thoughtful post) that Dan's cautious lawyer friends are probably treading carefully and keeping their concerns about the A family quiet for now.

 

[Electric Sheep]

True. Wouldn't be at all surprised if they were hitting the ski slopes all the way through both tally trips. In fact it would explain some things. And agreed, those who hired them are truly unbelievably dumb.

Also wouldn't be surprised if CA was abusing his prescription power as a dentist and was hooked on something. How on earth did he meet KM? Not on the golf course...

I have my own suspicions about what KM 'worked' at, and what her 'intimate' relationship with CA involved.

 

[86Violet]

Throwing out information about the rabbis makes perfect sense if LE knew what really happened and wanted the suspects to contact each other and do stupid things that could be used against them (while they were under surveillance and/or wiretapped). Often times, LE purposely floats red herrings to make suspects think that they are in the clear while they gather evidence against them. Perhaps Justice for Dan was floating those theories at the request of LE. Who knows.

Also, I am disturbed by all of the Justice for Dan bashing. From what I know, the group is managed by a neutral person like me -- someone who knew Dan, a fellow lawyer. That person is/was not "close to the A family" at all.

Finally, I agree with the previous poster (sorry I forget who, but it was a detailed and thoughtful post) that Dan's cautious lawyer friends are probably treading carefully and keeping their concerns about the A family quiet for now.

I apologize if it appeared that I was bashing the members of the group. I wasn't - I'm one and so are many of my friends and colleagues. I just personally felt annoyance at the administrator of the group (a neutral friend of Dan's from what I gathered) for speculating and implicating so heavily upon the rabbis, but not tolerating the possibility that the family would have been involved. I understand he wouldn't want to put this on social media - but why pin it on the rabbis then? I don't believe for a moment he was asked to cast red herrings for law enforcement. Even after Garcia was arrested and the news reported the connection to the family, he made a post about how WA should tell her children someday that Uncle Charlie made a very bad decision...Mommy and Daddy were fighting but it had nothing to do with you. Huh?? Even though he is neutral, he posts his opinions on the case and I find them unrealistic to the point of bewilderment.

But yes, most are keeping their theories quiet (at least in public) and I respect that as the prudent thing to do considering none of them have been named as suspects at this point.

 

[Daun1234]

Here are some additional documents. These are the three most aggressive and colorful documents, all from 2014.
Former Husband's Countermotion for Enforcement of MSA, 3/26/2014
Former Husband's Response, 4/11/2014.
Memorandum of Authorities, 5/5/2014 (Posted previously).

Also,
Motion to Leave to Withdraw as Counsel for Former Wife, 5/7/2014.

 

[Daun1234]

Throwing out information about the rabbis makes perfect sense if LE knew what really happened and wanted the suspects to contact each other and do stupid things that could be used against them (while they were under surveillance and/or wiretapped). Often times, LE purposely floats red herrings to make suspects think that they are in the clear while they gather evidence against them. Perhaps Justice for Dan was floating those theories at the request of LE. Who knows.

If this is true, it would entirely change my opinion. Having said that I really doubt this is correct. It looks like the more typical narcissism of Facebook kind of thing. And all of it would be normal if it was on a personal Facebook page. To be fair anyone can set up a group on Facebook, so why anyone took it seriously (including me), I don't know- but people definitely did. But I don't mean to beat up on bereaved and confused friends of Daniel and WA. This is an awful situation and we should give some grace to all concerned.

I do think LE used some clever strategy in this investigation. I don't think it's a good idea to discuss it until there are more arrests, but I think they outsmarted the perps in multiple and pretty clever ways. I think this is pretty ironic because you notice that Danny was not killed in NYC- which could have been done- probably because the co-conspirators thought TPD wasn't capable of solving this crime.

Seems like they might have been wrong about that.

 

[86Violet]

Thanks for posting those docs, Daun1234! The Counter-Motion to Enforce the MSA is what I have been talking about...that's where it goes down, for me.

But I don't mean to beat up on bereaved and confused friends of Daniel and WA. This is an awful situation and we should give some grace to all concerned. .

Great point. I certainly mean to give grace to all concerned, even if I don't show it very well sometimes.

 

[BSBC]

Here are some additional documents. These are the three most aggressive and colorful documents, all from 2014.
Former Husband's Countermotion for Enforcement of MSA, 3/26/2014
Former Husband's Response, 4/11/2014.
Memorandum of Authorities, 5/5/2014 (Posted previously).

Also,
Motion to Leave to Withdraw as Counsel for Former Wife, 5/7/2014.

There's a pretty significant quote on page 10 of DM's 3/26/14 motion that was referenced in a subhed of the 6/14/16 Democrat article (http://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/2016/06/04/markel-adelson-sparred-up-end/85381422/), but not actually mentioned in the text. Per DM's motion, their younger son told DM, "Grandma says she hates you." This statement by the son was apparently said in front of WA. Certainly powerful evidence of motive on the part of DA. But also hard to see how it could be used as evidence in a potential trial. Who could/would testify to that statement in court? I assume WA and DA would deny it were they ever to testify (which is unlikely in any event). And the son may be too young to testify.

 

[Daun1234]

There's a pretty significant quote on page 10 of DM's 3/26/14 motion that was referenced in a subhed of the 6/14/16 Democrat article (http://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/2016/06/04/markel-adelson-sparred-up-end/85381422/), but not actually mentioned in the text. Per DM's motion, their younger son told DM, "Grandma says she hates you." This statement by the son was apparently said in front of WA. Certainly powerful evidence of motive on the part of DA. But also hard to see how it could be used as evidence in a potential trial. Who could/would testify to that statement in court? I assume WA and DA would deny it were they ever to testify (which is unlikely in any event). And the son may be too young to testify.

Certainly a judge isn't going to ban DA from seeing the kids alone just because Markel filed these documents, right? I see a lot of aggressive bluster but was WA really going to get slammed when they finally went to to court- or just mildly reprimanded? I'm not an expert, but I don't see anything in these documents that couldn't seemingly be fixed with negotiation and good behavior in the future.
I have no experience with divorce or litigation. But couldn't they have just sat down with a mediator and worked this all out? I just can't wrap my mind around why it had to come to all of this.
It seems so unnecessary.

 

[BSBC]

I don't know anything about divorce or litigation. But couldn't they have just sat down with a mediator and worked this all out? I just can't wrap my mind around why it had to come to all of this. It seems so unnecessary.

Sure, they could have. Indeed they reached a settlement agreement that was intended to resolve all their financial and parenting issues (I don't know whether that was done with the assistance of a mediator). But then they accused each other of breaching the agreement. Parties in litigation -- especially highly personal litigation like divorce proceedings -- do not necessarily behave in the most rational way, often to their own detriment. I think the briefs demonstrate that both parties were motivated, at least in part, by emotional, non-rational, considerations.

 

[notwhatitseems]

Agreed. Having seen many divorce pleadings, including some involving international custody disputes and more than ten times the financial assets of this one, this divorce seems plain vanilla in terms of the disputes and legal issues between Dan and WA -- disagreements like these about grandparents and communications are commonplace, as are disagreements over assets or a party agreeing to a settlement and later wanting to revisit it or not pay. The dispute over dollar amounts here also seem small, and Dan got a great deal on child support given his salary was more than twice his wife's; it's hard to imagine why this would justify tens of thousands in litigation expenses. I'd add too that the invective expressed in these pleadings is way over the top, and the pleadings are way over argued -- both parties seemed to be making a mockery of the legal system in this divorce. I would hate to have been one of the many lawyer or judges involved. This is a great example of how litigation brings out the worse in people, especially when lawyers are personally involved!

Certainly a judge isn't going to ban DA from seeing the kids alone just because Markel filed these documents, right? I see a lot of aggressive bluster but was WA really going to get slammed when they finally went to to court- or just mildly reprimanded? I'm not an expert, but I don't see anything in these documents that couldn't seemingly be fixed with negotiation and good behavior in the future.
I have no experience with divorce or litigation. But couldn't they have just sat down with a mediator and worked this all out? I just can't wrap my mind around why it had to come to all of this.
It seems so unnecessary.

 

[dotr]

Wondering if and how, some of these details about gang members might relate to this case.
imo, speculation.
Rbbm.
http://www.segag.org/ganginfo/frlkings.html

The Latin Kings are known to beat, stab, or shoot members who have not conformed to the gang's rules of obedience, resulting in serious physical injury up to and including death.

The violence exhibited by the Latin Kings is not restricted solely to members who do not conform to the gang's rules and orders. Individuals and rival gangs who possess a threat to the Latin Kings have also been targeted for violence.

Finances: The main source of income for the Latin Kings is funds derived from the lucrative drug trade. Though members are not to use drugs, they may sell and distribute drugs to derive funds for themselves and the organization.

Other means of deriving funds are membership dues for the Latin King members and extortion from weaker, vulnerable individuals both in the community and inside our correctional facilities.

Recently we have seen this group developing legitiment business enterprises as fronts to their criminal activities; this will include, Medical Offices, Law Offices, mom and pop type stores, Social services, and political organizations, Etc..

Of all the gangs, members of the Latin Kings are the hardest to gain information from, They won't even admit their membership in many cases.

 

[Razz]

IMO DA has already lost the boys. Not through litigation or jail (yet) but because she said unfair and hateful things to the boys about their father. They will (if they don't already,) sense there is something not ticking right with Granny.

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[BSBC]

The transcript of the 6/29/16 Nancy Grace episode that discussed this case is now available here: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1606/29/ng.01.html

I can't figure out what Garcia's attorney's position is regarding whether Garcia was actually in Tallahassee with Rivera those days surrounding the murder. At one point the attorney, Jim Lewis, suggests Garcia was not in Tallahassee: "Well, he`s not [in Tallahassee]. Nobody puts him in Tallahassee. [T]hey [the cops] put him [Garcia] [in] that car when he`s back here in Broward County at Pembroke Pines and a bank video with a friend that he knows as Luis Rivera. That`s where he`s in the car. He`s [Garcia] not in the car with him [Rivera] in Tallahassee ..." (emphasis added).

But later in the interview, Lewis seems to admit that Garcia was in Tallahassee -- not for the murder, but for some other (non-"legitimate"!) reasons: "There were reasons, and I`m not going to say that they are legitimate reasons for them being in Tallahassee, but they had nothing to do with this murder."

Also, I love Lewis' suggestion that "here in South Florida" "everybody" -- including Garcia -- uses "multiple cell phones." Seriously???

Not the most convincing defense of his client, to say the least.

 

[miamiheat]

The transcript of the 6/29/16 Nancy Grace episode that discussed this case is now available here: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1606/29/ng.01.html

I can't figure out what Garcia's attorney's position is regarding whether Garcia was actually in Tallahassee with Rivera those days surrounding the murder.

Maybe Lewis was confused and meant to indicate that no one could place Garcia in Tallahassee for the June trip, but that Garcia was in Tallahassee in July and had (possibly not legitimate) reasons for being in Tallahassee during the July trip. If I recall correctly the PCA didn't specifically place Garcia in Tallahassee in June but they placed him there in July.

ETA: actually I think the *cell phone activity* didn't appear to place Garcia in Tallahassee in June, or at least the PCA didn't indicate as much, but LE claimed in the PCA to have learned somehow that he was in Tallahassee in June.

 

[BSBC]

Maybe Lewis was confused and meant to indicate that no one could place Garcia in Tallahassee for the June trip, but that Garcia was in Tallahassee in July and had (possibly not legitimate) reasons for being in Tallahassee during the July trip. If I recall correctly the PCA didn't specifically place Garcia in Tallahassee in June but they placed him there in July.

The cops do claim that Garcia was on the June trip as well, as indicated in this document (attachment B): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzpdGAYOo909dldQNEFHQzJVbFU/view

The document says that LE does not have phone records for Garcia for that period. (See page 19 of the document.) However, it says, "Rivera and Garcia had resided at the Budget Inn motel...while in Tallahassee" in June. (Page 23.) And "Garcia and Rivera had rented a vehicle" for the June trip. (Page 24.) Seems LE must have some other way of knowing that Garcia was in Tallahassee in June, aside from phone records. Witness(es)?

Also, Lewis' denial that Garcia was in Tallahassee seems pretty clearly to refer to the July trip (i.e., when the murder took place). He seems to be suggesting that Garcia was only in the car for the very end of the trip, at the ATM near Miami (where the photo clearly shows both Garcia and Rivera in the car), but not for the earlier part of the trip to Tallahassee itself.

 

[Daun1234]

As of July, 2015, it was publicly announced that the Miami office of the FBI was involved in this investigation. This was revealed both through the press release and in televised reports on the 1-year anniversary of the murder. Despite the Internet debate regarding whether the car had a Sunpass or EZPass, the FBI obviously believed the Prius was from Miami.

The Jacksonville office of the FBI usually works with TPD on crimes in Leon County. The focus on MIami was a clear sign to many in Tallahassee that investigators were focusing on the A Family as of Summer 2015. To be fair, it would have been easy to miss this point, but for those who were paying attention, recent events have not been all that shocking.

Wiretaps have been mentioned. But how does the FBI or TPD get them on tape saying anything incriminating when the media has publicly announced that the Miami FBI is involved, and Miami FBI is issuing press releases regarding the Prius? This would seem to be an obvious sign that they were closing in.
Even an amateur sleuth would assume Miami-based wiretaps at that point - right?
Bottom line: While there may have been some mis-direction and clever tricks, LE literally announced they were focusing on Miami, a year ago.

 

[Razz]

Maybe LE did know who used the car but said things in the news to get people calling each other and talking. It has been done before.

Well Colette, it appears you were correct. The TPD must have advertised not knowing anything about the green Prius because of what was going on in Miami?! They were trying to throw people off? But why show that in Tallahassee and no where else. I didn't hear a thing about Miami and the FBI. I'm not sure WS knew about it either. But maybe they figured people in Tallehassee would be talking to people in Miami.

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[Razz]

As of July, 2015, it was public knowledge that the Miami office of the FBI was involved in this investigation. This was revealed both through the press release and in televised reports on the 1-year anniversary of the murder. Despite the Internet debate regarding whether the car had a Sunpass or EZPass, the FBI obviously believed the Prius was from Miami.

The Jacksonville office of the FBI is the usual office that works with TPD on crimes in Leon County. The focus on MIami was a clear sign to many in Tallahassee that investigators were focusing on the A Family as of Summer 2015. To be fair, it would have been easy to miss this point, but those who were paying attention have not been surprised by recent events.

Wiretaps have been mentioned. But how does the FBI or TPD get them on tape saying anything incriminating when the whole world knows that Miami FBI is involved, and they are issuing press releases regarding the Prius?
Even an amateur sleuth would assume Miami-based wiretaps at that point - right?
Bottom line: While there may have been some mis-direction and clever tricks, LE literally announced they were focusing on Miami, a year ago.

So. The TPD must have been advertising about not having any info re the Prius in July of '15 to throw everyone off. They must have been hoping people in Tallahassee would contact those in Miami to tell them that the Tallahassee PD was clueless. I certainly thought so. I'll be.

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