GUILTY FL - Dan Markel, 41, FSU Law Professor, Tallahassee, 18 July 2014 - #9 *arrests*

[Marvin Berry]

I'm quoting William Meggs. State Attorney from 1985-2016. He must know what he is talking about in reference to a case being there or not. IMO.

You're quoting a politician who was addressing a public outcry. CA suing for wrongful arrest is simply unrealistic for the reasons I previously stated. Meggs didn't bring charges bc he knew he didn't have the evidence (or possibly the talent) to win at trial. But he certainly had probable cause to arrest CA. As does the current State Attorney.

 

[justice1960]

I've already argued this and I know it frustrates people to hear this but I'm pretty sure that the Adelsons are going to get away with this unless KM comes forward or the Adelsons turn against each other.

Good job, Weki. That's where this case stands at this point... "unless"... and The Attorney General of the State of Florida interprets this case the same way at this point in time.

 

[Weki]

You're quoting a politician who was addressing a public outcry. CA suing for wrongful arrest is simply unrealistic for the reasons I previously stated. Meggs didn't bring charges bc he knew he didn't have the evidence (or possibly the talent) to win at trial. But he certainly had probable cause to arrest CA. As does the current State Attorney.

OK but no one on this board has yet to provide a reasonable explanation for why no one in the Adelson family has been indicted/charged yet. There has been a lot of wishful thinking from what I've read. Why hasn't the current State Attorney indicted CA yet? The only reasonable explanation is they don't think they have enough evidence to convict. The key word is: to convict. Presumably if you believe the previous State Attorney is a politician then you also believe the current one is also a politician and feels on some level compelled to address the public outcry. So why hasn't he? They're waiting for someone to flip. And that hasn't happened yet. Whether KM gets convicted or not, it won't make a bit of difference in a possible indictment of CA.

 

[justice1960]

You're quoting a politician who was addressing a public outcry. CA suing for wrongful arrest is simply unrealistic for the reasons I previously stated. Meggs didn't bring charges bc he knew he didn't have the evidence (or possibly the talent) to win at trial. But he certainly had probable cause to arrest CA. As does the current State Attorney.

Then he requests a speedy trial and walks in 3 months never to be tried again. Who knows what strategy the defense for CA will use for his trial. Probable cause doesn't mean a conviction... Even Tara Kawass, Attorney for KM mentioned the State didn't have probable cause to convict the Adelsons during her opening statement.

 

[justice1960]

OK but no one on this board has yet to provide a reasonable explanation for why no one in the Adelson family has been indicted/charged yet. There has been a lot of wishful thinking from what I've read. Why hasn't the current State Attorney indicted CA yet? The only reasonable explanation is they don't think they have enough evidence to convict. The key word is: to convict. Presumably if you believe the previous State Attorney is a politician then you also believe the current one is also a politician and feels on some level compelled to address the public outcry. So why hasn't he? They're waiting for someone to flip. And that hasn't happened yet. Whether KM gets convicted or not, it won't make a bit of difference in a possible indictment of CA.

There having a hard enough time attempting to convict KM with the evidence they have on her, along with one of the players pointing the finger at her. They do not have anything near that for CA right now. "When you don't know what to do...do nothing." and wait for more evidence to appear.

 

[Weki]

There having a hard enough time attempting to convict KM with the evidence they have on her, along with one of the players pointing the finger at her. They do not have anything near that for CA right now. "When you don't know what to do...do nothing." and wait for more evidence to appear.

BBM.

Exactly!!

 

[justice1960]

You're quoting a politician who was addressing a public outcry. CA suing for wrongful arrest is simply unrealistic for the reasons I previously stated. Meggs didn't bring charges bc he knew he didn't have the evidence (or possibly the talent) to win at trial. But he certainly had probable cause to arrest CA. As does the current State Attorney.

Siefreido Garcia=Guilty. Luis Rivera=Guilty. Katherine Magbanua= Next.

I'm sure WA/CA are hearing the footsteps coming. There's no hurry. Just the aura and threat must be grinding their consciences.

 

[clearskies1]

There having a hard enough time attempting to convict KM with the evidence they have on her, along with one of the players pointing the finger at her. They do not have anything near that for CA right now. "When you don't know what to do...do nothing." and wait for more evidence to appear.

Agree. The State will hopefully learn from their mistakes and really bring it April. A second trial is always harder on the defendant than the prosecution. The defense played their hand in the first trial and there's no excuse for the State to not be prepared for it now. JMO.

 

[Marvin Berry]

OK but no one on this board has yet to provide a reasonable explanation for why no one in the Adelson family has been indicted/charged yet. There has been a lot of wishful thinking from what I've read. Why hasn't the current State Attorney indicted CA yet? The only reasonable explanation is they don't think they have enough evidence to convict. The key word is: to convict. Presumably if you believe the previous State Attorney is a politician then you also believe the current one is also a politician and feels on some level compelled to address the public outcry. So why hasn't he? They're waiting for someone to flip. And that hasn't happened yet. Whether KM gets convicted or not, it won't make a bit of difference in a possible indictment of CA.

The reasonable explanation is that they don't want to arrest until they have enough evidence to convict at trial. But from a strategic POV, that may prove to be a huge error. KM's best defense is the fact that CA hasn't even been arrested. The best chance to get her to flip at this point is to convict her of murder.

 

[Wishbone]

I just heard part 3 of the juror's interview - how the heck did you all find that?? It has less than 30 views on YouTube. And it's some random guy/lawyer?

Anyway, this juror is exactly the kind of juror I figured would've caused a deadlock. She said she didn't believe anything Rivera said. She didn't believe anything Nobles said. And she believed everything KM said. Wow. She felt like GC was too locked in to her theory of the case - "prosecutorial desperation" - and that it turned her off. I can't even listen to anymore of this woman talking. She only looked at the evidence superficially. She doesn't have the critical thinking skills to be able to connect the dots. SMH. She needed "hard evidence" she said to believe anything Rivera said. She doesn't understand that circumstantial evidence and direct evidence carry the same weight. It's in the jury instructions. How TF can she believe everything KM said????? She said the main issue GC faced was the credibility of her witnesses. It sounds like this juror wholly discounted Rivera and Nobles because of their criminal history. It's obvious Nobles was a dealer but didn't want to admit that in open court and it sounds like she held that against him. It sounds like if she doesn't believe one thing a witness says, she's not going to believe anything else. Ugh. I haven't listened to the whole interview but did she say what the vote was?? I hope she's 1 of 2 because otherwise I'm not going to be hopeful in the retrial.

To say she believed everything KM said was her way to justify her NG vote to the other jurors. That is what she must have told them so they couldn't argue evidentiary points with her. As a juror she can decide who she thinks is a credible witness and who is not. She knew KM was lying but absolutely did not want to convict her even though she thought she was guilty(her words). How she explained to the other jurors that Rivera was a liar, yet she convicted SG on his testimony proves to me that she just flat out didn't want to convict KM, for all her own biased reasons.

 

[justice1960]

The reasonable explanation is that they don't want to arrest until they have enough evidence to convict at trial. But from a strategic POV, that may prove to be a huge error. KM's best defense is the fact that CA hasn't even been arrested. The best chance to get her to flip at this point is to convict her of murder.

or to get her to flip right now would be even better...minor convictions and released with time served and a chance to spend Christmas with her children this year.

 

[Marvin Berry]

Then he requests a speedy trial and walks in 3 months never to be tried again. Who knows what strategy the defense for CA will use for his trial. Probable cause doesn't mean a conviction... Even Tara Kawass, Attorney for KM mentioned the State didn't have probable cause to convict the Adelsons during her opening statement.

Probable cause and beyond a reasonable doubt are two very different thresholds. So the statement that Kawass mentioned "the State didn't have probable cause to convict the Adelsons" doesn't make any sense. There is a multiple page probable cause affidavit issued for CA. People are arrested all the time on WAY less.

As for speedy trial, it's 175 days for felony in Florida; not 90. Not saying it's not possible, but CA and his attorney would have to have HUGE cajones to rush to a jury. There's plenty of evidence and he may not be as sympathetic a defendant as KM.

 

[Marvin Berry]

or to get her to flip right now would be even better...minor convictions and released with time served and a chance to spend Christmas with her children this year.

Is it more likely that she flips now (1) having the defense that CA hasn't been arrested, or (2) not having the defense that CA hasn't been arrested?

 

[clearskies1]

To say she believed everything KM said was her way to justify her NG vote to the other jurors. That is what she must have told them so they couldn't argue evidentiary points with her. As a juror she can decide who she thinks is a credible witness and who is not. She knew KM was lying but absolutely did not want to convict her even though she thought she was guilty(her words). How she explained to the other jurors that Rivera was a liar, yet she convicted SG on his testimony proves to me that she just flat out didn't want to convict KM, for all her own biased reasons.

Yes, plus apparently KM admitted on the stand numerous lies/frauds in terms of taxes and medicaid. And she was believable but Rivera was not??? JMO.

 

[GordonX]

IMO - KM is NEVER going to flip with DeCoste and Kawass advising her. NEVER. They have their marching orders.

 

[Wishbone]

or to get her to flip right now would be even better...minor convictions and released with time served and a chance to spend Christmas with her children this year.

I don't see how KM could be believed if she were to "flip". Especially if she gets a sweet deal from the State for doing so. Her previous testimony will come back to haunt her and the defense attorneys would have a field day discrediting her. IMO she has outlived her usefulness.

 

[Weki]

I wish this juror hadn't spoken out because it's really pissing me off even more about the hung jury on KM. If the other two jurors had a similar reasoning, then it's truly depressing to me. I can live with a reasonable explanation but this ain't it! Give me a break! I wish the judge had told them to deliberate longer. IMO, they were let off easy.

eta: her whole manner of speaking and assessment just seemed so juvenile to me. It felt like she treated the whole experience like some gossip. Her fav character was KM. All of these players had credibility issues. But the conspiracy is clear as day. And it seems like she didn't look at the big picture. She focused on nit-picky things like why didn't GC bring someone from Instagram to confirm the owl posting? Are you kidding me??

 

[GordonX]

There are multiple paths to convict the alleged masterminds -
1. Dominoes/One By One/Low Hanging Fruit Strategy
2. Collective Side by Side Strategy

I think I like #2 better at this point.

 

[clearskies1]

If the State convicts KM of 1st degree murder, there really is no incentive for her to flip, correct? Life w/o parole is mandatory in Fla so flipping won't help her... Am I wrong about that?

 

[Weki]

If the State convicts KM of 1st degree murder, there really is no incentive for her to flip, correct? Life w/o parole is mandatory in Fla so flipping won't help her... Am I wrong about that?

No you are not. Like I said, a lot of wishful thinking going on here. If KM is going to go through a retrial she's not planning to flip. If she gets convicted, she will not flip. She has ZERO incentive at that point.