FL - Dawn Brancheau, Female Trainer Killed at Shamu Stadium

[LovingTheChaos]

I know this is not the popular take on this but I have to say I LOVE Seaworld. I go to the one in San Antonio every chance I get. I've always wanted to go to the one in Orlando and may this summer.

This trainer also loved Seaworld and the animals she worked with. She knew the risks and worked there anyway because of the love she had for them. The trainers and the other park employees love the animals and care for them. They know them better than any of us ever will. So, if they thought the animals had proper care, who are we to say they don't.

As far as Seaworld only loving money, they are a company. Most companies are in it to make money. But, I believe Seaworld cares for these animals and their employees.

What about Disney? Are they wrong for having enclosed animals and Safari vans at Animal Kingdom? Animal Kingdom makes money.

Local zoos? They have animals, they make money.

Fish in an aquarium at your local seafood place. ???

JMO

Before this, I was a fan of Seaworld as well, I have been to Orlando Seaworld twice. What is different to me here is the animal. Orcas are highly intelligent, social creatures. Possibly on the same level as humans. Should we really be keeping them in small pools in central Florida? I think the question needs to be raised - Seaworld needs to take more than 24 hours before deciding what is right for this animal.
Making these amazing creatures perform like circus animals is not right.

Incidently, My family will be going to Disney during our visit, including Animal Kingdom. Actually, I think they have done a fine job of providing a natural environment for the animals, many of whom are endangered. None of the animals at Disney are on the same level as a Killer Whale. That is like comparing an Orca to a cow. Life is not black & white.

 

[Penelope]

I know this is not the popular take on this but I have to say I LOVE Seaworld. I go to the one in San Antonio every chance I get. I've always wanted to go to the one in Orlando and may this summer.

This trainer also loved Seaworld and the animals she worked with. She knew the risks and worked there anyway because of the love she had for them. The trainers and the other park employees love the animals and care for them. They know them better than any of us ever will. So, if they thought the animals had proper care, who are we to say they don't.

As far as Seaworld only loving money, they are a company. Most companies are in it to make money. But, I believe Seaworld cares for these animals and their employees.

What about Disney? Are they wrong for having enclosed animals and Safari vans at Animal Kingdom? Animal Kingdom makes money.

Local zoos? They have animals, they make money.

Fish in an aquarium at your local seafood place. ???

JMO

Due to advances in technology and research, scientists have begun to question existing beliefs about the intelligence and "consciousness" of different species. I have included a link to an article about this on page 3 of this thread-- posting #57.

Based on this latest research, scientists are beginning to consider that whale and dolphin brain power is "only matched by higher primates, including man." These studies have suggested that whales can suffer, experience emotions, and have a pretty sophisticated culture in the wild. They actually are more intelligent than dogs.

It is my belief that cetaceans are more than just dumb animals and that keeping them in the enclosures that they are in is like keeping a chimpanzee or an ape (or a human) in a small cage with someone who feeds them and teaches them to do tricks. What if whales do have some sort of consciousness? As humans, we have been taught to believe that we are superior and special -- what happens if we are wrong?

My late husband was Native American. Did you know that a few hundred years ago many people thought Native Americans were not human? There actually had to be a law passed in England so that people wouldn't just kill them the way they would a bear, goose or buffalo.

We all have a lot to learn about other forms of life on this planet. SeaWorld thinks that keeping Tilly in a cement enclosed tank of water is humane and proper care. Well, I for one don't believe it is. But it is to their benefit because they can make millions of dollars off of her and the other whales.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I just thought I would remind everyone of the good Seaworld does for our planet. Here are a few examples, there are thousands of stories on the web.

Ronald McDonald House Charities® of Southern California and Sea World® Adventure Parks Make a Splash This Summer for Children Throughout the Southland
Link:
http://www.rmhc-sc.org/news_room.php?a=detail&id=86


SeaWorld also financially assists charitable organizations such as Make-A-Wish Foundation, Junior Achievement, Rady Children’s Hospital, American Cancer Society, The San Diego Zoological Society and more.
Link: http://www.seaworld.com/SitePage.aspx?PageID=159

Want to protect penguins? Save seabirds? Rescue rhinos? The SeaWorld & Busch Gardens Conservation Fund is doing that and more, and you can help. Visit www.swbg-conservationfund.org to learn more.
Link: http://www.sonypictures.com/movies/surfsup/popup/sponsors/charities.html

Many green sea turtles have been adversely affected by the Arctic blast that has swept over most of the U.S. recently. Two dozen “cold-stunned” green sea turtles have been taken in by SeaWorld’s Rescue and Rehabilitation Center in Orlando, Florida, where they are treating the endangered turtles with heat lamps, blankets, and warm fluids.
Link: http://www.animalfactguide.com/blog/tag/endangered-species/

Despite being known as one of the world’s best sea animal themeparks, SeaWorld’s primary mission is conservation. To that end they’re always there to assist animals in need and Hurricane Katrina was no exception. Right now SeaWorld Orlando is housing 8 refugee sea lions from evacuated aquariums.
Link: http://thedisneyblog.com/2005/08/31/seaworld_takes_/
***being from Louisiana - I loved reading this one***

BREVARD COUNTY, Fla. (WOFL FOX 35) - Animal care specialists from SeaWorld Orlando rescued a one year old manatee from Sebastian Inlet Tuesday.
Link: http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/attractions/sea_world/011210-manatee-rescue

SAN DIEGO - Experts at SeaWorld San Diego have assisted more than 50 dehydrated and malnourished brown pelicans, some of which appeared to be sickened by polluted runoff from recent storms.
Link: http://www.sandiego6.com/news/local/story/SeaWorld-Rescue-Team/VBWAkz40uEKc80NUzhr3rg.cspx

 

[Muffet]

I know this is not the popular take on this but I have to say I LOVE Seaworld. I go to the one in San Antonio every chance I get. I've always wanted to go to the one in Orlando and may this summer.

This trainer also loved Seaworld and the animals she worked with. She knew the risks and worked there anyway because of the love she had for them. The trainers and the other park employees love the animals and care for them. They know them better than any of us ever will. So, if they thought the animals had proper care, who are we to say they don't.

As far as Seaworld only loving money, they are a company. Most companies are in it to make money. But, I believe Seaworld cares for these animals and their employees.

What about Disney? Are they wrong for having enclosed animals and Safari vans at Animal Kingdom? Animal Kingdom makes money.

Local zoos? They have animals, they make money.

Fish in an aquarium at your local seafood place. ???

JMO

It depends on the species, the animal, and the conditions. e.g., I go to our local zoo for school field trips and can enjoy some things, like the flamingos or farm animals, but others break my heart, like the gorillas and tiger.

A fish in a tank is not the same as a huge whale stuck in a little pool. It just isn't.

It's hard not to lose trust in the rationality of those giving specious examples of things we think it's ok to do (like keeping a dog on our bed, as in the example given earlier) to excuse things like this, that are so very different.

Some species are simply more fit to be domesticated or kept. You cannot justify penning up an orca whale because it's acceptable to keep a goldfish.

(FWIW, I wouldn't keep fish, and I prefer livestock to be free-range.)

ETA: Regarding how much a trainer loves the animals ... I agree, but love is not proof that they're doing what is objectively best for that animal.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I don't get the statements - That's like comparing an orca to a cow....or You cannot justify penning up an orca whale because it's acceptable to keep a goldfish.

Sorry, I just don't get it.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Before this, I was a fan of Seaworld as well, I have been to Orlando Seaworld twice. What is different to me here is the animal. Orcas are highly intelligent, social creatures. Possibly on the same level as humans. Should we really be keeping them in small pools in central Florida? I think the question needs to be raised - Seaworld needs to take more than 24 hours before deciding what is right for this animal.
Making these amazing creatures perform like circus animals is not right.

Incidently, My family will be going to Disney during our visit, including Animal Kingdom. Actually, I think they have done a fine job of providing a natural environment for the animals, many of whom are endangered. None of the animals at Disney are on the same level as a Killer Whale. That is like comparing an Orca to a cow. Life is not black & white.

BBM

So, since this trainer was killed, your opininon on how these animals are treated changed? I don't see how one has to do with another.
While you were there, being a fan of Seaworld, those orcas were swimming in those same tanks you are saying are so wrong now.
The trainer getting killed did not make those tanks shrink.

 

[Muffet]

FTR, I'm not for shutting down Seaworld or all zoos entirely. I just want them to resist keeping some species that suffer from being penned up.

The best reason to keep places like that in business, IMO, is to teach people the majesty and intelligence of the animals they see, so they'll be sensitized to their needs and want to protect them. Now that we have shows like "Planet Earth", these places are less important, though.

:twocents:

 

[Muffet]

I don't get the statements - That's like comparing an orca to a cow....or You cannot justify penning up an orca whale because it's acceptable to keep a goldfish.

Sorry, I just don't get it.

Do you think keeping a goldfish in a bowl is the same as keeping an orca in a tank?

Or that keeping a cat or dog in your home is the same as keeping a lion or ape in a pen at a zoo?

If you do, then we simply disagree.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

So, your love of animals only applies to some of them?
I love all animals but I think what Seaworld does is an important part of making people aware of their needs.

Do you think if Seaworld didn't have entertainment value, all those people would go there just to see the educational shows or learn about the importance of a clean Earth and how animals live?

My point is this...SeaWorld does a tremendous amount of educating the public. They also do a tremendous amount of research and recovery of injured animals.

They are a company, they make money...and they pour a ton of money back to the well being of animals. They have charities for our children and our military.

The fact is, we are having this conversation because a trainer who loved what she did died. To me, that is a seperate issue than the size of a tank.

 

[Muffet]

So, your love of animals only applies to some of them?
I love all animals but I think what Seaworld does is an important part of making people aware of their needs.

Do you think if Seaworld didn't have entertainment value, all those people would go there just to see the educational shows or learn about the importance of a clean Earth and how animals live?

My point is this...SeaWorld does a tremendous amount of educating the public. They also do a tremendous amount of research and recovery of injured animals.

They are a company, they make money...and they pour a ton of money back to the well being of animals. They have charities for our children and our military.

The fact is, we are having this conversation because a trainer who loved what she did died. To me, that is a seperate issue than the size of a tank.

To claim that our points suggest we must love whales more than we love our dogs or cats suggests a barrier I don't think we're going to be able to cross.
Probably best for us to agree to disagree. Peace.

 

[LovingTheChaos]

BBM

So, since this trainer was killed, your opininon on how these animals are treated changed? I don't see how one has to do with another.
While you were there, being a fan of Seaworld, those orcas were swimming in those same tanks you are saying are so wrong now.
The trainer getting killed did not make those tanks shrink.

Umm, people can change their minds when new information becomes available. I never paid attention before - to me, seeing the Orca's was not different than watching the seal show back then. You do understand that people can & do change their opinions, right?

My attention was focused because of the trainers death. My opinion changed because of the information I have been reading here & on other sites on the web.

 

[Bobbisangel]

I don't think Seaworld should be held accountable. This woman CHOSE this line of work and she CHOSE to work there. Seaworld didn't force her. She had to know the dangers of working with WILD animals. I feel bad for her and it's a very sad situation.

The only thing Seaworld is at fault for is keeping wild animals in captivity. But again, this woman chose her occupation. There is a danger there and the risks are obvious.

It's always bothered me to see wild animals performing. It goes so far against nature and it's ludicrous, IMO.

I wonder if SeaWorld has trainers sign some kind of paper saying that they won't be held responsible if anything happens when a person goes to work there?

 

[LinasK]

I haven't seen an official cause of death and we may never know the extent of her injuries. Did the whale hold her under until she died or did he crush her bones but you're right, what difference does it make?

My newspaper said the autopsy will take several weeks, but preliminary reports say both traumatic injuries and drowning.

 

[jon_burrows]

The life span of killer whales in captivity is significantly shorter than those in the wild. They pay a heavy price for our entertainment, not only in their quality of life but their longevity as well.

In the words of Jacques Cousteau:

"There is about as much educational benefit to be gained in studying dolphins in captivity as there would be studying mankind by only observing prisoners held in solitary confinement".



​

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

Free him.

And how do you expect him to survive in the wild???

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

The ideal would be for him to go free, aka Kieko .

And he died within a year fo being released, because he did not know how to survive out in the wild. He died a slow painful death, of starvation, and anquish, because he did not know how to feed himself, or provide for himeself. He was in pain for a year before he finally passed away. He suffered for an entire year before he passed away!

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I agree. You can't free him now. He would never survive.
He has the care he needs where he is.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

FTR, I'm not for shutting down Seaworld or all zoos entirely. I just want them to resist keeping some species that suffer from being penned up.

:twocents:

How do we know that they are suffuring?? We really don't know that. Unless we are able to read their minds we will never know if they feel they are suffuring.

How do we know taht these guys only know what they have? They don't know about the wide oceans, or the spacious oceans out there. They only know what they have been in for the majority of their lives. How do we know they are not happy, in what they know??

 

[Muffet]

How do we know that they are suffuring?? We really don't know that. Unless we are able to read their minds we will never know if they feel they are suffuring.

How do we know taht these guys only know what they have? They don't know about the wide oceans, or the spacious oceans out there. They only know what they have been in for the majority of their lives. How do we know they are not happy, in what they know??

There are behaviors animals display when they are stressed. I haven't been to SeaWorld since I was a child, but there are some animals (e.g., Tiger, apes, elephant) at our zoo that definitely display those behaviors.

 

[LovingTheChaos]

And he died within a year fo being released, because he did not know how to survive out in the wild. He died a slow painful death, of starvation, and anquish, because he did not know how to feed himself, or provide for himeself. He was in pain for a year before he finally passed away. He suffered for an entire year before he passed away!

He did not suffer for a year! He got sick, & died, & was cared for by marine biologist - more importantly, he was back in the sea (he was cared for & fed, he did not starve to death). There are places where they can send Tillikum to be cared for.

Keiki was also 26, which is about the life span of a male Orca in the wild.


FromWiki-
Keiko died from pneumonia in Taknes Bay, Norway while under the care of personnel from Jean-Michel Cousteau's Ocean Futures Society on December 12, 2003. He had become lethargic and had a loss of appetite. He had finally beached himself in the morning and died at 26 years of age. Following requests from fans of the orca and Free Willy, the Oregon Coast Aquarium held a memorial service for him on February 20, 2004. 700 people attended the service, during which Thomas Chatterton, a veterinary chaplain said, "Keiko was not one of our kind, but nonetheless was still one of us