FL FL - Daytona, WhtMale 2128UMFL, 11-21, near pond, denim jacket, May'72

[Alleykins]

Thanks for the info, Madamx
What gets me is the mistake in his age-let's say the parents did report the UID missing, but overlooked this victim because LE thought he was older, and then the UID report got lost or closed. I'm wondering if they revisited any older cases.
This also answers the question about the bike. They did investigate it. It's possible the boy stole it and then met foul play, or it could be a coincidence.

 

[madamx]

Yes Iam totally with you Alleykins... There could of totally been parents or even a group/foster home reporting this boy! But bit was dismissed your right....and who knows if they kept missing kids reports or just tossed them because they assumed they were runaways...
I don't think the bike there is a coincidence..that I really don't... It's just too strange that the bike that was stolen ends up in the same exact spot as the kid at the same time... It's too weird... It's not like that is the ONLY woods... There are sooooo many woods all over the place there.. The place is huge and goes on forever...and they are just going to end up together? .. Noooo...
But that still does not tell us who the kid is... Now the isotopes says he is from the area... Iam thinking he is prob closer from where the bike was stolen...or maybe visiting family or someone and stole the bike to go back home? And as you said met foul play along the way...
I wonder if when they opened the case again to get DNA they checked with the surrounding counties for younger missing kids...

I was thinking the kid stole it too...which if he did someone must of seen him at some point with the bike.. And if the kid stole it .., the kid must of been in the area or familiar with the area to know he could steal the bike... I would think no?

Oh and last I just read the newspaper article I copied and I forgot to copy that he was stabbed in the abdomen also.

Thanks for the info, Madamx
What gets me is the mistake in his age-let's say the parents did report the UID missing, but overlooked this victim because LE thought he was older, and then the UID report got lost or closed. I'm wondering if they revisited any older cases.
This also answers the question about the bike. They did investigate it. It's possible the boy stole it and then met foul play, or it could be a coincidence.

 

[Alleykins]

Yes Iam totally with you Alleykins... There could of totally been parents or even a group/foster home reporting this boy! But bit was dismissed your right....and who knows if they kept missing kids reports or just tossed them because they assumed they were runaways...
I don't think the bike there is a coincidence..that I really don't... It's just too strange that the bike that was stolen ends up in the same exact spot as the kid at the same time... It's too weird... It's not like that is the ONLY woods... There are sooooo many woods all over the place there.. The place is huge and goes on forever...and they are just going to end up together? .. Noooo...
But that still does not tell us who the kid is... Now the isotopes says he is from the area... Iam thinking he is prob closer from where the bike was stolen...or maybe visiting family or someone and stole the bike to go back home? And as you said met foul play along the way...
I wonder if when they opened the case again to get DNA they checked with the surrounding counties for younger missing kids...

I was thinking the kid stole it too...which if he did someone must of seen him at some point with the bike.. And if the kid stole it .., the kid must of been in the area or familiar with the area to know he could steal the bike... I would think no?
Oh and last I just read the newspaper article I copied and I forgot to copy that he was stabbed in the abdomen also.

If the victim was the one who stole the bike, investigators must know from where it was stolen, and under what circumstances (like from a store parking lot, someone's garage, a school yard), etc. and should have been able to canvas that neighborhood. However, since they thought he was an adult, I wonder how much effort they put into that.

 

[Dot#5t]

IMO, when I read about the shaved region, I immediately thought it was something he was forced to do - maybe he'd been taken when he was younger and was 'bare' then, and his that was his captor's preference.Then he was discarded when he got to old....horrible to think.

I had the same horrible thought too

 

[Dot#5t]

I am confused about the height differences reported for this John Doe. The Doe Network and NamUs list his height as 5'2", not 5'7"
1. Doe Network Despcription:
Physical Description
Estimated Age: 11-14 years old
Race: White
Gender: Male
Height: 5'2"
Weight: 120 lbs. (Measured)
Hair Color: Dark brown and wavy.
Eye Color: Unknown
Distinguishing Marks/Features: Shaved pubic region. He had a benign bone tumor in his right leg that is common in male children and asymptomatic. He also had a congenital condition where bones in his feet fused together but that also would have been asymptotic.
LINK: 2128UMFL
2. NamUS Profile
Estimated age Adult - Pre 20
Minimum age 11 years
Maximum age 14 years
Race White
Ethnicity
Sex Male
Weight (pounds) 120, Measured
Height (inches) 62, Estimated
LINK: The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

 

[Dot#5t]

I'm thinking Richard Griener. He's two inches off, but at that age, kids grow extremely fast. Only other problem it it looks as if he has no front teeth. I could be wrong. But it's worth a look.

Missing Person / NamUs #MP4562

View NamUs missing person case MP4562 for Richard William Griener missing from Pekin, Illinois. Date of last contact: Jan 17, 1972. NCMEC case number: 601592.

namus.nij.ojp.gov

I agree with you on Richard Grenier. I can't find confirmation of the date his NamUs/Doe picture was taken but it's possible that it was over a year old. Perhaps Richard's front teeth had grown in and he may have grown beyond the last known height measurement his parents could recall (possibly from last school physical appointment). It's entirely possible that a victim from another state could have been abducted and taken/trafficked to Florida. Was Richard submitted to Doe as a possible match?
M.O.O.......

 

[madamx]

I came across this on Facebook

PLEASE HELP! ����Here is a picture of three of my brothers, two are still missing - Garry Roy Nelson the second oldest and Barry Joe Nelson the youngest of all six kids (both of their last names were changed at adoption in 1962 and are unknown to me). This picture was taken in Great Falls MT in 1972, it was the first time we were reunited with our oldest brother Jerry Lee, 16 (left) since we were separated 9 years earlier. We were allowed to see him for just a few hours. Then, last year, I found him and we are making up for lost time. Also in the picture is my third oldest brother Terry Ray Nelson, 14 (middle) sadly he is now deceased and to the left is my forth older brother Perry Jay Nelson, 13. I'm posting this picture in hopes that all of you will share it on FB. Perhaps someone may know a boy, a man now, who looks or looked like (back in the day) anyone of these three boys and contact them to see if by chance they are my bother(s). Thank you all! ❤ Looking for: Garry Roy Nelson born July 24, 1957 and Barry Joe Nelson born Feb 11th or 12th 1962. Both adopted in Great Falls Mt 1962.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...826.1073741829.100003774606278&type=3&theater

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

I came across this on Facebook

PLEASE HELP! ����Here is a picture of three of my brothers, two are still missing - Garry Roy Nelson the second oldest and Barry Joe Nelson the youngest of all six kids (both of their last names were changed at adoption in 1962 and are unknown to me). This picture was taken in Great Falls MT in 1972, it was the first time we were reunited with our oldest brother Jerry Lee, 16 (left) since we were separated 9 years earlier. We were allowed to see him for just a few hours. Then, last year, I found him and we are making up for lost time. Also in the picture is my third oldest brother Terry Ray Nelson, 14 (middle) sadly he is now deceased and to the left is my forth older brother Perry Jay Nelson, 13. I'm posting this picture in hopes that all of you will share it on FB. Perhaps someone may know a boy, a man now, who looks or looked like (back in the day) anyone of these three boys and contact them to see if by chance they are my bother(s). Thank you all! ❤ Looking for: Garry Roy Nelson born July 24, 1957 and Barry Joe Nelson born Feb 11th or 12th 1962. Both adopted in Great Falls Mt 1962.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...826.1073741829.100003774606278&type=3&theater

View attachment 114828

The middle one has an uncanny resemblance IMO but it sounds like they know what happened to him if i read the post right

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[Alleykins]

The middle one has an uncanny resemblance IMO but it sounds like they know what happened to him if i read the post right
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Yes, I believe the post said the boy pictured in the middle has passed away.
I believe the two that are being searched for aren't pictured. The picture is of siblings depicting what the other two may look like? That's how I read it. One sounds like he was adopted as a baby.

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

Yes, I believe the post said the boy pictured in the middle has passed away.
I believe the two that are being searched for aren't pictured. The picture is of siblings depicting what the other two may look like? That's how I read it. One sounds like he was adopted as a baby.

Well there is a resemblance in at least two of them imo so if that is what the poster was saying it may still be a possibility

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[madamx]

Yes I believe the photo is for reference and the person is looking for 2 brothers that are not pictured but that look like the kids in the photo.. That is impression I got.
Also when I saw the photo I thought of the Daytona John doe. I posted on their thread and told them about the Daytona John Doe and linked this websleuths thread on their post also....You just never know.

Well there is a resemblance in at least two of them imo so if that is what the poster was saying it may still be a possibility

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[CaseCracker1]

The Daytona Beach John Doe... I drove to the pond where his body and that 10 speed were found today. Totaly dried up. We have fires all over FL because no rainfall. Lakes and ponds are drying up all over. Coon Pond is name. 3 miles from 92 in middle of nowhere. Killer had to be from here. Most locals dont even know this place exsists. Pond is in middle of woods on unmarked dirt path. 2 large lakes within walking distance of pond hidden in middle of woods.... The boy Scouts used the big lake nearby from 1928- early 1930s. Maybe killer or his dad was a boy scout here. You dont just find this place. There are tons of easier places to find and dump a body in this county. He knew this place well.

 

[CaseCracker1]

Daytona John Doe... I believe 10 speed bike is key to find killer but wont identify the victim. I think killer was going to collect Bike Insurance money which was going on alot in 1972. He reported bike stolen From New Smryna, 30 min drive. I wonder whats on guys record who reported bike stolen. Wish we had his name. Chances of a bike and body dumped in this place at same time with 50 other easier water places all around no coincidence.

 

[madamx]

oh wow CaseCracker that is awesome that you took a drive there. Iam in NY the best I could do was Google maps ha!.. But I am with you, I feel the person that did this definitely knew the area. from what I saw on the map and now from what you wrote, it is totally a secluded place. That is very interesting the thing about the boys scouts using it as a campground. I am sure there is a connection.


.

The Daytona Beach John Doe... I drove to the pond where his body and that 10 speed were found today. Totaly dried up. We have fires all over FL because no rainfall. Lakes and ponds are drying up all over. Coon Pond is name. 3 miles from 92 in middle of nowhere. Killer had to be from here. Most locals dont even know this place exsists. Pond is in middle of woods on unmarked dirt path. 2 large lakes within walking distance of pond hidden in middle of woods.... The boy Scouts used the big lake nearby from 1928- early 1930s. Maybe killer or his dad was a boy scout here. You dont just find this place. There are tons of easier places to find and dump a body in this county. He knew this place well.

 

[madamx]

Iam with you here CaseCracker. I strongly believe, even though the cops dismissed it, the Bike has something to do with this crime!!! Yes I wish there was some way to find out whose bike this belonged to and if the person by this point has a record... Also I wish there would be some way the cold case guys could go back to New Smyrma where the bike was stolen from and see if anyone Now remembers or would be willing to talk.. Maybe at the time people were to young or afraid..I don't believe its a coincidence the bike that was stolen ends up with the murdered boy in the middle of nowhere at the same time...This is one of the cases that really bugs me!.. Especially because there was another boy murdered at the same time a couple of miles away found in a grove with pretty much the same MO.

Daytona John Doe... I believe 10 speed bike is key to find killer but wont identify the victim. I think killer was going to collect Bike Insurance money which was going on alot in 1972. He reported bike stolen From New Smryna, 30 min drive. I wonder whats on guys record who reported bike stolen. Wish we had his name. Chances of a bike and body dumped in this place at same time with 50 other easier water places all around no coincidence.

 

[madamx]

John McRae. When he resided in Michigan, 16 years-old at the time, McRae was convicted for killing an eight year-old neighbor boy named John Housey. John vanished on September 9, 1950, and was found two weeks later when a volunteer searching for him sat down on a broken sidewalk. When he looked over, he saw part of a child's right arm in the mud. His throat had been cut.* The hand had a silver cub scout ring on the middle finger, and that's when searchers knew they had found John Mousey, a former cub scout. A 75 pound slab of concrete had been pulled over the boy to conceal him. McRae would be paroled in 1972 for the young boy's murder, and he would move to Brevard County in Florida, where he landed a job at the Correctional Institution. From the time of his arrival in 1976, to his departure for Michigan in 1980, young boys would mysteriously vanish from the area.Authorities did not think it was coincidence that the disappearances started when he arrived, and stopped when he left. Taking his past into account with the murder of John Mousey, it seemed trouble followed him where ever he went.

This quote (from the article below) caught my eye and made me think if they took prints off of the Bicycle that was found with John Doe.
These crimes happened years ago, but there has been much advancements in forensic technology since 1977. Kip's father, Kipling Hess, pointed out his son's bicycle had not been dusted for prints until a year after his disappearance.

http://deaniepeters-missingangels.blogspot.com/2014/01/kipling-randolph-hessiii-missing-34.html


It would be very interesting to know exactly when this guy in 1972 moved to Brevard County Florida...(which is not far from New Smyrma and Volusia
It still does not give us the identity of the John Doe I know.

 

[CaseCracker1]

Madamx , John Mcrae was someone I had looked into as well. He was parolled in 1972 but moved to Brevard county 3 years after parole. Mcrae was still in MI when boy was murdered. Good work but not this boys killer.

 

[madamx]

oh thank you CaseCracker... he seemed perfect!..i just did not know when he moved to Brevard... well that clears him.. I came across this The Sheriffs Boys Ranch where wayward kids were housed it was not far.. and there was a girls one that opened in 1972.. both on opposite sides of where the boy was found.. just wondering maybe he could of been from there... I am grasping at straws here...ha!! There is a photo of the sheriffs with some of the boys from the ranch that I found kind of interesting though

https://www.flsheriffs.org/uploads/star/THE_SHERIFFS_STAR_VOL_14,_NO_12,_FEBRUARY_1971.pdf
Just thinking of the angle you mentioned of someone knowing the area....

Madamx , John Mcrae was someone I had looked into as well. He was parolled in 1972 but moved to Brevard county 3 years after parole. Mcrae was still in MI when boy was murdered. Good work but not this boys killer.

 

[CaseCracker1]

Madamx, I never thought of that. What do the youth camps do? Do kids live there or just camp for a week? Looks like a new angle to look into.... Im going to request a public records request on this case. Its such a old cold case they might let us look at most of records.

 

[madamx]

I am looking at everything and anything that I can find from 1972 in that ... I really want to find out who this poor kid was!!!..oh I came across the Sheriffs Boys Ranch in my searches.. and I am trying to find out where but I read that they housed up to 100 boys at a time.. Oh that is awesome CaseCracker if you can request public records on this case and maybe get some more info from it.. Like a name for the person who reported the bike stolen.. or even an area of where it was stolen from.. Maybe there is some clue there..anything at all...

Madamx, I never thought of that. What do the youth camps do? Do kids live there or just camp for a week? Looks like a new angle to look into.... Im going to request a public records request on this case. Its such a old cold case they might let us look at most of records.