FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen #13 *1 guilty*

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
GordonX said:
As I've posted before -

CA's possible defense -

"I was just joking/venting about killing DM. KM went behind my back and hired someone to do it to ingratiate herself to me! I paid them and played along because of what I thought were gang threats to my life and my family's life."

DA's possible defense -

"I knew nothing. I just went along and did whatever CA told me to do."
Click to expand...

What are your thoughts on either of them testifying? In their own trials and/or for each other?
 
vislaw said:
This is a rather unusual situation in which a defendant took the stand (twice) to give testimony that essentially constitutes perjury if she now cooperates. Ordinarily, this would so damage a defendant's credibility that her testimony would be of little value (the trusty "are you lying now or were you lying then" cross examination is devastating). However, this is an unusual case where there doesn't seem to be ANY other credible theory for the murder. In most cases there are stray claims that a drug deal went wrong (see Ron Goldman / Nicole Brown Simpson murders) or a burglary gone wrong etc. In this case we have convicted hit men in a crime where the Adelsons have the obvious motive and the defense really is going to have to stretch to offer any sort of alternative theory. Given how powerful the circumstantial evidence is, I can see where it might be quite valuable to have Katie testify even if she doesn't have anything new to add other than "yep, we all did it and we did it for the Adelsons." Even though the jury would obviously look at her with contempt, hearing such testimony out of her mouth would be dramatic and powerful.

When I used to practice as a trial lawyer we were always mindful that our primary role in court was to be a storyteller. The jury has to be engaged and persuaded; and calling a witness like Katie is almost a no-risk proposition given the lack of a credible alternative theory in the case. Indeed, unlike Luis Rivera, Katie was actually "in the room where it happened" and will be able to describe chilling details that we've never heard. Sure, the defense will savage her and destroy her on cross, but you can't really get hurt falling out a first floor window. I think Georgia and crew are planning chess movies using Katie to tell the story of what happened here and they really don't need to worry about her credibility because Charlie sure isn't going to take the stand and her testimony will put enormous pressure on the defense.
Click to expand...
Agree - it will be a boost for prosecution to have her testify against Charlie. I guess my point was that she has very little leverage and I’d be really surprised if she gets a significant sentence reduction for just Charlie. I hope she gives up more Adelsons. Having said that, it’s hard to imagine the other Adelsons were in the room when she was plotting this with Charlie. Can’t imagine Wendi or Donna exposing themselves that way. She may only have “Charlie told me Wendi/Donna wanted it done” testimony….not sure if that’s enough to charge the others.
 
I don't post very often but I have been following this case since it happened. I am wondering if anyone else has thought about how this newest development is impacting the Adelsons. Does anyone think there is reason to be concerned about the family members committing suicide or hurting the boys and then doing away with themselves? Wendi showed a lot of emotion on the stand when discussing the boys and also when the possibility of her being charged came up during Katie's retrial. If they feel the walls closing in on them (and I couldn't see how they don't feel vulnerable) and that their arrests are imminent, I am worried that Dan's sons may be in danger. I can't imagine that they have many friends anymore or people that believe they were not involved. Wow - it must be so stressful for the kids living under those conditions.
 
candycane said:
I don't post very often but I have been following this case since it happened. I am wondering if anyone else has thought about how this newest development is impacting the Adelsons. Does anyone think there is reason to be concerned about the family members committing suicide or hurting the boys and then doing away with themselves? Wendi showed a lot of emotion on the stand when discussing the boys and also when the possibility of her being charged came up during Katie's retrial. If they feel the walls closing in on them (and I couldn't see how they don't feel vulnerable) and that their arrests are imminent, I am worried that Dan's sons may be in danger. I can't imagine that they have many friends anymore or people that believe they were not involved. Wow - it must be so stressful for the kids living under those conditions.
Click to expand...
The only thing I would be concerned about is the possibility of leaving the country. JMO.
 
katiecoolady said:
I relistened to a podcast yesterday which had the entire footage of the 2017 hearing where Kawass is arguing to keep the information about who is paying for Katie's defense "in camera". which the Judge granted.

But one small thing stood out for me in her words "nothing the State has can contradict who is paying our legal fees at this moment".

At this moment.

But how about before that moment? And after that moment?
Click to expand...

Is it possible that the source of the money for Katie's legal fees might be part of her value to the prosecution?
 
candycane said:
I agree but I would guess they are being watched 24/7. If they did go to the airport, I would guess there is nothing to stop them from leaving the country.
Click to expand...
It seems that suspects are (reasonably) often intercepted and arrested when they are perceived to be trying to flee. I would imagine that there must be some plan, if they did travel to the airport- I hope so anyway!
 
I believe unless they get indicted, they are free to leave the country. Even if they’re being watched. But could be extradited later (unless they go to Lebanon or Russia for example) if they ever get charged. JMO
 
Weki said:
Wow! Major development. Just learned about this when some video popped up on my YouTube feed. I don’t believe that Kawass and DaCoste discouraged KM from turning state’s evidence/taking a deal from the get go. I think it was her own narcissistic delusions that prevented her from copping to this. Now that her kids are estranging from her and she’s facing a life sentence, the delusion is fading!

My speculation is that KM will offer up 1 or more Adelson family member besides Charlie. I can’t imagine they’d give her much for just testifying against Charlie. Maybe a diff prison but not much reduction in time for just giving up Charlie - that’s not much leverage for her since they were prepared to go forward on him w/o her.
Click to expand...
I agree with you! I have pondered so many times over the years about the fact that KM did not plea bargain before and took this to two trials. Many thoughts ran through my mind. I even wondered if she was scared of the Addison’s and thought if she told the truth - they’d some how off her too, but I always came back to thinking KM is quite possibly just a heartless narcissist and that she was personally unwilling to admit any involvement in Dan’s murder. Now that she has been convicted, of course she’s rethinking - anything to save her own butt and to make her situation less bleak. If she’s ready to admit her part, and the parts of the Adelson’s - I hope, maybe just for curiosity’s sake, we will learn why she refused to come clean over all these years. I know killers are a different breed, and I can’t begin to understand their thought process, but dang - I want some insight into why she protected the Adelson’s all these years while Dan’s family has suffered.
 
Gypsy Road said:
I agree with you! I have pondered so many times over the years about the fact that KM did not plea bargain before and took this to two trials. Many thoughts ran through my mind. I even wondered if she was scared of the Addison’s and thought if she told the truth - they’d some how off her too, but I always came back to thinking KM is quite possibly just a heartless narcissist and that she was personally unwilling to admit any involvement in Dan’s murder. Now that she has been convicted, of course she’s rethinking - anything to save her own butt and to make her situation less bleak. If she’s ready to admit her part, and the parts of the Adelson’s - I hope, maybe just for curiosity’s sake, we will learn why she refused to come clean over all these years. I know killers are a different breed, and I can’t begin to understand their thought process, but dang - I want some insight into why she protected the Adelson’s all these years while Dan’s family has suffered.
Click to expand...
I recently read this popular true crime book, Fatal Vision, by Joe McGinniss. That was a crime of a man who killed his family but from a psychological viewpoint I realized that someone who is capable of doing something so heinous is very good at compartmentalizing. That’s what that book reveals ultimately. They reject anything that disturbs their version of themselves as being this helpless person being persecuted unfairly and undeservedly by the state. Admitting you orchestrated a hit is a tremendous attack on KM’s view of herself. I think the poor me, little girl persona we saw on the stand is the way KM viewed herself. It’s an ego death to confess. They might even convince themselves they had no responsibility or even forget what they did or minimize it so much that it becomes trivial or inevitable in their minds. The mind is a powerful thing. Many never come clean even with a life sentence and continue to fight to prove their innocence like the subject of Fatal Vision. Freedom is not more important to them and that’s baffling to us spectating.

Who knows what truly motivated her! But what a colossal mistake!

I’m guessing once she gets on the stand she’ll be asked why she lied and didn’t confess sooner and we’ll have some version of the real answer then.
 
Last edited:
This case has been fascinating at every turn. I wondered if the public nature of having to ask for transportation for the proffer is something that the prosecution is hoping will lead to the parties responding. The thing is, they all know now not to talk on their phones and that everything is being recorded.

It was probably purposeful to not have Kawass be the one to go with her since she put herself out on a limb vehemently defending how innocent her client was. I absolutely think they should reduce the sentence to get all on everything with Charlie and his family. Katie knows everything. And as everyone said, curious to see what will or will not be revealed about who paid for her million dollar defense. I hope we get good news here for justice.
 
Many things look different to KM now that she’s been sentenced. Based entirely upon what’s been revealed about KM so far, she Is motivated by: money, status, and money. Did I forget to say money? Did the money stop flowing?
 
I hope that ask: What transpired on the day you were at the beach with Wendi? Was there any significance to the dinner with Wendi, Charlie, you, and Jeffrey Lacasse? Was his model car an important part of the plan? Was there a plan to try and make him the fall guy? What happens when the Adelsons’ realized he had an alibi?
 
Rivkah11 said:
Many things look different to KM now that she’s been sentenced. Based entirely upon what’s been revealed about KM so far, she Is motivated by: money, status, and money. Did I forget to say money? Did the money stop flowing?
Click to expand...
Yes!
I've long believed KM's earlier silence even after being offered immunity by the prosecution was due to some arrangement in place between KM and CA such as a blind trust with her children named as the beneficiaries. Once CA was picked up, seems to me the $$$ pipeline went dry. MOO
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is DeKalb County John Doe (2022)?

Members online

... and 120 more.
Total: 1,823 (members: 121, guests: 1,702)

Online statistics

Members online
121
Guests online
1,702
Total visitors
1,823
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
601,757
Messages
18,129,374
Members
231,138
Latest member
mjF7nx
Back
Top