GUILTY FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen #17

[alexwood]

Why didn’t Jeff LaCasse ask what happened to the TV? He says he got there and it has this giant break in the screen like someone hit it, and he doesn‘t say “hey, what happened?” Weird.

Allegedly, Wendi and Dan's boys were said to have cracked the screen.

 

[alexwood]

Exactly! Why were these women good enough for Charlie but not Robert? Why was Dan not good enough even though he was Jewish? Donna has some very strange ideas.

Well, I don't think Charlie ever told Donna that he intended to marry any of them. I think Dan was good enough, at first, and because of his pedigree, Donna perceived him as being destined for wealth and greatness. When that didn't quite pan out, and the fact that Wendi said she never had a burning in her heart for Dan (I don't know that she ever shared that with Donna, though), the bloom was off the rose.

 

[amicuscurie]

Allegedly, Wendi and Dan's boys were said to have cracked the screen.

That’s what she says. He doesn’t say, and he does say it didn’t look like the damage could’ve been done by a child. I assume Georgia didn’t ask him what she said because it was hearsay?

 

[alexwood]

It would be interesting to see more of Charlies bevy of asian women....the two we have seen are indeed very similar...other than one involved with a gang member. Bet there are a string of them all looking similar. Over my history of watching trials I have noted how often it is a "dentist" that commits the murder or at least makes the headlines. Locally we have had a few. I assume Harvey is no longer practicing and this "family dental practice" is closed. Some choice comments about the Adelson Institute on Yelp. One mentioning their expertise in putting people "to sleep"!

Oh, I'll have to look up those reviews!

 

[Blue Shakehead]

Apparently Magbanua was returned to prison today. Which doesn't mean that they aren't seeking a GJ indictment against Donna on Wednesday but....its weird that they'd keep her in Leon County for a week after trial and then NOT use her in a GJ hearing.

 

[FreddyG]

I should add: I'm not a criminal lawyer, so if I'm getting any of the law or analysis wrong, corrections are most welcome. Especially if those corrections can dispel my concern that the final element of abetting doesn't apply in DA's case.

OK y'all I think I figured out the mistake of my post: I was assuming that if you don't pull the trigger the only option is to charge you as an accessory. Not so, based on my listening to the actual criminal lawyers on STS just now. They explained that the degree of planning DA did would allow her to be charged as a co-principal along with Charlie (he was also charged with straight up 1st degree based on his arranging the murder). The STS lawyers opined that DA would be charged with the same three counts as CA: first degree murder, conspiracy to commit murder, and solicitation of murder. CA was not charged on an accessory theory, perhaps because it's a hard charge to make stick with the knowledge and intent elements. Apologies for gumming up the thread with an ultimately irrelevant point. I tried to delete but that option was not available.

 

[alexwood]

No...he is 100% estranged from the family and doubt he has spoken to them in decades. The only time he seemed to be mentioned is when Charlie said he thought that Donna did not like him at all.

Well, Robert is certainly better off without that family!

 

[FreddyG]

Apparently Magbanua was returned to prison today. Which doesn't mean that they aren't seeking a GJ indictment against Donna on Wednesday but....its weird that they'd keep her in Leon County for a week after trial and then NOT use her in a GJ hearing.

I agree that's weird. Could be though that they don't want to use her given her conviction and credibility issues. Instead they could get representatives from law enforcement to testify, which is often the practice in grand jury proceedings.

 

[alexwood]

I think Donna was trolling the dating website and pushed Wendi to him maybe based on educational background or something else that she thought would be a good partner to give her grandchildren. Maybe he wrote about interest in starting a family etc. Donna was involved in every more that Wendi made. Would be interesting to know just how many trips to Tally she made and no doubt stayed in their home...bet she was there way more than Dan would have liked...combine that with Wendi going to MIA and then Dan building his career and resume and Wendi's career not really moving ahead...receipt for divorce but never murder.

And, according to Epstein's book (I believe, though don't know for a fact as I have not read it myself), Donna was very proud that Wendi had remained a virgin all through her High School years.

 

[alexwood]

They met on Jdate, a Jewish dating site. She testified that they first met in person when he was working at a law firm in DC, and she flew up there to interview for an internship and arranged to meet him while there. He worked in private practice at a very prestigious firm before he got the job as a professor at FSU. I think (JMO, I don’t know this) Donna may have been more impressed that he was a high-powered (and highly paid) attorney with a big firm than when he became a professor, which she may have viewed as less prestigious and which paid less. Her emails refer to Wendi, who also taught a class at the law school (though not as a full professor), as a “teacher,” and she says this with disdain. She says she wants Wendi to take the job with a private firm in South Florida, and not be “a teacher in Tallahassee.” It’s interesting, because Donna was a teacher, before she had children.

I'm dying to know which prestigious large law firm employed Dan Markel. Also, at which law firm in Washington, DC, Wendi did an internship.

 

[IQuestion]

In terms of a possible conspiracy charge, she is also heard on the wiretap right after the bump, telling Charlie that the situation involved Charlie and her, and saying words to the effect of the "TV will cost $5,000". JMO.

THIS!!! On APRIL 11, 2016 (almost 2 years after Dan's murder) DA is "bumped by FBI" and she is still talking about "TV's" with CA and this one will cost $5,000. OMG...WA claims she spoke to CA (18 minutes) about the cost of a new TV on the morning of Dan's death. So, besides being an expert on how extortionists work, CA is also an expert on the pricing of TV's, too?
refreshing convo:
Donna: “I got some paperwork hand-delivered to me.”
Charlie: “Does it involve me or other people?”
Donna: “Well probably both of us… probably the two of us. You probably have a general idea what I’m talking about.”

Charlie: “If it’s a threat you go to the police.”
Donna: “I don’t think that’s a good idea.”

Charlie: “Obviously, don’t talk about things in the apartment or any place.”
Donna: “Obviously.”

Charlie: “What did they ask for?”
Donna: “This TV was probably about five.”
Charlie: “They asked you for five thousand dollars?”
Donna: “And mentioned an ex-girlfriend.”

 

[cottonweaver]

Were the defense and prosecution told which jurors were the alternates when deliberations started?

yes but the alternates weren't told they were alternates

( I got this from MentourLawyer's channel. He's local and he also attended quite a few of the jury selection days. )

 

[cottonweaver]

I'm dying to know which prestigious large law firm employed Dan Markel. Also, at which law firm in Washington, DC, Wendi did an internship.

I think the names of one or both firms were on that 20/20 episode.

 

[Weki]

OK y'all I think I figured out the mistake of my post: I was assuming that if you don't pull the trigger the only option is to charge you as an accessory. Not so, based on my listening to the actual criminal lawyers on STS just now. They explained that the degree of planning DA did would allow her to be charged as a co-principal along with Charlie (he was also charged with straight up 1st degree based on his arranging the murder). The STS lawyers opined that DA would be charged with the same three counts as CA: first degree murder, conspiracy to commit murder, and solicitation of murder. CA was not charged on an accessory theory, perhaps because it's a hard charge to make stick with the knowledge and intent elements. Apologies for gumming up the thread with an ultimately irrelevant point. I tried to delete but that option was not available.

Oh yeah Donna is most definitely a principal. I’m not a lawyer either but have watched many trials so that’s where my understanding comes from. If you do things to actively further a conspiracy you’re a principal not an accessory. You’re the driver, in other words. That’s why it’s hard to charge Wendi because there’s virtually no evidence (beyond a reasonable doubt) that she FURTHERED the conspiracy. JMO

 

[amicuscurie]

I'm dying to know which prestigious large law firm employed Dan Markel. Also, at which law firm in Washington, DC, Wendi did an internship.

Wendi was interviewing for a public interest summer internship, not with a firm. She was still in law school. I don’t believe she was ever in private practice before the murder, though Donna’s emails indicate to me that she may have wanted her to be.

The name of the firm Dan worked at is in Epstein’s book.

Epstein’s book is good. You don’t have to agree with him on everything, but it has a lot of background on each family and their lives before this incident. He does write from the perspective of someone who thinks Wendi did not know about the alleged murder plot, he is very dismissive of LaCasse, and he does not portray Dan as a saint or completely blameless in the divorce, though of course he does not suggest the murder was at all justified. (Some of this may not age well, time will tell). Again, you don’t have to take that perspective, but it’s definitely a worthwhile read, about as good as any in the pulpy true crime genre, and I believe Epstein has been unfairly judged by some followers of this case.

 

[cottonweaver]

Is it significant that it is Judge Everett, or are they randomly assigned?

ETA- do they meet every week, or only when the state has a case to bring before them? They must have more than one criminal case going to the grand jury at any given time, right? Does anyone know how this works?

IDK but is this link any use?

'The grand jury convenes monthly for one to three days during the 18 month term of service.'
( I can't read the whole link right now. )

Jury Duty Information | Northern District of Florida | United States District Court

www.flnd.uscourts.gov

 

[cottonweaver]

Maybe everyone already understood this when it happened, but I am re-watching and found this interesting. In Wendi's recent testimony, Georgia was asking her about Harvey's 70th birthday party.

Georgia: "What was on the menu?"
Wendi: "Umm, we had Paella."
Georgia: "Were you responsible for securing the Paella or was that your brother's job?"
Wendi: "I didn't arrange it but I speak Spanish and no one else could communicate with him (the caterer) so I spent some time helping him (Charlie), that's why I remember what we ate."

Charlie later testifies that the 70th birthday gift was him organizing and paying for the caterer. Whats interesting here is: Charlie has not testified yet, but Georgia already knows that Charlie is going to pretend that the 70th bday gift is the Paella Chef/caterer. And Georgia also seems to know that Wendi was the one who was contacting the Paella caterer.

Likewise, despite having sworn under oath that she has never talked to her family about this case since 2016, Wendi can instantly recall, with photographic precision, that her very minimal involvement in the catering was to help Charlie because she spoke Spanish. Diabolical.

wow that's bizarre!

Carl Steinbeck explained on one of his shows that John Lauro & Rashbaum will have liased and that Lauro will have been given a list of questions Rashb will ask Wendi so that they match Charlie's
BUT
as you say, if CA hadn't even testified how did she know this by rote but couldn't recall any of the other birthday gifts?

 

[amicuscurie]

IDK but is this link any use?

'The grand jury convenes monthly for one to three days during the 18 month term of service.'
( I can't read the whole link right now. )

Jury Duty Information | Northern District of Florida | United States District Court

www.flnd.uscourts.gov

That’s Federal. This would be a state grand jury, so it might meet differently.

 

[alexwood]

Yep. If you get married, the ring is yours. But a lot of people do give it back. Also- why were there TWO engagement rings? Could they not even agree on that?

*Did she really say “her widow,” or is that a typo?

I noticed that too. It should have been widower.

 

[amicuscurie]

Hey- while we are speculating, is it strange that Katie needed a babysitter at the last minute on the night of the murder, if it was planned in advance? I thought that was a decent point by Rashbaum, though obviously not enough for reasonable doubt. Any theories? Did she not anticipate Charlie wanting her to sleep over, or that they would want the money early the next morning? Did she not know exactly when, or if, the murder would occur? That’s what she says in her proffer, but she also says Sig came to her for expenses before he left, so she would have known they were going that weekend. Just how involved was this plan?