GUILTY FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen #17

[Tanager]

I really appreciate the way that GC delivered her case in a direct and dignified manner. There was no showboating, no overly dramatic flourishes, just facts. That is treating a jury with respect, and it shows that she trusts the process. She let Charlie's hubris on the wiretaps and his flashy and very much amplified attorney be the contrast to her calm manner. I believe she did this to highlight that she does not need the tools of manipulation to make her case- that is only necessary when the facts are not on your side.

It is also the way the system should work, optimally. I would not feel good about any verdict that was obtained through melodramatic manipulation. I still mourn the OTHER CA verdict. It was obtained, I believe, with nothing but lies and melodrama, and the defense attorney in that case admits that he was shocked that it worked. Just 100% yuck.

I remind myself before every verdict: these people have to live with what they have done no matter what the verdict is. They have to live the remainder of their lives knowing that they are ugly inside, no matter what they present to the world. The only way to be free from the prison of these thoughts is to publicly own their crimes.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

If I was on that jury I’d say “we are all voting guilty, right?” I mean, seriously! Sometimes they do come into the room like that. JMO

Yes, I'd imagine many of them will. I've even heard of some juries agreeing to vote guilty on their first poll but then stalling for an hour or two just to give the impression that they were seriously wading through the evidence.

If this was a "husband kills wife, his DNA is on the knife" case, deliberations would be 5 mins. But almost all of the evidence here is electronic. Wiretaps. It really is a puzzle that the jury needs to put together. So I'd bet deliberations go on for a minimum of 3 hours today and could even go on until tomorrow around noon. And thats with a guilty verdict.

And while I am just as anxious waiting for the verdict as everyone else, I am extremely comforted by the fact that I am not as anxious or worried as Donna, Harvey and Wendi who are literally and figuratively pooping themselves.

 

[Ferpo]

While we're waiting, what do folks think about the Markels pursuing a civil suit against the A's? Would the verdict from this trial matter? OJ victim families went this route even though the criminal trial found OJ innocent.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

I really appreciate the way that GC delivered her case in a direct and dignified manner. There was no showboating, no overly dramatic flourishes, just facts. That is treating a jury with respect, and it shows that she trusts the process. She let Charlie's hubris on the wiretaps and his flashy and very much amplified attorney be the contrast to her calm manner. I believe she did this to highlight that she does not need the tools of manipulation to make her case- that is only necessary when the facts are not on your side.

It is also the way the system should work, optimally. I would not feel good about any verdict that was obtained through melodramatic manipulation. I still mourn the OTHER CA verdict. It was obtained, I believe, with nothing but lies and melodrama, and the defense attorney in that case admits that he was shocked that it worked. Just 100% yuck.

I remind myself before every verdict: these people have to live with what they have done no matter what the verdict is. They have to live the remainder of their lives knowing that they are ugly inside, no matter what they present to the world. The only way to be free from the prison of these thoughts is to publicly own their crimes.

I agree with everything you wrote, but take no comfort from the last paragraph. Whether its Casey Anthony or Charlie, Donna and Wendi Adelson - these people have no conscience whatsoever. They are true sociopaths. Charlie couldn't even admit on the stand that Dan Markel was a brilliant law professor. They almost never mention his name. Donna once told June Umchinda that "Danny is still haunting her from the grave". She didnt mean that because she was ashamed of what she had done by murdering him, but it was a reference to how he haunted her in life and even after she "justifiably" took his life.....the investigation was now causing her "aggravation". Even when Dan Markel is dead, he's still somehow able to ruin her life. Thats how the Adelsons see the world.

No remorse. No shame. They truly believe that they are the victims and they are delusional enough to the point where they probably now believe their own extortion theory that they just made up a few months ago. You and I will never understand this because we aren't sociopaths.

 

[MartinDupuis]

Georgia's great but anything other than a guilty verdict will have me thinking the State needed a more demonstrative prosecutor like Kelly Siegler.

Kelly Siegler was a beast...the best

 

[nodamselindistress]

I wonder where the Adelson verdict watching party is today.

And wonder if they are having Paella!!

 

[amicuscurie]

Yes, I'd imagine many of them will. I've even heard of some juries agreeing to vote guilty on their first poll but then stalling for an hour or two just to give the impression that they were seriously wading through the evidence.

If this was a "husband kills wife, his DNA is on the knife" case, deliberations would be 5 mins. But almost all of the evidence here is electronic. Wiretaps. It really is a puzzle that the jury needs to put together. So I'd bet deliberations go on for a minimum of 3 hours today and could even go on until tomorrow around noon. And thats with a guilty verdict.

And while I am just as anxious waiting for the verdict as everyone else, I am extremely comforted by the fact that I am not as anxious or worried as Donna, Harvey and Wendi who are literally and figuratively pooping themselves.

If they are guilty as alleged, it troubles me that they have been able to have these 10 years with the boys, which seems to be what they wanted. But, I think they’ve most likely had little peace since 2016. I feel sad for the boys. This is the only family they have known for nearly all of their lives. They probably have little relationship with the Markels. (I don’t know any of this for a fact, of course). It’s all so sad, and I really hope justice is done in this case. I will never understand why they weren’t all arrested at the same time. Sure, there’s the enhanced Dolce Vita, but Katie almost got convicted without it. They still had the stapled money, the bump tapes, the checks from Donna, the cell towers, and Luis Rivera, which is a lot. (To think that without the bump, there might not have been much of a case. Glad they decided to do that). Also, it is upsetting to me that Katie didn’t decide to cooperate earlier. She still ended up in jail. She could’ve given them Charlie as she did in this trial. I think the state and the cops were counting on the dominoes falling, which is what usually happens with conspiracies. She says she did it for Sigfredo. But she could have gotten less time, and gotten the people allegedly responsible convicted. The state’s job was made so much more difficult without her cooperation, and even now, though she is cooperating, she looks like a liar and the defense can use that. What a mess! JMO.

This is a pretty unusual trial. Many Defendants plead out and don’t go to trial. Most don’t take the stand. And most don’t have the money to hire good lawyers. I hope the jury will convict, because I think the state proved its case supported by the evidence, but you can never tell.

 

[Gypsy Road]

And wonder if they are having Paella!!

And Pepto. Definitely Pepto on the menu today.

 

[amicuscurie]

And Pepto. Definitely Pepto in the menu today.

Do we think they’re watching? Or have they just washed their hands of Charlie at this point?

 

[Blue Shakehead]

And wonder if they are having Paella!!

I'd bet the Adelsons are finally having the banana bread that Donna baked for Dan after they hugged and made up and Dan asked her to babysit his kids before his murder but after he'd filed (and never withdrew) his motion to prevent Donna from having unsupervised visitation with the kids.

That banana bread went missing during Wendi's police interview in 2014 and then it was also missing in her testimonies in 2019 and 2022 but they somehow found it right before Charlies trial in 2023. I hope they kept it in the freezer.

 

[BearWatcher]

Where should we be watching to see that a verdict has come in? Are any of the people on WS today in the court house / local area waiting? Should we be watching somewhere else? Don’t want to miss the outcome.

 

[alexwood]

Me too! I got my entire downstairs cleaned and uncluttered listening to this trial. I rarely left the house during court hours because I didn’t want to miss anything! My kitchen floor has never been so clean lol. And YAY ….closing arguments are over, so I’m off to goodwill in a hurry so I won’t try to “rescue” anything I put in the goodwill bags while the jury deliberates!

I wonder how long they will deliberate?

Good plan!
I believe we'll have a verdict by 5:30 p.m. EST. (Just guessing here.)

 

[Gypsy Road]

Do we think they’re watching? Or have they just washed their hands of Charlie at this point?

I don’t think they’ve washed their hands of him. I think they ate watching every bit they can.

If I were a juror - I think I would be wondering why Wendi isn’t in the court room supporting her brother.

 

[Mrspratcher]

He put in camera equipment because he hired a Jack boy and a Latin king to murder his brother in law and they actually murdered Dan. He knew he was dealing with really bad guys. That’s my opinion.

Or he wanted to see when police were at his door to arrest him!

 

[alexwood]

I wish all of you could teleport to my house so we could suffer through verdict watch together! I would serve snacks and drinks. This forum has been so great, no one I know has followed this case so I’ve had no one to talk to. My husband pretends to listen but it’s not the same thing as getting into the details with all of you.

Please post your address! I'll bring a full bar and a complement of snacks!

 

[alexwood]

Where should we be watching to see that a verdict has come in? Are any of the people on WS today in the court house / local area waiting? Should we be watching somewhere else? Don’t want to miss the outcome.

I think Law&Crime on YouTube.

 

[amicuscurie]

Or he wanted to see when police were at his door to arrest him!

He had cameras pointed at the doors and windows when they arrested him. And guns. According to Epstein’s book.

 

[alexwood]

I don’t think they’ve washed their hands of him. I think they ate watching every bit they can.

If I were a juror - I think I would be wondering why Wendi isn’t in the court room supporting her brother.

Out of sight, out of mind! The fam doesn't want the authorities to get any ideas.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

If they are guilty as alleged, it troubles me that they have been able to have these 10 years with the boys, which seems to be what they wanted. But, I think they’ve most likely had little peace since 2016. I feel sad for the boys. This is the only family they have known for nearly all of their lives. They probably have little relationship with the Markels. (I don’t know any of this for a fact, of course). It’s all so sad, and I really hope justice is done in this case. I will never understand why they weren’t all arrested at the same time. Sure, there’s the enhanced Dolce Vita, but Katie almost got convicted without it. They still had the stapled money, the bump tapes, the checks from Donna, the cell towers, and Luis Rivera, which is a lot. (To think that without the bump, there might not have been much of a case. Glad they decided to do that). Also, it is upsetting to me that Katie didn’t decide to cooperate earlier. She still ended up in jail. She could’ve given them Charlie as she did in this trial. I think the state and the cops were counting on the dominoes falling, which is what usually happens with conspiracies. She says she did it for Sigfredo. But she could have gotten less time, and gotten the people allegedly responsible convicted. The state’s job was made so much more difficult without her cooperation, and even now, though she is cooperating, she looks like a liar and the defense can use that. What a mess! JMO.

This is a pretty unusual trial. Many Defendants plead out and don’t go to trial. Most don’t take the stand. And most don’t have the money to hire good lawyers. I hope the jury will convict, because I think the state proved its case supported by the evidence, but you can never tell.

Totally, same page. Magbanua was offered immunity and didn't flip. That is not only unusual, it never happens. And another thing you never see happen is a State Attorney (Willie Megs) giving press conferences and publicly defending the Adelson family against the overzealous FBI and police officers who want to arrest them. That is unheard of.

In both cases, I believe the Adelson's financial and political resources have allowed them to avoid prosecution. Georgia has said that they needed Dolce Vita to be enhanced, and thats how they were able to finally arrest Charlie. I believe her, but I also believe that this explanation also helps the State Attorney's Office justify having not charged Charlie in the first place.

 

[BSBC]

People have been speculating that if CA is convicted, DA will be charged soon thereafter. I don't follow that logic. While a conviction of CA would give the state a psychological boost, it would not actually give the state additional evidence. Recall that the impetus for CA's arrest was "new" evidence, i.e., the enhancement of the Dolce Vida recording. The trial did not produce new evidence of DA's guilt to which the state did not previously have access. If the state believed they had the evidence to convict DA, I think they would have already charged her. I'm just not sure how a conviction of CA makes a prosecution of DA materially more viable. But convince me I'm wrong...