FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *4 Guilty* #21

[Knitpicker]

Yes but note that Wendi is The Source, again.
Not only was she present and in control of the visit, she's also responsible for the negative, bitchy spin which gets relayed within the family.
Remind you of anything?

Did you hear the jail call when Donna gets cut off and the calls still being recorded? 11/8.
At about the 57 min. mark you can hear what sounds like Donna sobbing.
as soon as the call is over, not even 3 seconds after her sobbing, she is talking with Harvey in a completely ”normal” tone, as if she was never upset. Switched the sobbing act in a few seconds.
It’s hard to imagine that a mother can be role playing for a child, but I am convinced that is what she does with Charlie and everyone else in her life. It’s all an act.

 

[Knitpicker]

We don’t know why the visit lasted an hour, perhaps that is what was agreed to in advance, perhaps the Markels didn’t want to put undue stress on the children, perhaps they could see that the children were becoming tired or disinterested or didn‘t have much more to say, who knows. Perhaps they felt this was enough for a first visit after a long time and didnt want to rush things. Donna also says she asked the boys how the visit went, so some of her info may be coming from them. In my opinion it would not be unreasonable for them to have described the visit as awkward. Visits with kids from relatives they haven’t seen in a long time can be awkward even under the best of circumstances not involving the alleged murder of one parent by the family of the other.

I’m almost sure from Phil’s victim statement, that the amount of times the M’s saw the boys , and length of the visits,and the fact they were never left alone with the boys, was due to Wendi’s control.
Do you really believe anything Donna says at this point?
Shes talking, knowing she is being recorded.
She knows Georgia questioned Wendi About this.

Defense mode.
I have no doubt Donna has brainwashed those boys from Day 1 after they had their father murdered.

 

[amicuscurie]

No I meant after she served him papers and moved out of the family home. Her parents helped her move out. That her parents were there to help her. I didn’t say she went to live with them in my comment, but yes, there was some confusion over this bc it was reported she went back to S FL for 2 weeks and even longer without DM knowing where they were.

She seems to have cleared her house out and left for South Florida within two days of the murder. To me, that seems like a pretty short time in which to move, but what do I know. In Ruth Markel’s book she says she went to the house after the funeral and it appeared that few of the children’s toys and things were there in the living room, and she thought this was unusual. Ruth says WendI promised she could visit with the boys for the next day. According to Ruth, when she called Wendi the next day to set up that visit, Wendi cancelled it, saying the boys were “busy.” The day after that, (two days after the funeral) Ruth says she asked again if she could see the boys, and Wendi told her they were in South Florida, having left the day before but hadn’t told Ruth of their plans to leave because she was concerned about “security.” Ruth then realized that this was probably why so few of the children’s toys and things were visible when she went to Wendi’s house for the funeral.

 

[amicuscurie]

Did you hear the jail call when Donna gets cut off and the calls still being recorded? 11/8.
At about the 57 min. mark you can hear what sounds like Donna sobbing.
as soon as the call is over, not even 3 seconds after her sobbing, she is talking with Harvey in a completely ”normal” tone, as if she was never upset. Switched the sobbing act in a few seconds.
It’s hard to imagine that a mother can be role playing for a child, but I am convinced that is what she does with Charlie and everyone else in her life. It’s all an act.

I noticed this as well. To me, there are some similar abrupt shifts from crying to normal in Wendi’s police interview.

 

[cottonweaver]

Yes. But I doubt what Donna is saying is solely from what Wendi tells her.

In general yes I agree but in that call, which @BUF linked to, it's Donna's retelling the visit to Charlie. Only Wendi was present and she's putting the nasty spin on it ' They didn't even hug the boys.' etc

I wouldn't be surprised if Wendi also said the same. ' accidentally' in earshot of the boys. Whoops!
She's a master at alienation. She's exploited the kids for so many years. ( Even now in 2023, she won't contact Charlie herself but she'll let Ben do it. Kinda convenient)

No I meant after she served him papers and moved out of the family home. Her parents helped her move out. That her parents were there to help her. I didn’t say she went to live with them in my comment, but yes, there was some confusion over this bc it was reported she went back to S FL for 2 weeks and even longer without DM knowing where they were.

Yes, you were right. Tamara Demko also told Isom a similar version to Tally Democrat's account - that the parents helped her move out of Trescott in 2012. I imagine that the details around this will come into Donna's trial, if the state can find a direct witness.

I’m almost sure from Phil’s victim statement, that the amount of times the M’s saw the boys , and length of the visits,and the fact they were never left alone with the boys, was due to Wendi’s control.

Totally agree. Curtailing a visit to strictly 1 short hour is guaranteed to make a visit with estranged grandparents more awkward and less natural. In an hour, and one where Wendi is watching like a hawk, there's no scope to treat them, say, a kids' beach activity and then take the boys for ice cream or whatever and then start to relax into it. ( Also, Phil Markel has access to or owns a huge house in Sth FL, one with a pool etc.)
Wendi knows exactly what she's doing.

I hope all Wendi's loyal pals- the child psychologists, social workers and advocates - are good with enabling this long-drawn out torture of the kids. ( To me, not challenging her when she discusses it, is enabling)

 

[stamplewie]

I don’t think she’s 24 now. They had their child in 2018. I think she was 24 when they started dating. He talks about it in one of the calls, how he is mad that Georgia tried to make a big deal out of their age difference, but he thinks he did a good job handlijg those questions. I believe he said she WAS 24 when they met, and he was in his late 30’s.

i stand corrected. i didn't realize his testimony regarding her age was when they met and not present day. thank you.

 

[amicuscurie]

I’m not sure there is a phone record of Wendi speaking to Donna that morning is there?

Yes. There’s a call to Donna, or from Donna, around 8am.

 

[Niner]

This bolded quote was posted elsewhere but is it accurate and does anyone remember in which call it took place ?

Charlie explicitly says Wendi “couldn’t help herself going over to the crime scene AFTER talking with both of us”

If true, the door is closing on Wendi ...

I have to say - you all are good at picking apart the phone calls - using this one above as an example. Someone should tell Cappellman to read this thread for which calls to play in court!

 

[amicuscurie]

In general yes I agree but in that call, which @BUF linked to, it's Donna's retelling the visit to Charlie. Only Wendi was present and she's putting the nasty spin on it ' They didn't even hug the boys.' etc

I wouldn't be surprised if Wendi also said the same. ' accidentally' in earshot of the boys. Whoops!
She's a master at alienation. She's exploited the kids for so many years. ( Even now in 2023, she won't contact Charlie herself but she'll let Ben do it. Kinda convenient)


Yes, you were right. Tamara Demko also told Isom a similar version to Tally Democrat's account - that the parents helped her move out of Trescott in 2012. I imagine that the details around this will come into Donna's trial, if the state can find a direct witness.

Totally agree. Curtailing a visit to strictly 1 short hour is guaranteed to make a visit with estranged grandparents more awkward and less natural. In an hour, and one where Wendi is watching like a hawk, there's no scope to treat them, say, a kids' beach activity and then take the boys for ice cream or whatever and then start to relax into it. ( Also, Phil Markel has access to or owns a huge house in Sth FL, one with a pool etc.)
Wendi knows exactly what she's doing.

I hope all Wendi's loyal pals- the child psychologists, social workers and advocates - are good with enabling this long-drawn out torture of the kids. ( To me, not challenging her when she discusses it, is enabling)

Listen to how Donna talks about the Markels, she seems to me to want to make them out to be terrible people who don’t care about their grandchildren. In my opinion it is not unreasonable to believe Wendi describes them to her friends this way as well.

 

[Misy]

Another websleuther brought up earlier today Wendy giving too much detail in the first interview. For example, When asked when is the last time she saw Dan, she talked and talked about everything she did for the past two weeks. When she was finally finished the detective asked…. So when did you last see Dan. It reminded me of her banana bread. She gives too much info when lying.

Also on court tv they had a body language expert who said her chest heaving is more indicative of anxiety. If she was mourning or deeply sad it comes from the core and weighs you down. Just found both interesting and something I missed the first few times watching her initial interview.

I watch that police interview a lot. Every time I hear something I didn’t notice before. Like yes! She gives way too much details. Someone yesterday also commented on her immediate breaking down when Isom told her Danny had been shot but didn’t provide any details. She had a contentious relationship with Danny. Her reaction was way over the top, and she didn’t ask questions right away (at least that I would have) like … what?? Where? Was it a robbery? Etc. always thought that seemed like her “great” acting. It also is so interesting when her friend Jane comes in, WA goes into her alibi unprompted. That would have come eventually but it was one of the first things she wanted to get out there. And then how Jeff L was brought up by Jane … she said he was a colleague of hers. In his interview JL said Jane was one of his doctoral students. I thought that was funny and wonder what their relationship is like now, now that he knows she urged Isom to look at him (they were supposed friends and she set up WA and JL). ALSO … regarding the boys names, in that interview WA is telling the victim advocate about the boys and how she recently talked with them about death…and says that Lincoln is named after DA’s mom … maybe a middle name? I have to listen again. But I thought about her changing their last names and also removing one of their middle names that was in honor of DM’s family. (Wish GC had asked her why remove the middle name…. It couldn’t have been for “safety” like her explanation for the last name change. We all know why. GC does too. But I would love to have her be asked and see how she could try to wiggle her way out of that one). There’s more… that police interview is a treasure trove. JMO

 

[amicuscurie]

I watch that police interview a lot. Every time I hear something I didn’t notice before. Like yes! She gives way too much details. Someone yesterday also commented on her immediate breaking down when Isom told her Danny had been shot but didn’t provide any details. She had a contentious relationship with Danny. Her reaction was way over the top, and she didn’t ask questions right away (at least that I would have) like … what?? Where? Was it a robbery? Etc. always thought that seemed like her “great” acting. It also is so interesting when her friend Jane comes in, WA goes into her alibi unprompted. That would have come eventually but it was one of the first things she wanted to get out there. And then how Jeff L was brought up by Jane … she said he was a colleague of hers. In his interview JL said Jane was one of his doctoral students. I thought that was funny and wonder what their relationship is like now, now that he knows she urged Isom to look at him (they were supposed friends and she set up WA and JL). ALSO … regarding the boys names, in that interview WA is telling the victim advocate about the boys and how she recently talked with them about death…and says that Lincoln is named after DA’s mom … maybe a middle name? I have to listen again. But I thought about her changing their last names and also removing one of their middle names that was in honor of DM’s family. (Wish GC had asked her why remove the middle name…. It couldn’t have been for “safety” like her explanation for the last name change. We all know why. GC does too. But I would love to have her be asked and see how she could try to wiggle her way out of that one). There’s more… that police interview is a treasure trove. JMO

Lincoln may very well be named after DA’s mom. His middle name wasn’t the one changed. It was the older son’s middle name that was changed.

The older son’s middle name was after Dan’s family, although I believe there may also have been some reference to someone in Wendi’s family as well with that choice of middle name. (I believe I saw somewhere that Dan talks about the reasons for that middle name choice on his Prawfs Blawg). Wendi at one of the trials said that “both families lost an honor that day,” when she changed the middle name of the older boy. I do not understand why “safety” would necessitate changing the middle name. It’s possible she just didn’t like the name.

I noticed that when Jane walks in Wendi immediately goes into what seems to me like a long detailed speech about her actions that morning, including the fact that she drove down Trescott, saw the tape, and thought it was a downed tree. At one point she says “I wasn’t thinking, like, that’s the house,” which to me suggests that she saw that the tape was in front of a house.

 

[JerseyPride]

I have to say - you all are good at picking apart the phone calls - using this one above as an example. Someone should tell Cappellman to read this thread for which calls to play in court!

Again, as others have pointed out, this is simply CA quoting Cappelman as opposed to him making a statement of his own belief.

 

[clearskies1]

I haven't seen any recordings/videos of LE interviews of Dan's parents after the murder. I'm pretty sure that in her police interview Wendi stated that the Markels will think she was behind the shooting. I'm sure a lot of the info that LE obtained from the Markels came through Dan (hearsay), but would be interesting to know what the Markels told LE. JMO.

 

[Missyrocks5]

I am sitting here jaw agape because I was just reading how WA had the support of Mike Fernandez, a billionaire in Miami, who hired her, and was very vocal in his support of her. I don't know how I missed that all this time later. He even went on to say how they investigated her, and there was no evidence when he hired her, I think it was in 2017. I believe she then moved onto another job that is great with a wealthy guy running that group.

The really amazing part was to see that they said, and maybe you all here know if it's true or not, that the boyfriend, George, that we heard about on the tapes is Mike Fernandez's son. Is it no wonder they are in no rush to charge Wendi with these rich and powerful people backing her? This is insane.

How is it possible that she is living her best life with the support of all of these really important people who don't see what we all see? Also, I think that is the reason why the state is going to be very hesitant, unless they REALLY have the goods on her. At least, based on what we know, the case against her is inferential evidence. Maybe the seizure of the devices recently will yield more, but this woman has managed to ingratiate herself with really important people. She got everything she wanted, has all kinds of money from death benefits, she has one great job after the next, & one really rich & influential boyfriend after the next. I don't think she loses any sleep over what has happened with her family either.

 

[amicuscurie]

Again, as others have pointed out, this is simply CA quoting Cappelman as opposed to him making a statement of his own belief.

He seems to do this a lot, he talks like he’s saying what another person would or should be saying, but he doesn’t expressly say that. You hear it in the Dolce Vita tape as well when he seems to be suggesting they kill the blackmailer, but the way I hear it, he is actually saying that the blackmailer should be thinking he had better kill Sigfredo. What he says is, “you’d better kill him,” and without the whole context and prior reference to what the blackmailer may be thinking, it can be difficult to parse exactly who he is suggesting kill who. On these calls, he seems to be putting words in the mouths of the jury, or Georgia, but he never explicitly says he’s quoting them. He also inserts many digressions and non-sequiturs about someone else, and then goes back to his original thought. Reading the transcripts, which don’t put any punctuation or quotes when he talks, makes it difficult to understand, for me anyway. You have to listen to the whole thing, unfortunately, to make sense of it. Otherwise you have these statements which, taken at face value and in a vacuum, seem incriminating, like “she couldn’t help herself,” etc.

 

[amicuscurie]

I haven't seen any recordings/videos of LE interviews of Dan's parents after the murder. I'm pretty sure that in her police interview Wendi stated that the Markels will think she was behind the shooting. I'm sure a lot of the info that LE obtained from the Markels came through Dan (hearsay), but would be interesting to know what the Markels told LE. JMO.

In Ruth’s book she says they did speak to the police after the murder, she doesn’t say what they talked about or anything.

 

[nodamselindistress]

Just a reminder about Wendi's reactions when first hearing the news about DM - she had already received a voice mail from her realtor mentioning a shooting on Trescott, so she new the "what" and the "where" already once Isom confirmed that was why they had brought her in. He then went on to confirm DM had been shot and was in the hospital and not expected to survive.

 

[amicuscurie]

I am sitting here jaw agape because I was just reading how WA had the support of Mike Fernandez, a billionaire in Miami, who hired her, and was very vocal in his support of her. I don't know how I missed that all this time later. He even went on to say how they investigated her, and there was no evidence when he hired her, I think it was in 2017. I believe she then moved onto another job that is great with a wealthy guy running that group.

The really amazing part was to see that they said, and maybe you all here know if it's true or not, that the boyfriend, George, that we heard about on the tapes is Mike Fernandez's son. Is it no wonder they are in no rush to charge Wendi with these rich and powerful people backing her? This is insane.

How is it possible that she is living her best life with the support of all of these really important people who don't see what we all see? Also, I think that is the reason why the state is going to be very hesitant, unless they REALLY have the goods on her. At least, based on what we know, the case against her is inferential evidence. Maybe the seizure of the devices recently will yield more, but this woman has managed to ingratiate herself with really important people. She got everything she wanted, has all kinds of money from death benefits, she has one great job after the next, & one really rich & influential boyfriend after the next. I don't think she loses any sleep over what has happened with her family either.

It has not been confirmed anywhere that Wendi is dating Mike Fernandez’s son, there is no evidence for that, it seems to be just a rumor that has sprung up very recently and I do not believe it is true. According to Wikipedia, Mike Fernandez does have a son named George, but I believe that this is not the same person. It should be noted that the names George/Jorge, and Fernandez are extremely common, especially in MiamI. If you looked in a Miami phone book for a George/Jorge Fernandez, there would be many pages. It’s like John Smith.

 

[Missyrocks5]

Jorge, the boyfriend, is NOT Mike Fernandez’s son. That is a rumor. Mike Fernandez does have a son named George, but this is not the same person. It should be noted that the names George/Jorge, and Fernandez are extremely common, especially in MiamI. If you looked in a Miami phone book for a George Fernandez, there would be many pages.

Ok, thank you. But just the father backing her is beyond unbelievable. He is beyond powerful and well-known in South Florida like you cannot imagine. Well, I guess you can imagine since he is a billionaire. It is beyond me how in the world he would choose this woman as someone that he should be supporting. He went out on a limb for her giving statements when they had the dateline episode on years ago, and in hiring her. Why on earth would someone like that do that?

It really made me go beyond to think she is dating a billionaire's son now, but the truth is, even if it's a different wealthy boyfriend, she has led nothing but a charmed life since all of this happened.

 

[amicuscurie]

Just a reminder about Wendi's reactions when first hearing the news about DM - she had already received a voice mail from her realtor mentioning a shooting on Trescott, so she new the "what" and the "where" already once Isom confirmed that was why they had brought her in. He then went on to confirm DM had been shot and was in the hospital and not expected to survive.

I get that, but if it was me even in that situation, I think it would take me a while to put it together and I’d probably be saying “What?“ a lot and asking how it happened, confirming that this is the same shooting the realtor was talking about, etc. But that’s just me.