FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *4 Guilty* #23

[Zedzded]

Jansen then raised the issue of Katie's lawyers doing the same thing.

People were discussing why KM did not take the plea deal offered to her by the prosecution. Some were saying it was nonsensical and illogical that her legal team, Kawass and DeCoste, would advise her not to take the plea deal. She would be a free woman, of course they would advise her to take it. They duty is to their client, to represent them to the best of their ability and to act in their best interests. And I did agree with that. However after seeing TK's IG posts on Fanci Fiction's YT channel I actually have a different take on it.

Kawass is a highly skilled and experienced defence attorney. She knows the law. Sure she would listen to her client, understand their plight, the adversity they've faced, the bad hand they've been dealt and might sympathise and empathise. But TK is not stupid. She knows clients lie to their attorneys and she understood the highly incriminating evidence that implicated KM. Yet she went on this moral crusade, campaigning against the injustice that "plagued" her client, stating:

"There is no logical reason why a single mother of two with no criminal history whatsoever would reject that plea if she were guilty."

Yet she did reject it and she is guilty. So why? I believe Kawass pressured KM into rejecting the plea deal for her own selfish reasons. What a great story, working class single mother of two, jailed for a crime she didn't commit, but freed by her attorney who never gave up fighting for her. Kawass saw fame and fortune. She was going to be the next Johnnie Cochran. Instead of thinking about her defence strategy she was thinking about what to wear on to the Oprah Winfrey show.

She knew KM was guilty, a 5 year old could have determined that, but a plea deal didn't fit in with her plan, didn't give her her 15 minutes of fame. There was no way she was going to let KM accept that deal. She would have sold this story to KM, convincing her she would walk out of court a free woman, hand in hand with the heroic lawyer who saved her life. Finally vindicated.

Ironically Kawass's self serving campaign against injustice saw justice being served. Her guilty client was jailed and I hope Kawass can take some comfort now as I'm assuming her faith in the justice is now restored. #sarcasm

"These cases are the ones that make me lose faith in the justice system."

I wonder if the irony is lost on her. If Kawass had pushed KM to take the deal, she would be a free woman and justice would not have been served, so by pressuring her client not to take the deal, she ensured justice was ultimately served.
(my post from Reddit).

 

[Knitpicker]

The TV was some form of alibi reinforced by DA using TV as code in a later phone call, "this TV is 5." But it's nonsensical and completely superfluous, they didn't need to do it which is confusing. But then narcissists and sociopaths don't think like you and I.The Adelsons are grandiose narcissists and I think they thought the more elaborate and ingenius the murder plot was the better it would be. It would serve as an exemplification of how smart they were. No-one else would be capable of planning a murder in such a way.

So what purpose the the TV repair serve. IMO the hit was supposed to happen earlier and the TV repair was supposed to take longer. DM dropped the kids off around 9am and I think WA believed he would then go home. He wasn't due at work that morning. So if he gets home at 9.15am and is murdered then that would be at a similar time the TV was being repaired. However he went to the gym and the TV could not be repaired. And I think this is why WA phoned CA for 18 minutes and according to the repair guy was visibly upset. The plan had gone awry. The TV could not be repaired and repair guy was going and CA had said that KM phoned him to say that SG/lR said DM was now at the gym, not on his way home.

The moronic thing about this elaborate plan is all WA had to do is go to the shops where there would be a multitude of CCTC cameras.

The other suggestion is that CA and DA wanted to keep WA at home whilst the murder was taking place. Knowing she was highly impulsive and irrational she might rush to the murder scene to check if he had been murdered and be spotted by the police, which she did..... as GC said and as CA reiterated on the jailhouse call, "she just couldn't help herself."

But Dan left her a voice mail at 9:02 or so saying he was going to the gym and would be done around 10:30, so she knew where he was until that time.he wanted to walk around FSU and discuss the school issues and also pick the boys up to take them swimming at 3:30.

 

[Knitpicker]

I actually think JL was wrong, everything else he said was right. A kid throwing a game controller at a screen would break it. I think from memory it was broken back in March.

No, he said at trial the week of June 11-16 (I may be off a day or two but it was a month prior)

 

[Knitpicker]

So does anybody have a theory about how the TV got broken? LaCasse testified that it looked as if someone rammed a heavy object into it, as I recall, and that it did not look like a child could have done it. So, assuming LaCasse is telling the truth, any ideas on who might have done that? Harvey? Wendi? He said it looked like it took a lot of force, as I recall. It would be difficult for me to imagine an adult coming over to the house and slamming an object into the TV without Wendi knowing it. What would this person’s explanation have been as to why they did that (assuming Wendi didn’t know about the murder plot)? Could she have broken it herself?

As I recall, LaCasse testified that she did not want him to get another one, nor did she want to try to hook the DVD player up to a different one she had. He testified that she said it wouldn’t work on the other TV. Could this have been a way to have a witness (LaCasse) to the fact that it was broken and needed to be repaired? Is that why she may have been so insistent that no other TV would work? Seems like if it was the intent to make LaCasse a witness, it backfired, because he testified that he found the whole thing odd and that it didn’t look like the boys could have done it.

If I recall correctly LaCasse wasn’t asked, and didn’t say, what Wendi told him about how the TV got broken. Did he? Wouldn’t she have told him something?

When did LaCasse say this whole thing happened?

He said on the stand that it was June 11-16 if I remember right. I know it was one month before the murder. People think it was March because strangely, Wendi said on the stand Something like “well, if the TV was broken in March”….an answer to something GC questioned her on.

 

[amicuscurie]

But Dan left her a voice mail at 9:02 or so saying he was going to the gym and would be done around 10:30, so she knew where he was until that time.he wanted to walk around FSU and discuss the school issues and also pick the boys up to take them swimming at 3:30.

Yes, and, she has consistently denied having received his message.

 

[amicuscurie]

He said on the stand that it was June 11-16 if I remember right. I know it was one month before the murder. People think it was March because strangely, Wendi said on the stand Something like “well, if the TV was broken in March”….an answer to something GC questioned her on.

That’s only a month before the murder. The evidence was that she went back and forth to South Florida a couple of times in June/July, as I recall, and her parents usually drove back and forth with her. And Jeff testifies that he saw that the TV was broken during this same period.

 

[Zedzded]

Yes, and, she has consistently denied having received his message.

Looking at the call log, there seems to be an unusual pattern or lack of a pattern. Phone calls at certain times and then radio silence. The inference being it seems, perhaps, they were using a combination of phone/sms and whatsapp with the latter not apperaring on the call log.

 

[Knitpicker]

That’s only a month before the murder. The evidence was that she went back and forth to South Florida a couple of times in June/July, as I recall, and her parents usually drove back and forth with her. And Jeff testifies that he saw that the TV was broken during this same period.

He definitely said it was in one particular week in June. He was asked on the stand when the TV got broken

 

[Knitpicker]

Yes, and, she has consistently denied having received his message.

When did she say she heard the message?

 

[Zedzded]

When did she say she heard the message?

In the police interview.

 

[cottonweaver]

When was WA having dinner with her parents? Now her arrest is looking likely, she needs to not be estranged from her Dad. She has already forked out close to (rumoured) $500k in legal fees and has not even been arrested yet... so hidden agenda on her part.

According to the planner, these family dinners in 2022 & 2023 seemed to happen every Sunday. IDK who hosted. ( I was just surprised cause I'd previously bought into the ' Wendi is estranged' rumours so whenever there was a reference in Mentour's talk- throughs, I put it into the WS posts)

Obviously IDK re status of her current relationship with HA. I heard STS Joel say that she has been spending more time with Harvey since DA arrest. ( Not that I believe either HA or DA would ever flip on Wendi in any circumstances.) IDK if this Texas move is real or not but Dad doesn't appear to be selling his apartment in order to accompany her? Not listed? ( I haven't checked.) Do you know whether Harvey has been making calls to jail to speak to Donna? Or is he using Rash as the conduit/ 3 way speaker-phone calls instead?

Re DR. He sold CA down the river. He knew CA was screwed, but he's a used car salesman.

Hard agree.
I forced myself to listen to every jail call last year - listening to those is depressing! Anyway, in those you can hear him BS-ing his son on the appeal's prospects too. Although he's very quiet most of the time on the speaker phone calls - literally the background guy - it's interesting when he does interject.

re your other points about Charlie being oversold on his chances, yes I can remember his face during jury selection phase. Smiling, laughing in the photos.

Re CA being scr/ewed now, I wonder how he views it all? Has to be bitter? and if I was Charlie & I saw that photo of my sis swanning around Miami, post-gym on the day I was convicted I would not be happy. Another sucker-punch

Side issue but re the general topic of rumour vs fact. I was surprised to learn that Donna had initially planned to attend her son's trial. ( It's in that WS post, a few pages back ' Open toe or closed toe" , from Mentour Lawyer's planner review)

 

[Zedzded]

According to the planner, these family dinners in 2022 & 2023 seemed to happen every Sunday. IDK who hosted. ( I was just surprised cause I'd previously bought into the ' Wendi is estranged' rumours so whenever there was a reference in Mentour's talk- throughs, I put it into the WS posts)

Obviously IDK re status of her current relationship with HA. I heard STS Joel say that she has been spending more time with Harvey since DA arrest. ( Not that I believe either HA or DA would ever flip on Wendi in any circumstances.) IDK if this Texas move is real or not but Dad doesn't appear to be selling his apartment in order to accompany her? Not listed? ( I haven't checked.) Do you know whether Harvey has been making calls to jail to speak to Donna? Or is he using Rash as the conduit/ 3 way speaker-phone calls instead?

With WA's sky-rocketing legal costs especially with an imminent arrest she has no choice, but to ensure she has some kind of relationship with her Dad. She has money, but she will go through $2 million with her trial and appeal. She's already blown $500k+. I would say her lawyer has said distance yourself from your family as much as possible.

Most of DA's calls have been to two people, Bree and HA. He's been speaking to her quite a bit.

 

[Zedzded]

Re CA being scr/ewed now, I wonder how he views it all? Has to be bitter? and if I was Charlie & I saw that photo of my sis swanning around Miami, post-gym on the day I was convicted I would not be happy. Another sucker-punch

The Adelsons are very prone to bitterness, especially considering the Ponzi scheme that took all their life savings. In fact I think this was the catalyst for them morphing into fully fledged sociopaths, they were left that embittered. So yeah CA's bitterness would be all consuming. I think he was surprised he had not heard from WA, hence the question immediately after his conviction, "how's Wendi holding up?" She couldn't give 2 $%!# about her brothers conviction. She saw him in court when she proclaimed how close they were, then promptly returned to Miami and has not seen, spoken or written to him since.

 

[cottonweaver]

Any ideas as to why the State has not, since November 2023, already subpoena'd Donna's provider for her landline & cell records?
Do they think they don't need them and just expected to rely on the Cellebrite extraction of her cell?

second, why did Defense wait until the end of June to raise this? Also, they don't want a hearing


It's one of today's filing's -

Defense claims ' apparently this was not seized and preserved'

(IMO It would have been apparent in discovery months ago. AFAIK, back in March 2024)

https://cvweb.leonclerk.com/public/online_services/search_courts/image_orders.asp?caseid=3141025&jiscaseid=1513052&defseq=&chargeseq=1&dktid=47552844&dktsource=JIS&sexual_case=

Also, IIRC from the last status hearing, the discovery deadline isn't met yet in any case. Could it be the Defense just playing games? Obviously IANAL so appreciate any suggestions as to why they filed this

replying to self just because this has now been granted by Judge Everett

So obviously the state hadn't requested the full AT&T records? There must be a reason for that but IDK. Any ideas?



If you want to see other recent filings, just go to LCC website LeonClerk.com , search for Adelson's ( in criminal cases) and click on Donna's case. All the motions will come up and all the deadlines.

If this move by Defense really is - as per general speculation - a delay-seeking exercise - why does it advantage Donna to get a delay?

Leon County Clerk Of Courts Public Web Site

 

[cottonweaver]

The Adelsons are very prone to bitterness, especially considering the Ponzi scheme that took all their life savings. In fact I think this was the catalyst for them morphing into fully fledged sociopaths, they were left that embittered. So yeah CA's bitterness would be all consuming. I think he was surprised he had not heard from WA, hence the question immediately after his conviction, "how's Wendi holding up?" She couldn't give 2 $%!# about her brothers conviction. She saw him in court when she proclaimed how close they were, then promptly returned to Miami and has not seen, spoken or written to him since.

yes that's classic Charlie to Donna sub text material. Fishing, never direct.
I guess his Mom understood the real question - ' Why hasn't Wendi called to ask how I'm holding up'

On the issue of whether she's spoken to him since, my interpretation is that she's done the covert call with CA via attorney - breaking the jail's rules on attorney/client jail communication. ( Donna hints at this in one of the old jail calls I posted here last week. DA says an ' arrangement' for WA to speak to her brother will need to be organised, in about ten days. DA is careful not to specify that arrangement cause she knows it's against the rules. IMO Wendi cannot afford to cut him loose completely.
(Also, if you recall the other jail recordings, CA is busy trying to get multiple lawyers accredited for ' private lines' for himself, whether he achieved that IDK but these covert calls don't have to be via Rashbaum who's no longer representing him. )

 

[Knitpicker]

In the police interview.

I’m talking about time-wise.

 

[amicuscurie]

According to the planner, these family dinners in 2022 & 2023 seemed to happen every Sunday. IDK who hosted. ( I was just surprised cause I'd previously bought into the ' Wendi is estranged' rumours so whenever there was a reference in Mentour's talk- throughs, I put it into the WS posts)

Obviously IDK re status of her current relationship with HA. I heard STS Joel say that she has been spending more time with Harvey since DA arrest. ( Not that I believe either HA or DA would ever flip on Wendi in any circumstances.) IDK if this Texas move is real or not but Dad doesn't appear to be selling his apartment in order to accompany her? Not listed? ( I haven't checked.) Do you know whether Harvey has been making calls to jail to speak to Donna? Or is he using Rash as the conduit/ 3 way speaker-phone calls instead?


Hard agree.
I forced myself to listen to every jail call last year - listening to those is depressing! Anyway, in those you can hear him BS-ing his son on the appeal's prospects too. Although he's very quiet most of the time on the speaker phone calls - literally the background guy - it's interesting when he does interject.

re your other points about Charlie being oversold on his chances, yes I can remember his face during jury selection phase. Smiling, laughing in the photos.

Re CA being scr/ewed now, I wonder how he views it all? Has to be bitter? and if I was Charlie & I saw that photo of my sis swanning around Miami, post-gym on the day I was convicted I would not be happy. Another sucker-punch

Side issue but re the general topic of rumour vs fact. I was surprised to learn that Donna had initially planned to attend her son's trial. ( It's in that WS post, a few pages back ' Open toe or closed toe" , from Mentour Lawyer's planner review)

Yep. I’ve seen another one reminding Harvey to “try on trial suit.” To me it seems like they were planning to go. Maybe the whole fight over their depositions made them angry and decide against it, or maybe they were advised against it. They were very close to being held in contempt, as I recall. Or were they actually held in contempt? I don’t remember.

 

[amicuscurie]

With WA's sky-rocketing legal costs especially with an imminent arrest she has no choice, but to ensure she has some kind of relationship with her Dad. She has money, but she will go through $2 million with her trial and appeal. She's already blown $500k+. I would say her lawyer has said distance yourself from your family as much as possible.

Most of DA's calls have been to two people, Bree and HA. He's been speaking to her quite a bit.

I keep coming back to the way WA appears to me to be living very modestly, no separate bedrooms for the boys, no private school. Could it be that her lawyers have advised her not to take money from the parents? Or that she has distanced herself in this manner? It is strange, as the records we have seen appear to me to reflect that the Adelsons were capable of making 12 cash payments of 50k for their Vietnam villa. 50k is year if private school where I come from. There’s one entry in Donna’s calendar that says to buy one of the boys a mouth guard, but that’s all I’ve seen with respect to paying for anything for them. (W can’t afford a mouth guard?). And Donna does note all kinds of payments for Charlie, his commissary, his house, child support to Bri, and a Schwab fund for Roman. Could W have been advised not to take money from them? She has a different lawyer, and her text to her mother references the fact that her mother didn’t always agree with his advice.

 

[amicuscurie]

I’m talking about time-wise.

It’s confusing. At one point Isom says to her “so you were going to talk to Dan at 11:45,” and she says “that’s what I thought but when we listened to the message” it said he was leaving the gym at 10:30, so she must have planned to talk to him then. “When we listened to the message” indicates to me that maybe she listened to it with the cop who picked her up, but it’s very unclear. She did say she did not hear the message come in. And what is also strange is that her argument with Dan over swimming, if I recall correctly, seems to me to have taken place around 9:15, just after he would have arrived at the gym (and after he left the message). Did she not see the message on her phone during that exchange? Did he leave the message on a landline? To me there are many confusing elements in her police interview that may be significant and may shed light on her behavior that morning.

 

[Knitpicker]

It’s confusing. At one point Isom says to her “so you were going to talk to Dan at 11:45,” and she says “that’s what I thought but when we listened to the message” it said he was leaving the gym at 10:30, so she must have planned to talk to him then. “When we listened to the message” indicates to me that maybe she listened to it with the cop who picked her up, but it’s very unclear. She did say she did not hear the message come in. And what is also strange is that her argument with Dan over swimming, if I recall correctly, seems to me to have taken place around 9:15, just after he would have arrived at the gym (and after he left the message). Did she not see the message on her phone during that exchange? Did he leave the message on a landline? To me there are many confusing elements in her police interview that may be significant and may shed light on her behavior that morning.

Wow I must be really losing my mind,
I thought the “we listened to it” was about the realtor. I must have listened to that interview in full at least 6 times!
Yes, I just assumed she had listened to it and purposely ignored it.
There were things to discuss with him that were pressing and she just waited until the hit men were there.
She was picked up at 2:15 or so which was an hour and 15 min’s away from when he wanted to pick the boys up to go swimming,.
And it was Friday and they had to make the decision about the older boy.
So it didn’t seem important to call him to ask “I called you at 11:45 and you never called me back”
I wonder how long she would have sat having lunch if Isom didnt get her when he did. Imagine if she is still sitting there close to 3.
Would have been better for the state…”Didn’t you think it important to call Danny to see why he didn’t call you back”..”Didn’t he need to talk with you”?