FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *4 Guilty* #23

[Knitpicker]

I don't have all 3 testimonies to hand - to link & timestamp & then compare but
In Trial 2 he says
'June 28th. we had a relationship conflict ... I don't know if argument is the right word ... I was tired of being strung along and we sort of had it out...'



Trial 2, at 16.16

That's right though, he did describe her response as you state - I just don't know which trial that was. He's also said that she ' decompensated ' Trial 3.
( He's not a clinical psych but he does have experience in related fields on his cv, and in hospitals IIRC. That stood out for me because of previous references to her mental health over the years. )


Anyway, if he'd been terrifying explosive, with loud scary yelling , out of control why would you maintain contact through the Miami fortnight and want to meet up for a dinner date mid July and then follow that up with an invite to yoga?

She did also push ' Danny was emotionally abusive' pretty hard

It is very hard to understand the effect that W had on Jeffrey LaCasse.
Especially since he is a PHD in social work and should know better,

 

[Knitpicker]

@GoingRogue , yes I understand that point

1/ But am gonna have to disagree re that because taking liberties is an intentional act rather than mistaken belief
You posted that Jeff ..



2/ Do you still think Jeff gave false information re that specific topic of date of departure? ( Set aside any issue of what he believes or his intent)
Do you still think that...




Anyway, I tried to separate each item into separate WS posts so that they're easier for anybody to tackle or dispute.
As the saying goes ' ...keep me honest'

Overall going through all the Jeff videos?
Boring.
but obviously important. Taking 'liberties' on oath is important

While I have always thought that Jeff does some speculating and wondering during his police interviews when nobody knows the truth and the whole point is an investigation to explore the facts - but NB he's not under oath - like most of us would in his position, I don't see that the police interviews damaging his credibility as a trial witness.

Sorry, haven't yet had time to read anybody else's posts spring boarding off the back of my initial queries to GoingRogue, so apologies for that.

-------
second upside

Was good to review the tapes though - I've not watched them in years.

Reviewing the tapes was also a useful reminder re stuff I'd forgotten
eg JL tells Isom that when WA used to bemoan Tally and her being forced to be in Tally, she used to say she could only leave Tally if something happened to Danny. I'll leave that for a separate post for others to explore.

This may not be the right comment to respond to, but I went back over many of Mentours videos trying to find when Jeffrey spoke to Wendi about his plans to go to Tennessee, and I found a video where Mentour has a list for Jeffrey and its stated there that on June 10th, Jeffrey told Wendi he was going to Tennessee on July 18th at 11:00 AM.
Do not know the source where ML got that info.

“Markel Murder-Timeline of coincidences-so far” 10/2/2019 Mentour Lawyer
@ 43 second mark

 

[cottonweaver]

@Knitpicker ,
thanks
but just to save time, do you mean 2:45 when you say ' @:45 mark' or at 45 mins?

 

[cottonweaver]

It is very hard to understand the effect that W had on Jeffrey LaCasse.
Especially since he is a PHD in social work and should know better,

Don't get me wrong. A couple of days ago on WS I was appraising him as a witness not as boyfriend material. (Not my kind of guy either. OTOH I can imagine why she might be disappointed re Sack moving on.)

Second, love is blind. Not sure that having that PhD/SWork is a shield against falling in love/lust although it appears that not long after the real relationship starts( March) the scales start dropping ( June)
As the song goes ' Ever fallen in love with somebody you shouldn't have fallen in love with?

Third, I'm aware of a lot of crit of Jeff in the DM case community but I think that equally, people could make the case that he's another victim. ( A victim in the fallout from this crime. Any crime -immediate direct victims. Indirect victims ripples from the pebble dropped in the pool)

 

[Knitpicker]

Don't get me wrong. A couple of days ago on WS I was appraising him as a witness not as boyfriend material. (Not my kind of guy either. OTOH I can imagine why she might be disappointed re Sack moving on.)

Second, love is blind. Not sure that having that PhD/SWork is a shield against falling in love/lust although it appears that not long after the real relationship starts( March) the scales start dropping ( June)
As the song goes ' Ever fallen in love with somebody you shouldn't have fallen in love with?

Third, I'm aware of a lot of crit of Jeff in the DM case community but I think that equally, people could make the case that he's another victim. ( A victim in the fallout from this crime. Any crime -immediate direct victims. Indirect victims ripples from the pebble dropped in the

I wasn’t relating anything I said to anything you said.
I have always said he was a victim. It’s still hard to believe bc of the field that he is in that he can be swayed by her.
He would have more training to recognize her for what she was. He knew she was “cheating on him” and using him.
It’s an observation not really a criticism.
The truth is that he could have saved Dan’s life by alerting LE.
Anyway, I hope my other post on Jeffrey re: date he told her about the trip is helpful.

 

[Knitpicker]

@Knitpicker ,
thanks
but just to save time, do you mean 2:45 when you say ' @:45 mark' or at 45 mins?

43 seconds. I doubted myself when you asked lol
Theres a page that he has (moving around) so you may have to go a bit back. The page is on the screen for awhile Thx

 

[Knitpicker]

@Knitpicker ,
thanks
but just to save time, do you mean 2:45 when you say ' @:45 mark' or at 45 mins?

43 seconds lol.(actually you can see it starting at 6 seconds-page is jumping around and stays on the screen) I was right the first time!

 

[iamshadow21]

I wasn’t relating anything I said to anything you said.
I have always said he was a victim. It’s still hard to believe bc of the field that he is in that he can be swayed by her.
He would have more training to recognize her for what she was. He knew she was “cheating on him” and using him.
It’s an observation not really a criticism.
The truth is that he could have saved Dan’s life by alerting LE.
Anyway, I hope my other post on Jeffrey re: date he told her about the trip is helpful.

People in all fields of specialty are vulnerable to manipulation and abuse in intimate relationships. Having an education or training doesn't remove that.

MOO

 

[Knitpicker]

People in all fields of specialty are vulnerable to manipulation and abuse in intimate relationships. Having an education or training doesn't remove that.

MOO

If I could delete that comment I would. I knew after sending it I would get backlash.
If I went to a mental health counselor for advice it could be compared to going to anyone in any medical field for advice.
I would hope their own personal decisions in their life would not interfere with their ability to help me.
Maybe that is more clear.
I have never seen you respond to any comments on this case here so apparently since you are an advocate for the mental health field, you reacted.
My parents Doctor in the 70’s was a severely overweight man who smoked as he saw patients.
It would be the same thing. Anyone who is helping others gain health ought to be an example for themselves.
I have been commenting on this case for years. Of course he was a victim. But he also was responsible for the decisions he made, and how those decisions affected others.
Many men I am sure who are not as educated as he was, would not have kept the relationship with Wendi going.
I am of the position that we are responsible for the decisions we make.

 

[iamshadow21]

If I could delete that comment I would. I knew after sending it I would get backlash.
If I went to a mental health counselor for advice it could be compared to going to anyone in any medical field for advice.
I would hope their own personal decisions in their life would not interfere with their ability to help me.
Maybe that is more clear.
I have never seen you respond to any comments on this case here so apparently since you are an advocate for the mental health field, you reacted.
My parents Doctor in the 70’s was a severely overweight man who smoked as he saw patients.
It would be the same thing. Anyone who is helping others gain health ought to be an example for themselves.
I have been commenting on this case for years. Of course he was a victim. But he also was responsible for the decisions he made, and how those decisions affected others.
Many men I am sure who are not as educated as he was, would not have kept the relationship with Wendi going.
I am of the position that we are responsible for the decisions we make.

I'm not a chatterbox, but I have commented here on occasion. I don't tend to say anything in a thread unless I feel I have something to contribute.

I commented because there are a lot of people who 'should know better' (your words) who don't seek help or don't tell people when they're in an abusive situation because they fear exactly that kind of reaction.

Anyone can find themselves in an abusive situation. Anyone.

MOO

 

[Knitpicker]

I'm not a chatterbox, but I have commented here on occasion. I don't tend to say anything in a thread unless I feel I have something to contribute.

I commented because there are a lot of people who 'should know better' (your words) who don't seek help or don't tell people when they're in an abusive situation because they fear exactly that kind of reaction.

Anyone can find themselves in an abusive situation. Anyone.

MOO

I know all about it. I grew up in an abusive home. I recognized it at a very young age and distanced myself from both my parents. So I am especially interested in the dynamics of this case. My personality did not allow myself to be controlled which made for more friction. Or it could have been from up above protecting me.

I’m sorry if you couldn’t see where I am coming from with my comment.
I am once again stating that this man was a PHD in mental health.
He is unlike the rest of us because of his training so it is very concerning to think that we may be going to get mental health care from someone who lacks the understanding of the kind of relationship he was in.
If she had not ended it, he could have married her, and I think he would have, based on his own testimony.
We are all subject to being deceived.

This in no way takes away from the fact that there are skilled manipulators who can fool even the most educated person. But I think we can still discuss it.

Lol- Am I a “chatterbox”?

 

[cottonweaver]

TPD interview from 22 July 2014, 8pm. ( Isom plus another LEO)
Greenbergs. ( Day after Dan's service, same day that the Adelsons leave Tally never to return)

Very interesting to finally see one of the full interviews with a couple who knew Dan Markel well.

' Show transcript ' has been enabled in case anybody finds it hard to follow.

 

[amicuscurie]

I wasn’t relating anything I said to anything you said.
I have always said he was a victim. It’s still hard to believe bc of the field that he is in that he can be swayed by her.
He would have more training to recognize her for what she was. He knew she was “cheating on him” and using him.
It’s an observation not really a criticism.
The truth is that he could have saved Dan’s life by alerting LE.
Anyway, I hope my other post on Jeffrey re: date he told her about the trip is helpful.

See, I find it totally believable that a social worker or someone in a helping profession would be swayed by her. This is a gross generalization, or course, but in my experience such people can be bleeding-heart types who care about people and want to help. Often, in my experience, they go into these fields because they themselves may have some trauma or psychological issues in their own past. They’re specifically and extensively trained to listen empathetically and reflect people’s feelings ( or what they say are their feelings) back to them. And we have seen that many of her friends were in these types of professions. Jane, for example. And the women she had lunch with that day were child psychologists. To me, it looks like she may have sought such people out. In my opinion someone like that would be very susceptible to a sob story from someone, hypothetically, and see them as a victim and want to help. Cops, and especially lawyers, by contrast, are trained to examine things logically and critically, and to spot lies and inconsistencies and potential issues. Dan, for example, according to Wendi, claimed that nobody else could see how bad she was except him, that she had fooled everyone else. This may be something Wendi told people for sympathy (this is something some abusers do tell their victims), but in this case, it may have been true, given that Dan was a lawyer and the other people she associated with were in helping fields.