FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *4 Guilty* #23

[cottonweaver]

I am mystified by the court room flip-flop, moving 4 times (no less) within few hours, from Room 3B to Room Z (Zoom) to Room 3B again, and finally to Room 3G (see below). A ruling squashing this defense “motion to restrict public access to a small court room” should be no-brainer.

After all, Court proceedings are official businesses of the Judiciary as a Third Branch of Government. If “undecided decision makers" (to remain polite) were to flip-flop on this, the State should move with a “counter motion” under the spirit of Florida’s Sunshine Law (Section 286.011, Florida Statutes).

Any lawyer in support of the public access interests should be able to file a friendly “amicus curiae” motion in support of the State and/or the Court for the largest Court room available to uphold the largest public access possible such that "The Sun Could Shine" lights on the criminals. Any of the YouTube lawyers deriving income from commenting about criminal proceedings should be in support of the public access interests!

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Apparently the room listings on Leon County website are being misinterpreted. Until the room change motion is heard it's a nothing burger. So let's see what the Judge decides. I still haven't come across a single credible lawyer - since July - who thought the room change motion would fly.

Locals who are familiar with the courthouse and the listings had already said, yesterday, that Everett's listings are often listed for courtroom B as default - it's just his designated court room. ( STS & Patty's Playhouse) Apparently, that is then often superseded by a real courtroom allocation.
STS confirmed that by calling the courthouse yesterday.

Ended up in a situation where there's been more online discussion these last few weeks about the room than the content in the motions

------
Anyway, here's a new STS episode.

Retired Judge Blitzmann remarks on ' provocative motions' which Everett might say are arguments about 'weight not the admissibility', at 28 mins below
( Also Brother Counsel Martin Radnor raises the issue of tactics of limiting testimony on call pattern evidence - and tactics to attempt keep out ' outside your house' etc as raised here on WS last week, WS page 38 re Tragos video. )

 

[jumpinjack]

It’s incredible that they would actually be able to sleep on the night they had DM murdered.
Charlie cuddled up with Katie & fell asleep the night of the murder & on direct he said he slept a bunch the next day as well. Far too upset to go to Dan's memorial & support his grieving nephews though.

 

[pseudo_hum]

IMO, The Adelson Crime Family are nothing more than selfish idiots, blinded by their desire to "get their way".
They decided the children's lives would be better off without a father.

 

[Zedzded]

They decided the children's lives would be better off without a father.

I don't think they thought the kids would be better off without a father. What the kids wanted or needed was irrelevant to them. DM was an inconvenience so they got rid of him.

 

[Knitpicker]

Apparently the room listings on Leon County website are being misinterpreted. Until the room change motion is heard it's a nothing burger. So let's see what the Judge decides. I still haven't come across a single credible lawyer - since July - who thought the room change motion would fly.

Locals who are familiar with the courthouse and the listings had already said, yesterday, that Everett's listings are often listed for courtroom B as default - it's just his designated court room. ( STS & Patty's Playhouse) Apparently, that is then often superseded by a real courtroom allocation.
STS confirmed that by calling the courthouse yesterday.

Ended up in a situation where there's been more online discussion these last few weeks about the room than the content in the motions

------
Anyway, here's a new STS episode.

Retired Judge Blitzmann remarks on ' provocative motions' which Everett might say are arguments about 'weight not the admissibility', at 28 mins below
( Also Brother Counsel Martin Radnor raises the issue of tactics of limiting testimony on call pattern evidence - and tactics to attempt keep out ' outside your house' etc as raised here on WS last week, WS page 38 re Tragos video. )

Louis Baptiste in Tallahassee has not doubt the trial will be in the large courtroom.

 

[Knitpicker]

I don't think they thought the kids would be better off without a father. What the kids wanted or needed was irrelevant to them. DM was an inconvenience so they got rid of him.

Narcissists care little about those around them. Other than what they get OUT of them.
Everyone in their lives is just a mirror in which they can view themselves.
Imo, Donna needed those children to satisfy her own need to control and manipulate.
Thats why i feel so sorry for the boys.
They were just a mirror in which Donna can see herself.
Wendi and all of Donnas kids were probably also used the same way.
Donna was proud of her accomplishments with her children.
It was a reflection on herself.
When the boys grew up, it shattered her reality..so her focus became then on Charlies son.
She may have chosen the field she did (although I understand she was a substitute teacher and never had her own class-you can be a sub without a teaching degree), because of her need to mold young lives.
Deep down, is a very insecure, wounded child.
Like with all narcissists.

 

[Knitpicker]

contact lawyer to lawyer ( ex in SY's case) feels right.

I hope that all of the community is reaching out to each other ( The old Tallahassee circles as well we the old Miami-based networks for DM & the Adelsons)

some of the SY content has to be inculpatory against Donna though - to be admitted as evidence- even though everybody seems focussed on Wendi again atm.

What's also surprised me is that the discovery deadline was previously listed as 22 August.
Also apparently, we're still missing the state's final witness list.

So, both SY and Snyder probably didn’t think their emails would be in evidence. Why do you think they even looked at these two’s emails? Do you think SY called LE? Its not as if the FBI can keep track or would of everyone the Adelsons know..right?

 

[cottonweaver]

So, both SY and Snyder probably didn’t think their emails would be in evidence. Why do you think they even looked at these two’s emails? Do you think SY called LE? Its not as if the FBI can keep track or would of everyone the Adelsons know..right?

Obviously I know as little as you. I was just imagining that one of them contacted the other quite recently( Item 4) with some extra intell.

but re Items 6, 3 & 5, maybe these had been given to the state years ago and they weren't relevant to the previous prosecutions but they were kept ' on file ' in case one of the subjects was prosecuted?

OTOH it could be as simple as 6,3,& 5 being 'late finds' by SY OR items only recently processed by State? ( Re former, imagine how many devices, emails & phones you've had over the last decade, then include the ones you used for work! If you were a former friend of WA / HA/ DA how would you get through it to find an old conversation ? Might need some technical help if you still have the hardware)

OR
Re the latter, imagine the huge amount of work that SAOffice has had to do over the last 8 months since Donna was arrested? I don't envy them

There's probably quite a mundane explanation but I'd rather it be something wilder than any of those above.

 

[amicuscurie]

So, both SY and Snyder probably didn’t think their emails would be in evidence. Why do you think they even looked at these two’s emails? Do you think SY called LE? Its not as if the FBI can keep track or would have everyone the Adelsons know..right?

Purely guessing, just my opinion, but I think it’s possible that after Charlie’s conviction and Donna’s arrest, SY contacted the attorney for the Markels because she wanted to share some emails she had. Those emails, in my opinion, could possibly have been something Wendi sent her after Charlie’s conviction and Donna’s arrest. OR, in my opinion, SY could possibly have seen the new evidence that was presented at Charlie’s trial which might possibly have seemed to her to implicate Wendi, such as the text to Dan asking if he would be home the week of the murder, for example, and it is possible she then decided that Wendi might possibly be more involved that she had thought, and so it is possible that she felt it important to share what she knew with the Markels through their attorney. Her December, 2023 email to Snyder, per this recent exhibit list, is described as “former friend of Wendi;” in my opinion it is possible that she may have wanted to communicate in that email that she was a former friend and had information she wanted to share. This is all speculative, and just my opinion.

 

[amicuscurie]

Apparently the room listings on Leon County website are being misinterpreted. Until the room change motion is heard it's a nothing burger. So let's see what the Judge decides. I still haven't come across a single credible lawyer - since July - who thought the room change motion would fly.

Locals who are familiar with the courthouse and the listings had already said, yesterday, that Everett's listings are often listed for courtroom B as default - it's just his designated court room. ( STS & Patty's Playhouse) Apparently, that is then often superseded by a real courtroom allocation.
STS confirmed that by calling the courthouse yesterday.

Ended up in a situation where there's been more online discussion these last few weeks about the room than the content in the motions

------
Anyway, here's a new STS episode.

Retired Judge Blitzmann remarks on ' provocative motions' which Everett might say are arguments about 'weight not the admissibility', at 28 mins below
( Also Brother Counsel Martin Radnor raises the issue of tactics of limiting testimony on call pattern evidence - and tactics to attempt keep out ' outside your house' etc as raised here on WS last week, WS page 38 re Tragos video. )

The other substantive motions, in my opinion, are way more important than the courtroom one, which in my opinion is only of interest to content creators.

 

[cottonweaver]

Purely guessing, just my opinion, but I think it’s possible that after Charlie’s conviction and Donna’s arrest, SY contacted the attorney for the Markels because she wanted to share some emails she had. Those emails, in my opinion, could possibly have been something Wendi sent her after Charlie’s conviction and Donna’s arrest. OR, in my opinion, SY could possibly have seen the new evidence that was presented at Charlie’s trial which might possibly have seemed to her to implicate Wendi, such as the text to Dan asking if he would be home the week of the murder, for example, and it is possible she then decided that Wendi might possibly be more involved that she had thought, and so it is possible that she felt it important to share what she knew with the Markels through their attorney. Her December, 2023 email to Snyder, per this recent exhibit list, is described as “former friend of Wendi;” in my opinion it is possible that she may have wanted to communicate in that email that she was a former friend and had information she wanted to share. This is all speculative, and just my opinion.

I hope there's a ton of people like SY.

Both DM & SY had wide circle of friends, colleagues & associates and with Donna Harvey having been up in Tallahassee every month after the birth of the boys there's potentially a lot of bits n pieces scattered out there ( Evidence re Wendi & Donna)

 

[JerseyPride]

Rethining about the bump and how inonsistent it is with the "double extortion" defense.

The undercover made clear that his understanding was that the murder was done at the Adelson's request and that they were willingly paying the killers for carrying out that request (i.e., the underconver repeatedly stated that the killers "helped your family with the problem they are having up north" and that the Adelsons were "taking care of" Katie and Garcia as a result).

It is so telling that in all of the wires (including the Dolce Vida conversation) there is LITERALLY ZERO discussion among the co-conspirators about how the undercover was all wrong that the Adelsons were "taking care of Tuto and Katie" in exchange for the killers handling their "problem up north." Nor is there any speculation about how the undercover got this "wrong" information.

If Charlie and Donna were truly paying the killers under the threat of death (as opposed to payment for services rendered) you would think there would be some speculation on the wires as to why the undercover has this ridiculous idea that they are paying for a hit that they commissioned themselves (as opposed to making payments under duress to avoid execution).

It also strains belief to interpret the undercover's statements as implying physical harm in the event of non-payment. Rather, it was very clear that this was a "blackmail" situation where non-payment could lead to the Adelsons being exposed for their part in the murder. Thus, even if you buy the ridiculous notion that there was a "first layer" of "pay or die" extortion, there is no way to interpret the bump as a similar threat that would give rise to a "second layer" of "pay or die" extortion.

 

[IQuestion]

Purely guessing, just my opinion, but I think it’s possible that after Charlie’s conviction and Donna’s arrest, SY contacted the attorney for the Markels because she wanted to share some emails she had. Those emails, in my opinion, could possibly have been something Wendi sent her after Charlie’s conviction and Donna’s arrest. OR, in my opinion, SY could possibly have seen the new evidence that was presented at Charlie’s trial which might possibly have seemed to her to implicate Wendi, such as the text to Dan asking if he would be home the week of the murder, for example, and it is possible she then decided that Wendi might possibly be more involved that she had thought, and so it is possible that she felt it important to share what she knew with the Markels through their attorney. Her December, 2023 email to Snyder, per this recent exhibit list, is described as “former friend of Wendi;” in my opinion it is possible that she may have wanted to communicate in that email that she was a former friend and had information she wanted to share. This is all speculative, and just my opinion.

BBMA "OR?? " HAS ANYONE HERE SENT AN EMAIL AFTER DRINKING TOO MUCH?? Sent a draft we wish we hadn't sent? Sent an email to the wrong person? The possible scenarios are boundless. Or even had access/ reviewed/discussed criminal records of a certain convict (CA, SG or LR) that would have otherwise been sealed from the public. Geesh, it could be as simple as "Hey check out my new home in Miami."?? At this point SY discussion could be 50 different things.

Sara Yousuf Archives - The Appeal

theappeal.org

 

[Knitpicker]

Purely guessing, just my opinion, but I think it’s possible that after Charlie’s conviction and Donna’s arrest, SY contacted the attorney for the Markels because she wanted to share some emails she had. Those emails, in my opinion, could possibly have been something Wendi sent her after Charlie’s conviction and Donna’s arrest. OR, in my opinion, SY could possibly have seen the new evidence that was presented at Charlie’s trial which might possibly have seemed to her to implicate Wendi, such as the text to Dan asking if he would be home the week of the murder, for example, and it is possible she then decided that Wendi might possibly be more involved that she had thought, and so it is possible that she felt it important to share what she knew with the Markels through their attorney. Her December, 2023 email to Snyder, per this recent exhibit list, is described as “former friend of Wendi;” in my opinion it is possible that she may have wanted to communicate in that email that she was a former friend and had information she wanted to share. This is all speculative, and just my opinion.

Right. And I was thinking it was better for her to contact them than for them to contact her.like Scott Radius. That really looks bad for Wendi.

 

[IQuestion]

just more public internet cruising... Uganda. Really? There are giraffes in Uganda, too.
"Living in Uganda, and understanding what it feels like to be "the only" in the room."

Nyah News Spotlight: Wendi Adelson — Nyah Project

Each month, we’ll be highlighting a different Nyah Project advisor with a short Q&A. Advisors are crucial members of the Nyah Project family, supporting the organization and our Fellows in different ways: as coaches, mentors, and facilitators, and/or ambassadors. This month, meet Wendi Ade

archive.nyahproject.org

 

[amicuscurie]

Right. And I was thinking it was better for her to contact them than for them to contact her.like Scott Radius. That really looks bad for Wendi.

I thought Scott Radius contacted the cops because Donna had called him about her plan to flee? I didn’t think they contacted him first.

 

[amicuscurie]

just more public internet cruising... Uganda. Really? There are giraffes in Uganda, too.
"Living in Uganda, and understanding what it feels like to be "the only" in the room."

https://archive.nyahproject.org/blogposts/2022/8/31/nyah-news-spotlight-wendi-adelson[/URLthebonk

The only …. what…in the room? The mind reels.

 

[amicuscurie]

BBMA "OR?? " HAS ANYONE HERE SENT AN EMAIL AFTER DRINKING TOO MUCH?? Sent a draft we wish we hadn't sent? Sent an email to the wrong person? The possible scenarios are boundless. Or even had access/ reviewed/discussed criminal records of a certain convict (CA, SG or LR) that would have otherwise been sealed from the public. Geesh, it could be as simple as "Hey check out my new home in Miami."?? At this point SY discussion could be 50 different things.

Sara Yousuf Archives - The Appeal

theappeal.org

all excellent points.

 

[amicuscurie]

Rethining about the bump and how inonsistent it is with the "double extortion" defense.

The undercover made clear that his understanding was that the murder was done at the Adelson's request and that they were willingly paying the killers for carrying out that request (i.e., the underconver repeatedly stated that the killers "helped your family with the problem they are having up north" and that the Adelsons were "taking care of" Katie and Garcia as a result).

It is so telling that in all of the wires (including the Dolce Vida conversation) there is LITERALLY ZERO discussion among the co-conspirators about how the undercover was all wrong that the Adelsons were "taking care of Tuto and Katie" in exchange for the killers handling their "problem up north." Nor is there any speculation about how the undercover got this "wrong" information.

If Charlie and Donna were truly paying the killers under the threat of death (as opposed to payment for services rendered) you would think there would be some speculation on the wires as to why the undercover has this ridiculous idea that they are paying for a hit that they commissioned themselves (as opposed to making payments under duress to avoid execution).

It also strains belief to interpret the undercover's statements as implying physical harm in the event of non-payment. Rather, it was very clear that this was a "blackmail" situation where non-payment could lead to the Adelsons being exposed for their part in the murder. Thus, even if you buy the ridiculous notion that there was a "first layer" of "pay or die" extortion, there is no way to interpret the bump as a similar threat that would give rise to a "second layer" of "pay or die" extortion.

They could possibly try to argue that when he said that, they thought the person was referring to how they “took care of” Dan for them, even though they hadn’t asked. Remember, if I recall correctly, Charlie’s story was that he was “running his mouth” to Katie about how Dan was giving them problems, and they wanted to pay him to go away, so they killed him and then asked for the money, or something to that effect. But, you’re right, of course, IMO that story is not credible.

 

[Knitpicker]

I hope there's a ton of people like SY.

Both DM & SY had wide circle of friends, colleagues & associates and with Donna Harvey having been up in Tallahassee every month after the birth of the boys there's potentially a lot of bits n pieces scattered out there ( Evidence re Wendi & Donna)

I heard that every week Wendi had the boys Donna was up there. And she drove alone also. She wa only 64 at the time of DMs death