FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *4 Guilty* #24

[Knitpicker]

Rashbaum appears to me to have gained a lot of weight.

The beard is gone but yes he must be under a lot of stress.

 

[amicuscurie]

The State’s argument that the defense could’ve/shouldv’ve tried getting their own records years ago if they were so “exonerating” seemed pretty weak to me. The Judge’s questions made me think he was a bit skeptical about the strength of that argument.

Also it feels like some of DR’s arguments today were stronger than some of his arguments at Charlie’s trial. Interesting to hear all this JMOO tho

The one argument I found persuasive was the argument that the state has had the text saying “outside your house” from the beginning, and thus there is no new evidence which would have justified the delay in charging Donna. The state argued that they had it but did not appreciate its significance until Katie told them that Charlie said that Donna had been there. If the judge does not buy that argument, it’s not good for the state. The judge said he was going to review Katie’s testimony. Hopefully he is going to be looking at it with an eye toward finding that Katie’s testimony supports the state’s argument. But this makes me nervous. The state DID have that text, from the beginning, and it would seem to me that they would have reviewed all of the phone records they had very closely, particularly texts sent on the day of the murder. It’s possible the state just didn’t use that text in other trials, because Donna was not the Defendant and it wasn’t needed. One could argue that Rashbaum has also know about that text, but he is arguing that he was not able to get the SunPass records until his client was actually charged. This one makes me nervous.

 

[amicuscurie]

IMO ‘the money drop’ is the most important ruling that has a ‘realistic’ chance. Losing this would be a major blow to the prosecution’s case.

As much criticism as Rashbaum seems to get, I think he made very solid arguments today and argued them well. People that criticize his competency seem to do it out of their hatred of his clients.

Agreed. This one makes me nervous.

 

[Knitpicker]

The one argument I found persuasive was the argument that the state has had the text saying “outside your house” from the beginning, and thus there is no new evidence which would have justified the delay in charging Donna. The state argued that they had it but did not appreciate its significance until Katie told them that Charlie said that Donna had been there. If the judge does not buy that argument, it’s not good for the state. The judge said he was going to review Katie’s testimony. Hopefully he is going to be looking at it with an eye toward finding that Katie’s testimony supports the state’s argument. But this makes me nervous. The state DID have that text, from the beginning, and it would seem to me that they would have reviewed all of the phone records they had very closely, particularly texts sent on the day of the murder. It’s possible the state just didn’t use that text in other trials, because Donna was not the Defendant and it wasn’t needed. One could argue that Rashbaum has also know about that text, but he is arguing that he was not able to get the SunPass records until his client was actually charged. This one makes me nervous.

I agree.
How did he know the route they took that night if he had no sunpass records?\
He mentioned them starting on I95 then switching to the Turnpike.

 

[Knitpicker]

Pretty sure the Queen of South Beach was unfamiliar with baloney sandwiches in her previous life!

Not a Kosher meal!

 

[amicuscurie]

I agree.
How did he know the route they took that night if he had no sunpass records?\
He mentioned them starting on I95 then switching to the Turnpike.

That was the ridiculous part of his argument, to me. He acknowledged that the state has records that place them ON the Turnpike at a certain time. He seems to me to just be arguing that he needs the records of exactly when and where they ENTERED the Turnpike, and whether and when they may have exited. It is my opinion that if those records existed, they would show them entering the Turnpike about an hour or 90 minutes after that text was sent, because that is consistent with their arrival in Orlando at 1:30 a.m. But he’s arguing that the records might NOT say that, and since we can’t access them, the state’s evidence - which DOES support the interpretation that the SunPass records would indeed show them entering the Turnpike after the text was sent - should be thrown out.

Unfortunately, it appears to me that the state knew about Donna’s text but did not use it until Charlie’s trial. The state is arguing that this is because its significance was not apparent until Katie testified. But they could also have simply decided not to use it because it was not necessary for Katie’s case. If that were a strategic decision they made, then the defense is arguing that they should have to face the consequences, which is that they allowed too much time to go by such that the defense is no longer able to counter it.

 

[amicuscurie]

I agree.
How did he know the route they took that night if he had no sunpass records?\
He mentioned them starting on I95 then switching to the Turnpike.

He knows exactly what happened, in my opinion. That’s why this motion annoys me. In my opinion the SunPass records even if they could be pulled would not be helpful to the defense.

 

[Knitpicker]

That was the ridiculous part of his argument, to me. He acknowledged that the state has records that place them ON the Turnpike at a certain time. He seems to me to just be arguing that he needs the records of exactly when and where they ENTERED the Turnpike, and whether and when they may have exited. It is my opinion that if those records existed, they would show them entering the Turnpike about an hour or 90 minutes after that text was sent, because that is consistent with their arrival in Orlando at 1:30 a.m. But he’s arguing that the records might NOT say that, and since we can’t access them, the state’s evidence, which DOES support the interpretation that the SunPass records would indeed show them entering the Turnpike after the text was sent, should be thrown out.

I think he mentioned that they switched to the Turnpike while they were still in Dade. I’d have to relisten.
So the state does have the records? I’m confused. I thought the state does not have the sunpass records.

 

[amicuscurie]

I think he mentioned that they switched to the Turnpike while they were still in Dade. I’d have to relisten.
So the state does have the records? I’m confused. I thought the state does not have the sunpass records.

Yes, he said they got on it at the Golden Glades, (which he referred to as the Dolphin Expressway). If they did that, and did not stop, then in my opinion it would not have taken them until 1:30 a.m. to arrive in Orlando. Also, cell tower records seem to be able to pinpoint Donna’s location pretty accurately. Wouldn’t they be able to show where and when she was at or near the Golden Glades?

 

[IQuestion]

Rashbaum appears to me to have gained a lot of weight.

View attachment 527936
The trappings of a successful man: wider waist/waste and wider wrist

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/465067099026381190/

Conspicuous consumption - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[amicuscurie]

I think he mentioned that they switched to the Turnpike while they were still in Dade. I’d have to relisten.
So the state does have the records? I’m confused. I thought the state does not have the sunpass records.

The state does not have SunPass records. They have cell tower records which show where Donna’s phone was, and when, and these show her having taken the Turnpike that night, and when she was on it.

 

[Knitpicker]

Yes, he said they got on it at the Golden Glades, (which he referred to as the Dolphin Expressway). If they did that, and did not stop, then in my opinion it would not have taken them until 1:30 a.m. to arrive in Orlando. Also, cell tower records seem to be able to pinpoint Donna’s location pretty accurately. Wouldn’t they be able to show where and when she was at or near the Golden Glades?

Corbett only said they left from Miami. If I remember (Bc I always thought they left from Coral Springs) He may have been keeping that information. It wasn’t specific.

 

[Knitpicker]

Yes, he said they got on it at the Golden Glades, (which he referred to as the Dolphin Expressway). If they did that, and did not stop, then in my opinion it would not have taken them until 1:30 a.m. to arrive in Orlando. Also, cell tower records seem to be able to pinpoint Donna’s location pretty accurately. Wouldn’t they be able to show where and when she was at or near the Golden Glades?

Corbett only said they left from Miami. If I remember (Bc I always thought they left from Coral Springs) He may have been keeping that information. It wasn’t specific.
So Rashi is suggesting they took the dolphin expressway to I75 to go north. Thats interesting bc that wouldnt be the way I would get to Orlando. Maybe if I was going straight to Tallahassee. It brings you farther west than Orlando it.
I hadn’t considered that route.

 

[cottonweaver]

I realise this post is long so I've bolded a couple of questions for TLDR purposes!

So Rash claimed the retention max on Sunpass is ' 3.5 years from what we're told.' and then Rash says that Corbett testified to that at the last trial
I hope the State are fact-checking Rashbaum because I posted about this as soon as this Defense Motion was filed. 2 months ago? I do not recall Corbett ever giving a number. ( Ultimately it doesn't matter but he definitely takes liberties as we saw in the last trial)
Good to see Everett bust him on his general claims re Donna's route & what as historic Sunpass records must show, according to Rash.

Shocking to see him attempt to fool judge by saying ' the exhibit list is the same as it was in 2019'
Dougan's really good on '... there's no way to know there was a transponder at that exit back in 2014 but also no way to know the records would be exculpatory, could easily be inculpatory'

Dougan said - Yes they already had the 'outside your house' & 'ten minutes' text but she adds ' ....the state hadn't zero'd in on that being a possible money drop off... until Katie's proffer.

Rash also claims that when the 2019 trial happened, he tried to get her Sunpass records. But why would he do that as early as 2019 when nobody at all ever mentioned the ' outside your house' text exchange. I don't recall that being in evidence or at issue in 2019. Have I got that wrong?


anyway, things we didn't know:
1/ A month after the murder the state pulled all her financial records ( says Rash)
2/ Rash was retained by Donna in 'late summer 2016 end of July beginning of August' ( Well isn't that convenient! That misses the 2016 Bump and the period of the wiretaps. I wonder did Donna speak to her lawyer at all? If not why not? She's literally on tape with Charlie in May 2016 where they discuss the Bump might be a P.I. who's been hired by the Markels and they discuss the criminal penalties for extortion attempts. )

Am still only up to 38mins of this hearing
I just wouldn't trust DR as far as I could throw him. ( This is also based on his antics in Charlie's trial)

 

[apeXperience]

IMO ‘the money drop’ is the most important ruling that has a ‘realistic’ chance. Losing this would be a major blow to the prosecution’s case.

As much criticism as Rashbaum seems to get, I think he made very solid arguments today and argued them well. People that criticize his competency seem to do it out of their hatred of his clients.

What happened today at Donna Adelson’s Motion Hearing in Room 3G?

Find attached a copy of the Clerks’ handwritten notes accurately listing the a) motions, b) motions’ prongs, and c) motions’ sub-prongs whereas the Judge a) reserved his decision, b) granted some of the defense’s motions, and c) denied others of the defense’s motions. Of course, the written versions of these decisions and orders will be posted on the docket prior to the Jury selection.

Some of the defense’s discussions about the granted and yet reserved motions were arcane. These will generate learning materials for Florida Law Schools, and precedents for future Florida rulings. For sure, this Judge has written boldly his name in the records, so to speak.

Overall, I agree with Going Rogue: a) the defense attorneys scored important points, especially from their evidence attenuation/suppression arguments, b) the State attorneys were somewhat unprepared and taken aback, and c) the Judge “judged” (to always properly remain polite with Judges no matter how they “navigate”).

 

[amicuscurie]

Corbett only said they left from Miami. If I remember (Bc I always thought they left from Coral Springs) He may have been keeping that information. It wasn’t specific.
So Rashi is suggesting they took the dolphin expressway to I75 to go north. Thats interesting bc that wouldnt be the way I would get to Orlando. Maybe if I was going straight to Tallahassee. It brings you farther west than Orlando it.
I hadn’t considered that route.

The Dolphin Expressway is not the Turnpike. It was confusing, because I thought I heard him say they took the Turnpike and got on it by the Dolphins Stadium (Golden Glades). That’s not the Dolphin Expressway. In my experience, and I’ve done it a million times, if you are heading to Orlando from Miami, you take the Turnpike, and you get on it at Golden Glades, which is right next to the Dolphins Stadium. In my opinion, Rash was confused as to the difference between Golden Glades, which is an entrance to the Turnpike near Dolphins Stadium, and the Dolphin Expressway, which is something else entirely. From my recollection, he was describing a Turnpike entrance near the stadium, which is properly called the Golden Glades Interchange.

 

[Knitpicker]

The Dolphin Expressway is not the Turnpike. It was confusing, because I thought I heard him say they took the Turnpike and got on it by the Dolphins Stadium (Golden Glades). That’s not the Dolphin Expressway

Did he say Dolphin Expressway? There would be no point in taking this to get to Orlando. It would take you too far west and then if you got on the Turnpike you would be going back east. that makes no sense. Theres no way they took this to go to Orlando

 

[Going Rogue]

It makes you wonder why he didn't do this for Charlie.

Yes mold and listeria. I used to buy Boars head but I no longer eat luncheon meats unless it’s from Trader joe/organic.
I had noticed they don;t keep track of the date they opened it and it could be just sitting there for more days than it should. They just put plastic wrap on it until they slice it for the next person. Food nowadays is scary.

In Donna’s case it's tied to the undue delay argument that the arrest was with prejudice and in bad faith because of the passage of time - there was no undue delay argued in Charlie's case and a realistic case for undue delay was not realistic in Charlies case. It is somewhat realistic for Donnas case. However, although its 'somewhat realistic', the undue delay motion is a pipe dream and Rashbaum knows it. Essentially Rashbaum positioned excluding the ‘money drop’ motion as a ‘compromise’ by the state for the undue delay in the arrest. At least that’s how I interpreted Rashbaum's plea to Judge Everett - which is why I am giving him a lot of credit today. Prior to hearing Rashbaum’s argument, I would have thought the motion to drop the 'money drop' allegation would be immediately denied. The fact that Judge Everett is going to review Katie’s testimony before making a decision and consider Rashbaum's argument / request shows that Rashbaum is a good ‘negotiator’. I still think the motion will be denied, but I think Rashbaum made a good case. If its not denied, it will be a major win for Rashbaum. I honestly don't think Rashbaum gives two craps about anything else argued today - excluding the motion to dismiss the case which is a pipe dream and not a realistic motion.

 

[amicuscurie]

Did he say Dolphin Expressway?

He did, but as I recall, he also said they got on the TURNPIKE at an entrance near Dolphins Stadium. That, to the best of my knowledge, is NOT the Dolphin Expressway, not by a long shot. His whole Motion seemed to me to be about being able to show when they got on the TURNPIKE.

What he seemed to me to be describing is the Golden Glades Interchange, where you join the Turnpike from I-95 going North. There’s a SunPass reader there. Just as you enter, you pass Dolphins STADIUM.

I believe he misspoke. Or he doesn’t know what that interchange is called and thinks it’s called the Dolphin Expressway, because it’s next to the stadium. That’s not what the Dolphin Expressway is, but maybe if you’re from Broward you don’t know that.

I’m thinking he was describing Golden Glades, because I’ve done that very drive to Orlando a million times. I’ve also done it from Coral Springs. You wouldn’t even stop in Orlando at all unless you took the Turnpike, because that’s the road that goes through Orlando. 95 and 75 don’t.

 

[cottonweaver]

Corbett only said they left from Miami. If I remember (Bc I always thought they left from Coral Springs) He may have been keeping that information. It wasn’t specific.
So Rashi is suggesting they took the dolphin expressway to I75 to go north. Thats interesting bc that wouldnt be the way I would get to Orlando. Maybe if I was going straight to Tallahassee. It brings you farther west than Orlando it.
I hadn’t considered that route.

I got the impression that he was trying to baffle the Tally-based judge based on the judge not being a frequent user of those routes, did you? ( I don't know any of them so I cannot comment but that was my impression)


Anyway, this segment which you're all discussing right now is here at 22minutes

@amicuscurie Can you upload a screenshot of Googlemaps?