FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *4 Guilty* #24

[amicuscurie]

Re your question, I did wonder whether he'd listened to every Bump call closely. They're multiple hours of audio, its a huge task for a working lawyer. Could easily have been missed.

OR

OTOH he did say, last week after supplying all that Vietnam & S Yousuf info, that he was going to now look into something which he'd never pursued in the past but which he should have. This might be that item.

Jeremy Mutz - lawyer & former staffer in Meggs SAO - was on STS yesterday and he certainly didn't think this was much ado about nothing. He explained that since 2019 he's been raising the issue of why it was unsealed. ( He raised it with OMDBody but they weren't really interested in the ' Inside Baseball' type material either. He said it would make a great book. Mutz was of the belief that Meggs had forced it but that he can't be sure ( it = unsealing)

The article I read was in the Tallahassee Democrat and seemed to me to indicate they were going to look into it further, but it doesn’t seem to me like they did.

 

[cottonweaver]

The article I read was in the Tallahassee Democrat and seemed to me to indicate they were going to look into it further, but it doesn’t seem to me like they did.

well, everybody on STS agreed on one thing, that there was huge antipathy between Meggs & TPD, in general. One of the panellists also noted that it was outrageous for Meggs to make that public statement saying that there was zero evidence against the Adelsons.

Do you recall that statement? I do but I can't recall the date

 

[cottonweaver]

To avoid confusion, this is the latest STS episode where Jeremy Mutz reiterates what he thinks about the topic as a former Meggs SAO insider

 

[amicuscurie]

To avoid confusion, this is the latest STS episode where Jeremy Mutz reiterates what he thinks about the topic as a former Meggs SAO insider

That was interesting. Both Mutz and Webster seemed, to me, to be focused entirely on Meggs and whether he may or may not have wanted the affidavit unsealed. But as far as I can see, the recent Mentour video doesn’t mention Meggs at all.

The focus of Mentour’s recent video, it seems to me, is the fact that there is a bump call in which Donna says that “Wendi’s judge” is friends with a Tallahassee judge and wants to talk to Wendi about the case, and that a Tallahassee judge unsealed the probable cause affidavit sometime after that bump call. In my opinion the panel did not address this and did not mention “Wendi’s judge” though they did talk about the Tallahassee judge who unsealed the affidavit.

 

[Knitpicker]

I just looked up an old article about how the police were basically blindsided by the unsealing, it does say the judge apparently did it on his own, and that this is pretty much unprecedented. I do think Mentour may have a point, that the judge may have unsealed it once he realized that he had inadvertently released confidential info to Jordan and/or Wendi. I don’t personally think Meggs was involved in that, and I do think it’s possible he may have felt his hands were tied in terms of further prosecutions once it was released.

Why is Mentour on this all of a sudden?

TPD concerned other Markel suspects may flee

Tallahassee Police wanted to seal the arrest affidavit of a suspect in Dan Markel’s slaying out of fear future co-defendants might flee U.S.

www.tallahassee.com

. Look at the date.

 

[Going Rogue]

To avoid confusion, this is the latest STS episode where Jeremy Mutz reiterates what he thinks about the topic as a former Meggs SAO insider

Its very clear that the Tallahassee PD and the DA’s office were never on the same page while Willie Meggs was the State Attorney and its also very clear to me missteps were made and its an understatement to say its very fair to question some of the decision making. We can only make educated guesses based on snippets of information that are publicly available and that are being shared by people that were in the know as to why there was such a disconnect. I think the person that has the most information that is willing to ‘share’ more of the story ‘if’ the right questions are asked is Jeremy Mutz. I have a very high opinion of Jeremy Mutz – he is measured, articulate and doesn’t mince his words. Personally, I would love to hear more from Jeremy on this topic and more of the the ‘inside baseball’. I get the impression he is willing to say more, we just need to ‘right’ setting and person to ask the probing questions. Joel shared an email from Jeremy in the video you referenced where he is alleging the judge was ‘contacted’ by someone requesting he unseal the affidavit and further that the TPD wasn’t aware and was not happy about the decision. I have a hunch Jeremy has a good idea who that person may be. I don’t agree with all the speculation that the judges ‘may’ have done anything unethical or prejudicial based on the data being presented in ML’s video. I’m not saying ML is directly saying that, but it seems to me ML’s latest video on this topic is being interpreted as the judge in Tally & the judge in Miami acted in a prejudicial manner when, in my opinion, there is no evidence to support such a claim - we shouldn't speculate either judge did anything wrong based on Donna and Charlies phone conversation. I completely believe Wendi asked the judge she clerked for help getting information – I seriously doubt he would pass information onto her once / ‘if’ it was made clear to him the Adelson family was suspected.

 

[amicuscurie]

Its very clear that the Tallahassee PD and the DA’s office were never on the same page while Willie Meggs was the State Attorney and its also very clear to me missteps were made and its an understatement to say its very fair to question some of the decision making. We can only make educated guesses based on snippets of information that are publicly available and that are being shared by people that were in the know as to why there was such a disconnect. I think the person that has the most information that is willing to ‘share’ more of the story ‘if’ the right questions are asked is Jeremy Mutz. I have a very high opinion of Jeremy Mutz – he is measured, articulate and doesn’t mince his words. Personally, I would love to hear more from Jeremy on this topic and more of the the ‘inside baseball’. I get the impression he is willing to say more, we just need to ‘right’ setting and person to ask the probing questions. Joel shared an email from Jeremy in the video you referenced where he is alleging the judge was ‘contacted’ by someone requesting he unseal the affidavit and further that the TPD wasn’t aware and was not happy about the decision. I have a hunch Jeremy has a good idea who that person may be. I don’t agree with all the speculation that the judges ‘may’ have done anything unethical or prejudicial based on the data being presented in ML’s video. I’m not saying ML is directly saying that, but it seems to me ML’s latest video on this topic is being interpreted as the judge in Tally & the judge in Miami acted in a prejudicial manner when, in my opinion, there is no evidence to support such a claim - we shouldn't speculate either judge did anything wrong based on Donna and Charlies phone conversation. I completely believe Wendi asked the judge she clerked for help getting information – I seriously doubt he would pass information onto her once / ‘if’ it was made clear to him the Adelson family was suspected.

Anyone who read the affidavit would have or should have known the Adelson family were suspected, in my opinion.

If Mutz is saying that someone asked the judge to unseal it, he’s certainly not saying who. Mentour lawyer’s video, in my opinion, strongly suggests it was someone other than Meggs.

Speaking generally and not about this particular case, it is possible to say the wrong thing to someone without realizing it. Mentour’s video speaks of the appearance of impropriety, which is to be avoided as much as impropriety itself.

 

[Knitpicker]

Check out Mentours follow up to Webster comments. He posted it last night.

 

[amicuscurie]

Check out Mentours follow up to Webster comments. He posted it last night.

I liked the response. Everyone seems to speak very highly of the Tallahassee judge, Mentour included, and Webster in particular. Webster, in my opinion, seemed to me to believe that Mentour was alleging that someone paid off the Tallahassee judge, and Webster seems to me to have taken deep offense at that. I don’t believe that’s what the Mentour video was suggesting at all. As I see it, Mentour was simply stating facts and drawing a timeline. To me, the timeline is troubling, but that is just my opinion.

 

[Going Rogue]

Anyone who read the affidavit would have or should have known the Adelson family were suspected, in my opinion.

If Mutz is saying that someone asked the judge to unseal it, he’s certainly not saying who. Mentour lawyer’s video, in my opinion, strongly suggests it was someone other than Meggs.

Speaking generally and not about this particular case, it is possible to say the wrong thing to someone without realizing it. Mentour’s video speaks of the appearance of impropriety, which is to be avoided as much as impropriety itself.

Yes, its very clear in Sigfredo’s affidavit the state was implicating the Adelson's involvement – that is not even up for interpretation. Jeremy’s email that I referenced indicates the judge was contacted by ‘someone’ requesting the order to seal the affidavit be reversed AND further that the TPD thought it was Meggs' decision / directive. Mentour Lawyer (at least his narrator) is suggesting the judge may have decided to unseal it to ‘protect’ himself because he may have leaked the information to the Miami judge who in turn told Wendi. Those two ‘theories’ are completely different. Jeremy Mutz did not suggest he knows who reached out to the judge, so I want to be clear I’m not putting words in his mouth, but I personally think he suspects who it is. Jeremy was in the trenches at the time and I think his opinion / inside knowledge is the 'theory' I’d be more inclined to believe. No disrespect to Mentour Lawyer, he is just floating theories / opinions based on data and not necessarily stating it as fact. I just think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions after listening to Mentour Lawyers video and it adds to more confusion / misinformation / outrage to the case – I know that wasn’t Mentour Lawyers intention.

 

[IQuestion]

If I was counseling Donna:

Dear Donna,
You need to work on a plea deal with the state to turn in W. W has already shown you will be pushed aside the minute a conflict arises with her professional and social reputation. W has had the opportunity to raise her children (albeit with your intense intervention and personal sacrifice). No one will be able to take care of "H" with all the love and history you have with him. Why throw away 50 years of wedded bliss for a daughter who won't give you the time of day? W is a good actress, knows the law, can write her own apeals, is physically fit and more able to handle the toughness of a woman's prison.
"C" has had to be moved almost 2 thousand miles away from his only child!! Give "C" the same opportunity to one day be in his son's life. His daily (if not hourly) life in prison is spent looking over his shoulder. He is in constant danger. "C" has proved to be a loyal and loving son who never left your side. He was your most loyal, obedient child and agreeable son. He will never hesitate to pursue every avenue to fulfill your slightest request and/or ease any discomfort you might be experiencing. He will never say, "I can't ethically help you." "On the advice of my attorney, I can't talk to you about anything." Or, threaten you into silence (Baker Act) if you are getting on his nerves. "C" doesn't care what the public thinks of him.... he only seeks unconditional approval from "H" and you.
Just think about it..okay? A chance to spend the rest of your life with "H" and a son who will care about the two of you, without regard to ego or public image.
Sincerely,
Wake Up and Get A. Clue

 

[amicuscurie]

Yes, its very clear in Sigfredo’s affidavit the state was implicating the Adelson's involvement – that is not even up for interpretation. Jeremy’s email that I referenced indicates the judge was contacted by ‘someone’ requesting the order to seal the affidavit be reversed AND further that the TPD thought it was Meggs' decision / directive. Mentour Lawyer (at least his narrator) is suggesting the judge may have decided to unseal it to ‘protect’ himself because he may have leaked the information to the Miami judge who in turn told Wendi. Those two ‘theories’ are completely different. Jeremy Mutz did not suggest he knows who reached out to the judge, so I want to be clear I’m not putting words in his mouth, but I personally think he suspects who it is. Jeremy was in the trenches at the time and I think his opinion / inside knowledge is the 'theory' I’d be more inclined to believe. No disrespect to Mentour Lawyer, he is just floating theories / opinions based on data and not necessarily stating it as fact. I just think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions after listening to Mentour Lawyers video and it adds to more confusion / misinformation / outrage to the case – I know that wasn’t Mentour Lawyers intention.

Yes, these are all just theories. But, we do know that on one of the bump tapes Donna can be heard saying that Wendi’s judge is friendly with the Tallahassee judge, and that Wendi’s judge wants to speak with her about that.

 

[Knitpicker]

I liked the response. Everyone seems to speak very highly of the Tallahassee judge, Mentour included, and Webster in particular. Webster, in my opinion, seemed to me to believe that Mentour was alleging that someone paid off the Tallahassee judge, and Webster seems to me to have taken deep offense at that. I don’t believe that’s what the Mentour video was suggesting at all. As I see it, Mentour was simply stating facts and drawing a timeline. To me, the timeline is troubling, but that is just my opinion.

Webster didn’t seem like his usual self.

 

[Knitpicker]

Yes, these are all just theories. But, we do know that on one of the bump tapes Donna can be heard saying that Wendi’s judge is friendly with the Tallahassee judge, and that Wendi’s judge wants to speak with her about that.

Thats the key. The comment. And a day later. Coincidence?

 

[Knitpicker]

Yes, it’s very clear in Sigfredo’s affidavit the state was implicating the Adelson's involvement – that is not even up for interpretation. Jeremy’s email that I referenced indicates the judge was contacted by ‘someone’ requesting the order to seal the affidavit be reversed AND further that the TPD thought it was Meggs' decision / directive. Mentour Lawyer (at least his narrator) is suggesting the judge may have decided to unseal it to ‘protect’ himself because he may have leaked the information to the Miami judge who in turn told Wendi. Those two ‘theories’ are completely different. Jeremy Mutz did not suggest he knows who reached out to the judge, so I want to be clear I’m not putting words in his mouth, but I personally think he suspects who it is. Jeremy was in the trenches at the time and I think his opinion / inside knowledge is the 'theory' I’d be more inclined to believe. No disrespect to Mentour Lawyer, he is just floating theories / opinions based on data and not necessarily stating it as fact. I just think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions after listening to Mentour Lawyers video and it adds to more confusion / misinformation / outrage to the case – I know that wasn’t Mentour Lawyers intention.

You’re leaving out what the issue is. The judge gave Wendi information that she should not have been privy to. (Without the motive you are suggesting bc we don’t know the motive. We can only make assumptions)

 

[Knitpicker]

I liked the response. Everyone seems to speak very highly of the Tallahassee judge, Mentour included, and Webster in particular. Webster, in my opinion, seemed to me to believe that Mentour was alleging that someone paid off the Tallahassee judge, and Webster seems to me to have taken deep offense at that. I don’t believe that’s what the Mentour video was suggesting at all. As I see it, Mentour was simply stating facts and drawing a timeline. To me, the timeline is troubling, but that is just my opinion.

Mentour never suggested anyone was paid off. I rewatched it and I don’t hear that. Of course you speculate,

 

[Going Rogue]

Yes, these are all just theories. But, we do know that on one of the bump tapes Donna can be heard saying that Wendi’s judge is friendly with the Tallahassee judge, and that Wendi’s judge wants to speak with her about that.

Right the two judges know each other personally. I 100% believe Wendi leveraged her ‘relationship’ with the judge she clerked for in Miami and asked if he could get her information and he probably said I will ‘see what I can find out’. At that time of the call you reference between Donna & Charlie, the Adelsons weren’t publicly named and I’m sure ‘IF” the judge in Miami was looped into what was alleged in the affidavit re the Adelson's involvement he would NOT have shared that with Wendi. Let's give the two judges a little more credit.

 

[amicuscurie]

Webster didn’t seem like his usual self.

I agree. He seemed more upset that I would have expected, and he seemed to think the judge was being accused of taking money, which is not my understanding of Mentour’s video.

 

[amicuscurie]

Thats the key. The comment. And a day later. Coincidence?

Lots of coincidences in this case. I want to believe that if there were anything to this it would have been looked into already, as I said that’s a really old bump call. Per Mutz, it would appear that Meggs was suspected as being behind the release of the affidavit.

 

[amicuscurie]

Mentour never suggested anyone was paid off. I rewatched it and I don’t hear that. Of course you speculate,

I didn’t hear the Mentour video say anything about any judge being paid off, either.