FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *4 Guilty* #25

[Zedzded]

Thinking out loud, "If DA were trying for a plea deal, what kind of information could she give that hasn't already been reviewed?" ?

I've been banging on for ages about DA making a deal or WA or CA, one of them flipping. I was convinced of it. I now think there is zero chance of any of them cooperating with the State and admitting to even a minor level of complicity. They will maintain their innocence to their last breath. It doesn't make sense, but then they don't. Every time I think I've got them figured out, something happens to prove me wrong. They're twisted and broken. They seem to have love and loyalty and kindness, but paradoxically are filled with anger, hate, bitterness. You can't have both.

 

[BearWatcher]

Wow...was the motion/request filed by Morris? I have always wondered what items/documents may have been "hidden, locked away and stored." DA said she needed to share information with WA. Can anyone recall the hot mic of DA saying something about "codes or keys" if the plane crashed? I can't find it, but I remember hearing it.
I have never been able to wrap my mind around a (long time married) couple selling their family home, getting rid of a lifetime of memories (collectibles/art/heirlooms) and moving to a condo. If given the same situation, I would have to rent a storage space until I could come to terms with leaving everything. The same for CA's home contents. It always seemed odd.
DA WTTE ..."I have all the information. I have the cemetary property. I want her to see all that. I want her to her to have all these papers and the wills. I want her to see all this."
PS. I know LE was still looking for "a burner or extra phone used by Charlie." LE asked June Umchinda about it when they interviewed her prior to CA's trial. @25:10 of the interview. The interviewers were very laid back in their questions. Intentionally matching June's hesitance/low energy? (Please do not take that as a slight on JU as she has had her life turned upside down. I hope she has a wonderful future.) They were amazing and got lots of useful information!

.

Tried to find the link noted in the original post that was quoted, but only able to find Patty’s Sunday You Tube channel. She indicates she filed a report with the Talhassee police against a person who threatened her. She provides background prior to 8 min mark. Very disturbing,if it turns out to be true.

 

[amicuscurie]

I've been banging on for ages about DA making a deal or WA or CA, one of them flipping. I was convinced of it. I now think there is zero chance of any of them cooperating with the State and admitting to even a minor level of complicity. They will maintain their innocence to their last breath. It doesn't make sense, but then they don't. Every time I think I've got them figured out, something happens to prove me wrong. They're twisted and broken. They seem to have love and loyalty and kindness, but paradoxically are filled with anger, hate, bitterness. You can't have both.

A cynical take is that in my opinion it is possible W could now be less worried about imminent arrest. Realistically in my opinion it could take at least a year for Donna to select another lawyer and get him up to speed, and then there is the matter of finding a trial date that works for everyone, and then of course, there are often continuances. Whether true or not, many legal experts I’ve seen seem to be of the opinion that W will not be arrested until Donna is tried because she is needed to testify and there may be fifth amendment considerations which will arise if she has been indicted when she is called to testify. (She can, and has, received limited immunity, but the rules may be different for people who have been indicted, they may be entitled to assert their privilege as to all questions, regardless of any immunity the state may be prepared to offer). W is a lawyer, and she has a very good lawyer from what I understand, so it’s possible in my opinion that she would know all of this.

In my opinion it is possible that Charlie, with the benefit of his conflict-free appellate attorney, might think he has a good chance of prevailing on the post-conviction issue of ineffective assistance of counsel. In my opinion it is possible this may motivate him, and his appellate lawyer, to seek a deal because they view themselves as being in a favorable position over the state. However, in my opinion it’s possible they may wish to proceed with their initial appeal first. (Ineffective assistance, in my understanding, is a claim for “post conviction” relief and cannot be argued in the first direct appeal, so Charlie, in my understanding, would have to pursue the direct appeal and lose on that first before he could raise the ineffective assistance issue.). In my opinion, it’s possible that after the direct appeal is completed, Charlie may be in a better position, in my opinion, to deal with the state because he can now bring a potential ineffective assistance claim which he stands a decent chance of winning (just my opinion). Again, W is a lawyer and has a good lawyer and it is possible she would know all of this, in my opinion.

Donna, assuming she would be willing to turn on her own daughter, might be interested in making a deal. In my opinion the state may have a significant interest in sparing themselves the time and expense of another trial, and thus she might be in an advantageous position at this point. This is something that, in my opinion, Charlie, W, and their lawyers might be aware if, and if so it might affect their own willingness to make a deal before Donna does, despite all the cynical factors I mentioned above which might cut against that.

All in all, in my opinion this thing with Rash and thrown a giant monkey wrench in this case, and it may be a long time before we see anything else happen.

 

[amicuscurie]

Tried to find the link noted in the original post that was quoted, but only able to find Patty’s Sunday You Tube channel. She indicates she filed a report with the Talhassee police against a person who threatened her. She provides background prior to 8 min mark. Very disturbing,if it turns out to be true.

One interesting thing to me about that call is the person helping them with all these arrangements, I believe she was referred to as Susan on the call. I believe she was on the witness list for Donna’s trial, and I believe she is a lawyer. In fact, if I recall correctly, she can be heard in the background if the hot mic call asking whether Wendi would contact the police if they informed her of their plans.

 

[B4igo2it]

Do you mean that their computers would have no trace of that email address? I think if they used burner phones and a different email account that was only accessed on those burner phones then yes that's pretty smart on their part. But with the Adelsons for every smart thing they did, they did 5 dumb things and ultimately they got caught...

I think we've all known that burner phones were used at some stage. They're dumb, but they've probably watched enough crime shows to understand the importance of burner phones. That said, they can still be traced. If they know a suspects actual mobile phone number and there is another number pinging from the same location as their mobile, then they have the burner number.

I have high hopes that WA had a burner also. That would be the icing on the cake.

 

[Going Rogue]

I have high hopes that WA had a burner also. That would be the icing on the cake.

If you look at the ‘flurry’ of phone calls between Donna & Charlie / Charlie & Katie / Katie & Sigfredo leading up to and the day of the murder AND the 18 minute call between Charlie & Wendi the morning of the murder, I don’t have any hopes burner phones will be recovered. If they all had burner phones, I do not believe we would not have the volume of calls recorded on all the arrest affidavits. We know Sigfredo & Katie purchased burner phones, but that was well after the murder after they were running scared. We also know Rivera had multiple phones based on his gang affiliation / activity. I can see Charlie purchasing another phone after the murder like Katie & Sigfredo did, but I don’t think that Wendi or Charlie had burner phones that they used for the murder.

 

[amicuscurie]

If you look at the ‘flurry’ of phone calls between Donna & Charlie / Charlie & Katie / Katie & Sigfredo leading up to and the day of the murder AND the 18 minute call between Charlie & Wendi the morning of the murder, I don’t have any hopes burner phones will be recovered. If they all had burner phones, I do not believe we would not have the volume of calls recorded on all the arrest affidavits. We know Sigfredo & Katie purchased burner phones, but that was well after the murder after they were running scared. We also know Rivera had multiple phones based on his gang affiliation / activity. I can see Charlie purchasing another phone after the murder like Katie & Sigfredo did, but I don’t think that Wendi or Charlie had burner phones that they used for the murder.

I don’t know anything about burner phones, but I do believe it’s possible hypothetically to have an email address that you don’t keep on your phone, you only access it via the web and nobody knows about it. It’s possible hypothetically that if you and another person knew of this account, you could use it to send messages to each other by logging into it and sending messages to “yourself” that the other person could then log in and check. It’s possible hypothetically someone might slip up and accidentally send a message to that account from their regular email address.

 

[Going Rogue]

I don’t know anything about burner phones, but I do believe it’s possible hypothetically to have an email address that you don’t keep on your phone, you only access it via the web and nobody knows about it. It’s possible hypothetically that if you and another person knew of this account, you could use it to send messages to each other by logging into it and sending messages to “yourself” that the other person could then log in and check. It’s possible hypothetically someone might slip up and accidentally send a message to that account from their regular email address.

Yes, anything is possible but IMO, that would have been too risky & too sloppy even for the maestro who I believe spearheaded all the logistics & communication flow between any of the Adelsons that were involved. The mistake he made was not coordinating any of the logistics or communication flow between his buffer and the hitmen.

 

[amicuscurie]

Yes, anything is possible but IMO, that would have been too risky & too sloppy even for the maestro who I believe spearheaded all the logistics & communication flow between any of the Adelsons that were involved. The mistake he made was not coordinating any of the logistics or communication flow between his buffer and the hitmen.

I believe nothing is too risky or sloppy for these people, but that’s just my opinion.

 

[Sustained]

I believe nothing is too risky or sloppy for these people, but that’s just my opinion.

Your opinion is substantiated by looking at hiring two hitmen who traveled from Miami to Tallahassee on Florida toll roads in a uniquely colored Prius if not many other circumstances.

 

[IQuestion]

I don’t know anything about burner phones, but I do believe it’s possible hypothetically to have an email address that you don’t keep on your phone, you only access it via the web and nobody knows about it. It’s possible hypothetically that if you and another person knew of this account, you could use it to send messages to each other by logging into it and sending messages to “yourself” that the other person could then log in and check. It’s possible hypothetically someone might slip up and accidentally send a message to that account from their regular email address.

Your opinion always carries a lot of weight with me and probably many more readers. As always you force us to look deep into what could have occurred. You are on the right track about people sharing the same e-mail account and sending an e-mail just to themselves and the co-conspirators have access to that e-mail account. But even more sneaky, IMO is all co-conspirators to have access to/share the e-mail account. The co-cons (short for co-conspirator, ok?...don't want anyone to get their knickers twisted) just have to log in and 1) Type out the email with the information that needs to be shared with the other co-cons 2) Then save the typed e-mail as a "DRAFT" 3) The other co-cons can open the email account and read the draft.....Voila nothing is ever sent!!

 

[amicuscurie]

Your opinion always carries a lot of weight with me and probably many more readers. As always you force us to look deep into what could have occurred. You are on the right track about people sharing the same e-mail account and sending an e-mail just to themselves and the co-conspirators have access to that e-mail account. But even more sneaky, IMO is all co-conspirators to have access to/share the e-mail account. The co-cons (short for co-conspirator, ok?...don't want anyone to get their knickers twisted) just have to log in and 1) Type out the email with the information that needs to be shared with the other co-cons 2) Then save the typed e-mail as a "DRAFT" 3) The other co-cons can open the email account and read the draft.....Voila nothing is ever sent!!

Wow, that’s pretty brilliant!

 

[Zedzded]

Yes, anything is possible but IMO, that would have been too risky & too sloppy even for the maestro who I believe spearheaded all the logistics & communication flow between any of the Adelsons that were involved. The mistake he made was not coordinating any of the logistics or communication flow between his buffer and the hitmen.

Yup I concur. Don't think they'd be that sloppy.

 

[Knitpicker]

The family heirloom, if we are talking about the ring, was not misplaced or accidentally taken, as far as I understand. In my understanding, Wendi took it with her when she left. At her deposition in the divorce, I believe, she said she would give it back if Dan’s elderly uncle, who it had belonged to, asked her personally. From what I understand, he did ask her, and she did not give it back.

Right. He wrote her a letter.

 

[IQuestion]

Sometimes when a case hits a lull, I start reading old posts and deep (really deep) diving as I try to figure out connections, codes and "coincidences." And as agent Muldaur once said, "I don't believe in coincidences." So try this one out!
Charlie's nickname in high school was 'Screech." Same as the character "Screech" from Saved by The Bell: "He is very comfortable with his geekiness and fancies himself a ladies' man." (Familiar?) And Screech's mother???:His mother, Roberta, is an obssessive Elvis Presley fan with tons of merchandise.

Screech Powers

Samuel "Screech" Powers is the tritagonist in Saved by the Bell. He was a fixture for the entire run of the series and the franchise, appearing in Good Morning, Miss Bliss, Saved by the Bell, Saved by the Bell: The College Years and Saved by the Bell: The New Class. He passed away in between the...

savedbythebell.fandom.com

From our greatly missed contributor @cottonweaver who posted this snippet on DA's other nickname for DM:

• Oct 29, 2023

• #76

A few snippets on the custody wranglings
From the Donna emails
- she has another moniker for Dan which I'd forgotten. It was ' Elvis'
- Donna suggests more threats Wendi can use such as ..... suggest that Elvis requires 'psychological testing' because he is so ' off' and that this should be raised before any plan to take the boys to Canada to see the Merkels.
Anyway, what are the chances both guys nicknamed Screech both had mothers obsessed with Elvis? (I'll grab my coffe and quietly slip out of the room now 'cuz the wierd meter really spiked on this one.)

https://www.survivalistboards.com/media/mulder-on-coincidences-jpg.107830/

 

[Harriett_Eva]

Not sure if it’s been posted or of interest, but here are some positive ways Dan Markel’s memory is being honored and good coming from this tragic crime

Dan Markel murder anniversary: Justice for Dan launches Markel Award for Criminal Law Theory

On the 10th anniversary of Dan Markel’s murder, Justice for Dan launches the Markel Award for Best Paper in Criminal Law Theory to honor his legacy of scholarship and teaching

floridapolitics.com

MARKELLOQUIUM!

NEXT MEETING

www.markelloquium.org

 

[Knitpicker]

Sometimes when a case hits a lull, I start reading old posts and deep (really deep) diving as I try to figure out connections, codes and "coincidences." And as agent Muldaur once said, "I don't believe in coincidences." So try this one out!
Charlie's nickname in high school was 'Screech." Same as the character "Screech" from Saved by The Bell: "He is very comfortable with his geekiness and fancies himself a ladies' man." (Familiar?) And Screech's mother???:His mother, Roberta, is an obssessive Elvis Presley fan with tons of merchandise.

Screech Powers

Samuel "Screech" Powers is the tritagonist in Saved by the Bell. He was a fixture for the entire run of the series and the franchise, appearing in Good Morning, Miss Bliss, Saved by the Bell, Saved by the Bell: The College Years and Saved by the Bell: The New Class. He passed away in between the...

savedbythebell.fandom.com

From our greatly missed contributor @cottonweaver who posted this snippet on DA's other nickname for DM:

• Oct 29, 2023
• #76

A few snippets on the custody wranglings
From the Donna emails
- she has another moniker for Dan which I'd forgotten. It was ' Elvis'
- Donna suggests more threats Wendi can use such as ..... suggest that Elvis requires 'psychological testing' because he is so ' off' and that this should be raised before any plan to take the boys to Canada to see the Merkels.
Anyway, what are the chances both guys nicknamed Screech both had mothers obsessed with Elvis? (I'll grab my coffe and quietly slip out of the room now 'cuz the wierd meter really spiked on this one.)

https://www.survivalistboards.com/media/mulder-on-coincidences-jpg.107830/

Interesting…was just looking at him on Wiki (knew nothing about him or the show he was on)
He was on Weakest link-Wendi was on it.
He loved pro wrestling.-Charlie wrestled, right? Didn’t he have some lawsuit connect w/wrestling?

“He stirred controversy with his 2009 book “Behind the Bell,” in which Diamond shared backstage stories about shooting the series with some of his accounts being less than flattering to his costars.

He also faced some legal troubles, serving three months in jail for stabbing a man during a 2014 altercation at a bar in Wisconsin.”

 

[cottonweaver]

Sometimes when a case hits a lull, I start reading old posts and deep (really deep) diving as I try to figure out connections, codes and "coincidences." And as agent Muldaur once said, "I don't believe in coincidences." So try this one out!
Charlie's nickname in high school was 'Screech." Same as the character "Screech" from Saved by The Bell: "He is very comfortable with his geekiness and fancies himself a ladies' man." (Familiar?) And Screech's mother???:His mother, Roberta, is an obssessive Elvis Presley fan with tons of merchandise.

Screech Powers

Samuel "Screech" Powers is the tritagonist in Saved by the Bell. He was a fixture for the entire run of the series and the franchise, appearing in Good Morning, Miss Bliss, Saved by the Bell, Saved by the Bell: The College Years and Saved by the Bell: The New Class. He passed away in between the...

savedbythebell.fandom.com

From our greatly missed contributor @cottonweaver who posted this snippet on DA's other nickname for DM:

• Oct 29, 2023
• #76

A few snippets on the custody wranglings
From the Donna emails
- she has another moniker for Dan which I'd forgotten. It was ' Elvis'
- Donna suggests more threats Wendi can use such as ..... suggest that Elvis requires 'psychological testing' because he is so ' off' and that this should be raised before any plan to take the boys to Canada to see the Merkels.
Anyway, what are the chances both guys nicknamed Screech both had mothers obsessed with Elvis? (I'll grab my coffe and quietly slip out of the room now 'cuz the wierd meter really spiked on this one.)

https://www.survivalistboards.com/media/mulder-on-coincidences-jpg.107830/

that's funny and there are so many strange coincidences in this torturous case.
Charlie really does look like Screech.

Maybe even Donna was a Presley fan in her days? Late Elvis or early Elvis? ( I'm an early Elvis fan but I can visualise that flashy decor in the Coral Springs home and Donna in her prime playing Las Vegas Elvis, dialled-up high, singing along while gazing adoringly at her two darlings playing tennis outside the kitchen window )


-----

Everything is on the table so I'll throw another possibility into the mix of Adelson codes and subtexts. 'For your consideration ... '

'Elvis has left the building'

At the time I posted that on the 2023 thread, the only thing which sparked was ' Elvis has left the building' because, for me , it's something people say - pop culture black humour - when somebody famous has died. ( Appreciate it meant something different when Elvis was alive)

I had assumed it started there. That the Adelson's had long joked that Elvis would be leaving the building soon. I can't recall the date of the Epstein letter now but vaguely recall it coincided with the failed hit attempt and predated Halloween 2023 which is our kinda Ground Zero, evidentially

IDK why Georgia never made it a thing when she crossed Charlie or examined Wendi on the witness stand. Perhaps she's saving it for Donna, if she takes the stand ?
Georgia to Wendi: ' Jibbers', ' *advertiser censored**hole ', ‘ *advertiser censored*ker’ ' B**tard' ........
I would certainly ask it if I were in Georgia's shoes. 'Elvis' ' second biggest mistake' while projecting a photo of Dan on the screen for the jurors. (OFC Donna will have prepped an excuse but hey...)
Newlin should ask around too. Queen of the Quips probably bandied ' Elvis' name around too? ( Wendi the great wit. ) Newlin could ask Macpherson types. Not Griggs types.


------

Yes those old threads are good, I reread some of the Charlie trial live comments. Quality!
I'm afraid I reached Peak Adelson with the Rashbaum Debacle and, instead, caught up with other cases which are heading to trial. Donna's trial feels so long away now. ( What a supreme waste of time, rereading all the Adelson stuff in advance of her September trial date)
However..... having just imagined Donna in her heyday I can almost get re-interested in the Adelsons

Anyway, IF this is the true meaning of the Elvis quip, I wonder who first coined the macabre joke of Dan = Elvis
The Elvis who was soon to leave the building?
Donna?

Or perhaps it was Charlie?
Tyler the Creator was breakout around the time of the Wendi divorce and custody battle. Tyler used the phrase in one of his tracks , to the sound of gunshots. Charlie listened to hip hop and rap and perceived himself as gangsta and cool. Could that have sparked it? Yes, I admit, it's a stretch but it's the Adelsons so everything is possible....

ETA:
Failed hit? The one which cannot be proven where Donna loses her upfront $50K payment. The one Jeff mentioned, previous summer
Halloween? That romantic first date proposal CA - KM: ' Do you know somebody who can hurt somebody...?.' or whatever his words were


credits: Getty Images

 

[amicuscurie]

View attachment 535549
that's funny and there are so many strange coincidences in this torturous case.
Charlie really does look like Screech.

Maybe even Donna was a Presley fan in her days? Late Elvis or early Elvis? ( I'm an early Elvis fan but I can visualise that flashy decor in the Coral Springs home and Donna in her prime playing Las Vegas Elvis, dialled-up high, singing along while gazing adoringly at her two darlings playing tennis outside the kitchen window )


-----

Everything is on the table so I'll throw another possibility into the mix of Adelson codes and subtexts. 'For your consideration ... '

'Elvis has left the building'

At the time I posted that on the 2023 thread, the only thing which sparked was ' Elvis has left the building' because, for me , it's something people say - pop culture black humour - when somebody famous has died. ( Appreciate it meant something different when Elvis was alive)

I had assumed it started there. That the Adelson's had long joked that Elvis would be leaving the building soon. I can't recall the date of the Epstein letter now but vaguely recall it coincided with the failed hit attempt and predated Halloween 2023 which is our kinda Ground Zero, evidentially

IDK why Georgia never made it a thing when she crossed Charlie or examined Wendi on the witness stand. Perhaps she's saving it for Donna, if she takes the stand ?
Georgia to Wendi: ' Jibbers', ' *advertiser censored**hole ', ‘ *advertiser censored*ker’ ' B**tard' ........
I would certainly ask it if I were in Georgia's shoes. 'Elvis' ' second biggest mistake' while projecting a photo of Dan on the screen for the jurors. (OFC Donna will have prepped an excuse but hey...)
Newlin should ask around too. Queen of the Quips probably bandied ' Elvis' name around too? ( Wendi the great wit. ) Newlin could ask Macpherson types. Not Griggs types.


------

Yes those old threads are good, I reread some of the Charlie trial live comments. Quality!
I'm afraid I reached Peak Adelson with the Rashbaum Debacle and, instead, caught up with other cases which are heading to trial. Donna's trial feels so long away now. ( What a supreme waste of time, rereading all the Adelson stuff in advance of her September trial date)
However..... having just imagined Donna in her heyday I can almost get re-interested in the Adelsons

Anyway, IF this is the true meaning of the Elvis quip, I wonder who first coined the macabre joke of Dan = Elvis
The Elvis who was soon to leave the building?
Donna?

Or perhaps it was Charlie?
Tyler the Creator was breakout around the time of the Wendi divorce and custody battle. Tyler used the phrase in one of his tracks , to the sound of gunshots. Charlie listened to hip hop and rap and perceived himself as gangsta and cool. Could that have sparked it? Yes, I admit, it's a stretch but it's the Adelsons so everything is possible....

ETA:
Failed hit? The one which cannot be proven where Donna loses her upfront $50K payment. The one Jeff mentioned, previous summer
Halloween? That romantic first date proposal CA - KM: ' Do you know somebody who can hurt somebody...?.' or whatever his words were


credits: Getty Images

View attachment 535571

In my opinion I think it’s possible she called him Elvis because (from what I understand) he was apparently regarded as such a superstar in the legal world. She appears to me from her emails to have been extremely frustrated with him and his lengthy legal filings, and she appears to me from those emails to have believed he was beating them with the judge. I certainly think it’s also possible that someone made an “Elvis has left the building” joke at some point, if this is a nickname that was used often.