FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #12

[htiff]

Yes, thank you. Even after all this time the family has still not been told when the phones ceased to work, were powered off, were thrown into water etc.

I'll listen to that episode again. But there is no way to know why a phone stops pinging if you don't have the phone.

 

[liz b.]

Is it true that both local LE and the FBI have stopped taking tips ?

 

[htiff]

Is it true that both local LE and the FBI have stopped taking tips ?

I don't think that LE would ever stop accepting tips on an open case. Was this also in an Unconcluded episode?

 

[htiff]

OK. I just re-listened to Unconcluded re: the powering down of the phones. I'm pretty certain that the information being given there, is wrong--in regard to the batteries being removed. I don't think that you can know if a battery has been removed from a phone, if you don't have the phone.

How would anyone know this? If the battery were removed from a cell phone, all this would do is render the phone inactive.

Strange.

 

[liz b.]

OK. I just re-listened to Unconcluded re: the powering down of the phones. I'm pretty certain that the information being given there, is wrong--in regard to the batteries being removed. I don't think that you can know if a battery has been removed from a phone, if you don't have the phone.

How would anyone know this? If the battery were removed from a cell phone, all this would do is render the phone inactive.

Strange.

yes, true about the batteries. the significant points,imo are : both phones went silent at the same time, and LE knows when that time was. jmo,though.

 

[liz b.]

OK. I just re-listened to Unconcluded re: the powering down of the phones. I'm pretty certain that the information being given there, is wrong--in regard to the batteries being removed. I don't think that you can know if a battery has been removed from a phone, if you don't have the phone.

How would anyone know this? If the battery were removed from a cell phone, all this would do is render the phone inactive.

Strange.

But, why would anyone give out false info after all this time ?

 

[htiff]

But, why would anyone give out false info after all this time ?

If you listen to the full podcast of that episode, Jennifer's mother states that there is information that simply isn't known about when Jennifer's phone stopped pinging and what it might mean when it did stop pinging, and that the reporting on the cell phones has been inaccurate. LE never told the family or the public exactly what they know about the phones.

What has been reported regarding the cell phones and their usage has apparently always been wrong. Assumptions were made and published, without enough verification of the facts. This happens a lot in missing persons cases.

 

[htiff]

The other thing that Jennifer's mother touches on in the Unconcluded podcast is that one reason LE at first thought Jennifer went missing at night, was because her phone pinged a tower that seemed to indicate her traveling away from her apartment that night, but Jennifer's mother added that the tower nearest Jennifer's home may have been in the process of repair or upgrade, so Jennifer could have pinged a tower farther away, even if home.

One of the issues with identifying location by way of phone pings is that there are reasons a phone might ping a tower, that aren't due to the caller being close to that tower. In theory a phone will always ping the nearest tower, but if the nearest tower is disabled, or if it is being used to capacity, then a call will get bumped to a tower farther away.

 

[htiff]

I think for the general public, Jennifer's car is all we really have to go by. And if her car never got far, there's a good chance Jennifer never got that far away, either (while alive).

 

[liz b.]

If you listen to the full podcast of that episode, Jennifer's mother states that there is information that simply isn't known about when Jennifer's phone stopped pinging and what it might mean when it did stop pinging, and that the reporting on the cell phones has been inaccurate. LE never told the family or the public exactly what they know about the phones.

What has been reported regarding the cell phones and their usage has apparently always been wrong. Assumptions were made and published, without enough verification of the facts. This happens a lot in missing persons cases.

Yes, I agree,both about the phones and the info released. I have seen false, incorrect info in almost every case I've followed.

 

[liz b.]

I think for the general public, Jennifer's car is all we really have to go by. And if her car never got far, there's a good chance Jennifer never got that far away, either (while alive).

Is it known where that car is now ? It's as close to a crime scene as we have, imo.

 

[Brainy]

Someone out there knows who the person in the video is. Someone out there knows who killed Jennifer but is not coming forward. Unfortunately, we are at the mercy of that person as everything seems to be leading to a dead end. There is so much information, so many potential perpetrators, even a video of a person who is involved in Jennifer's abduction... and then nothing.

They should continue questioning people, and showing the grainy picture if the person caught in camera. Even with no face, if they know that person, they will be able to identify him.


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[Brainy]

I think he kidnapped her at her car, took her some place and did what he did. then used the car to get back to that area, so he could walk home. I am thinking home was that complex. Perhaps temporarily.

Very good thinking.

I also believe that it's what really happened. I find it fascinating and maddening that this person was never identified.


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[JnRyan]

Is it known where that car is now ? It's as close to a crime scene as we have, imo.

I don't know if it was one of the shows like Disappeared or in a press conference, but I believe Jennifer's dad, Drew, stated they stopped making the lease payments on the car and it went back to the lease company. I don't believe LE has it. I hope I'm wrong on that part.

 

[marable]

I don't know if it was one of the shows like Disappeared or in a press conference, but I believe Jennifer's dad, Drew, stated they stopped making the lease payments on the car and it went back to the lease company. I don't believe LE has it. I hope I'm wrong on that part.

I read that the car went back to the leasing company as well ....Joyce made the comment that she couldn't bear to look at Jennifers car as she believed that Jennifer was abducted from or near the car....

 

[rd_jfc]

there is no evidence of struggle outside the apt or near the car.
He coud have had a key , he enterd the apt with a key
with a gun/knife force jennifer out of the apt taking the phone and car keys with her .
The other missing things briefcase , shoes were in the car so they ended up misding as well.
he parked his car somewhere in the mosaic. If he worked in the office he could have parked his car there.

BBM

from Nancy Grace transcript:

SGT. RICHARD RING, ORLANDO POLICE DEPARTMENT: ...we believe that she was in or near that vehicle during the time of her abduction.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/22/ng.01.html

end quote

 

[rd_jfc]

I don't believe the abductor took the phones intentionally, but rather Jennifer had them both on her when she was abducted and the abductor found out later. Of course, when would she likely have both phones and it would seem that would be when she was leaving the apartment that morning. Another argument for a morning abduction. (However, I could see an argument that Jennifer had his phone in her briefcase and she put the briefcase in her car the night before.) I'm leaning toward a morning abduction, but I'm keeping an open mind about one that night.

We've heard her briefcase and possibly her purse were never found. I can imagine that whoever did this hid a body first and then went about disposing the briefcase and purse and it was then they may discovered the phones. This is 2006 and I only just purchased my 2nd cell phone a year before and that 2nd phone had texting capability. I'm trying to think back and remember hearing about phone pings and their importance in LE investigations in 2006. I'm sure we did, but I'm thinking it wasn't as widely known as it is now. Would a laborer, especially one who might be an illegal alien, know about such technology in 2006? The elimination of the phones by turning them both off would lead me to believe this wasn't likely one of the workers.

I still find the fact that Jennifer had two phones on her and this doesn't help LE. I'm sure it is entirely possible that both phones pinged on the same cell tower. But didn't LE or Drew Kesse state something to the effect that Jennifer couldn't be in two places at the same time? Were the phones pinging off two cell towers? If that were so, wouldn't that make it easier to triangulate the position where both were turned off?

<modsnip>

There's a couple of problems with this. Recording pings is not something that changed from 2006 to a few years later whenever he made this post. I thought it was around 2013-2014 time frame but I've seen some earlier dates given. A tower records communications with a cellphone. It either did or it didn't. There's nothing inexact about it.

A cellphone can switch back and forth between two towers within range. I am assuming this is what is being referred to in that the cellphone was recorded by two towers miles apart a few seconds apart. This is not unusual, especially if the phone is moving. You'd expect behavior like this if the phone is moving due to having the controlling tower temporarily obstructed so the cellphone switches to another tower and then back.

<modsnip>

 

[rd_jfc]

I think the official report on the two phones in Jennifer's possession, was that they were "powered-down" by 10pm on the 23rd. But this may simply mean they didn't ping. Doesn't mean that the battery was removed, or that they were turned-off. They could have been in airport mode.

The fact that Jennifer left her mace at home, might mean that the second phone took up space in her purse, so she had to make a choice not to take mace with her on that day...

It is interesting that the abductor/s would take the purse, but not any other valuables. Perhaps the purse was kept as a trophy of sorts. Or it was disposed of with Jennifer. There are swamps around Orlando.

It's not exactly official, it's the next best thing we have, information posted by the Kesses. He states they went silent at 10:40pm by manual shutdown and presumed removal of cell batteries.

I posted on this a few weeks back, did research back in 2007 and again a few weeks ago, and probably have done some searching on cell phone technology every few years because it keeps coming up. It was involved in both Laci Peterson's and Theresa Parker's murder cases and who knows how many others, I retired from following new cases around that time.

You can't get a decent answer from a search on removal of batteries but the gist of it I think is that some phones are said to ping even when turned off although it be more paranoia talking there than anything fact based.

However I did speculate one thing which I couldn't confirm with a search, and that might be (and I would suspect expected to be) a coded signal to the tower to notify ending transmission. The lack of this signal (and it would be lacking in two different phones at about same time) after last ping would indicate presumed removal of batteries INSTEAD OF manual shutdown and going through shutdown process.

So there's a couple of speculations. The presumed removal of batteries after a manual shutdown is highly speculative in that I would think it's not common to have a phone model that continues to ping after power off. I didn't even see a solid list of any such phones if there are any. That's referring to designed behavior from the phone manufacturer, not any of the phone was hacked to spy on you stuff.

I wouldn't be suprised to see that there's some indication of going through a shutdown process to the tower, but then they wouldn't have said manual shutdown because the indication of it would be missing. So I'd have to go with the phantom pings after power off are missing because of battery removal except we wouldn't expect those pings anyway. So not a solid logical conclusion to draw.

 

[rd_jfc]

Is it true that both local LE and the FBI have stopped taking tips ?

What I saw some years ago was a disturbing statement by the family I think that Orlando Police considered the case turned over to the FBI and the FBI didn't consider it its case. So they sort of refer people to each other seems to be the gist of it.

I don't know if that's changed since then but the only thing Orlando Police ever did was searches based on tips and they probably consider that scenario played out by now.

I'm going to guess that the one thing police count on, that being someone naming someone for another crime to try to save their own skin, they would accept a drop a name as a tip irregardless.

 

[British99]

<modsnip>

Rd: you are ignoring the more recent statement from Jennifer's mother which is they were never told when the phones were powered off.

Why do you accept one statement but not the other more recent statement by Jennifer's mother?

Look forward to your reasoning.