FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #12

[wpaylor]

Thank you for this info, wpaylor. First I've seen anything definitive on that, and helpful.

Having said that, I'm a graybeard computer type and done a lot of communications programming in my time. While I haven't dealt with cell tower ping programming, I'm comfortable with what's going on with it having researched this several times.

I've read Drew Kesse commenting on this and saying that pretty directly, and I've commented before on it but bears repeating here. The "not reliable" thing is not relevant, and as far as I'm concerned is probably still "not reliable" the way Kesse is thinking of it. What he is going on about is this notion that a cell tower in contact with a cell phone is not always the closest cell tower to the phone. That is known, has always been known, and cell tower pings were never a guarantee of location of the phone. That isn't the issue at all, although of course any clue as to whereabouts is helpful.

Drew referenced this with his "a phone can't be in two places at once" comment, I believe in that technical post. I've explained repeatedly in posts that a cell phone can jump from contact with one tower to another and maybe back, and maybe back quickly, especially when moving. If a signal is blocked or weakened due to structures a tower further away may be strongest signal, and then when closest tower's signal regains strength may become controlling tower again.

This is not a big deal at all, and is actually helpful as it provides triangulation information as to what part of cell tower area phone was in when switching back and forth. Lemonade should have been made out of this, and instead you have this silly stuff.

Moreover, the only important thing is when did activity from each of these phones stop? When were they last heard from, anywhere?

Now someone who knows something about the data may say "well, there was no data, and it's probably because pings were that reliable in 2006" yada yada, which could be blah blah blah stuff that amounts to we have no stinkin data. Fine, whatever, just out with it.

On the other hand the "two places" comment implied there was some data, and the question is when activity stop for each phone? That doesn't guarantee that the phone wasn't still on and ping data no longer available, but it does say how long the phones were active. Geez, this is 101 stuff. I shouldn't have to post stuff like this for OPD/Verizon whatever.

Now unless an amateur blogger was making up some wild stories for Kesse, the both phones stopping at 10:40 pm is really specific stuff. The "not reliable" stuff is pure silliness. We're not talking about pseudo pseudo GPS (because there is actually pseudo GPS), we're talking about how long were the phones active that we know of.

That is all. Quit making excuses OPD and get with the program.

One could almost wonder if the OPD could have brought in the so-called "expert" to deliberately confuse the issue for Mr. Kesse.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[rd_jfc]

Mr. Kesse brought out the point that Facebook was not in existence in 2006 and Google may have been in it's infancy. He said that texting was new and that the letters still were shared with the numbers to text. LOL I forget that the things we enjoy today are still relatively new, seems like it has always been. I wonder if Facebook, texting, Google Earth, etc. were in existence in 2006, how fast Jennifer would have been found.

Just FYI for all, Google started becoming well known in 1998 to 1999. I switched over to them as my search engine. I did all my work on Chandra Levy case in 2001 to writing a book on it in 2004 using it. By then I don't think there was a competitive search engine. It was post the original search engines pretty much except Yahoo bought one of the originals. It was before Bing and some foreign engines really got traction.

In any event, I noted in preamble to book that phpBB (board software used by the main Chandra sites) and Google made it all possible. So the Google part of it is not true/relevant. The social media aspect of it that people started doing is of course true, quite frankly with the garbage out there not sure how helpful that stuff is. Maybe one can believe that twits that so and so is missing has an impact that you don;t have with Orlando paper articles of police announcements, etc., but in my opinion wishful thinking. A search would being you relevant social channels, but also relevant boards. And search engines did take you to WS for Jennfer Kesse.

 

[rd_jfc]

One could almost wonder if the OPD could have brought in the so-called "expert" to deliberately confuse the issue for Mr. Kesse.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

The scary part is how right that may be.

Wanted to thank you again for the info you're posting. Really helpful stuff and appreciated.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Thank you for this info, wpaylor. First I've seen anything definitive on that, and helpful.

Having said that, I'm a graybeard computer type and done a lot of communications programming in my time. While I haven't dealt with cell tower ping programming, I'm comfortable with what's going on with it having researched this several times.

I've read Drew Kesse commenting on this and saying that pretty directly, and I've commented before on it but bears repeating here. The "not reliable" thing is not relevant, and as far as I'm concerned is probably still "not reliable" the way Kesse is thinking of it. What he is going on about is this notion that a cell tower in contact with a cell phone is not always the closest cell tower to the phone. That is known, has always been known, and cell tower pings were never a guarantee of location of the phone. That isn't the issue at all, although of course any clue as to whereabouts is helpful.

Drew referenced this with his "a phone can't be in two places at once" comment, I believe in that technical post. I've explained repeatedly in posts that a cell phone can jump from contact with one tower to another and maybe back, and maybe back quickly, especially when moving. If a signal is blocked or weakened due to structures a tower further away may be strongest signal, and then when closest tower's signal regains strength may become controlling tower again.

This is not a big deal at all, and is actually helpful as it provides triangulation information as to what part of cell tower area phone was in when switching back and forth. Lemonade should have been made out of this, and instead you have this silly stuff.

Moreover, the only important thing is when did activity from each of these phones stop? When were they last heard from, anywhere?

Now someone who knows something about the data may say "well, there was no data, and it's probably because pings were that reliable in 2006" yada yada, which could be blah blah blah stuff that amounts to we have no stinkin data. Fine, whatever, just out with it.

On the other hand the "two places" comment implied there was some data, and the question is when activity stop for each phone? That doesn't guarantee that the phone wasn't still on and ping data no longer available, but it does say how long the phones were active. Geez, this is 101 stuff. I shouldn't have to post stuff like this for OPD/Verizon whatever.

Now unless an amateur blogger was making up some wild stories for Kesse, the both phones stopping at 10:40 pm is really specific stuff. The "not reliable" stuff is pure silliness. We're not talking about pseudo pseudo GPS (because there is actually pseudo GPS), we're talking about how long were the phones active that we know of.

That is all. Quit making excuses OPD and get with the program.

Mr. Kesse actually mentions that there were maybe 11 pings--all of wich he concludes as being totally ridiculous.

Also, he confirms that the final event of the "phones" plural occurred in the evening of the 23rd. He changes the time frame to between 10:20 pm and 10:40 pm.

I found that interesting--I had never heard a number given for the amount of pings. Thought I'd share.

 

[liz b.]

Thank you for this info, wpaylor. First I've seen anything definitive on that, and helpful.

Having said that, I'm a graybeard computer type and done a lot of communications programming in my time. While I haven't dealt with cell tower ping programming, I'm comfortable with what's going on with it having researched this several times.

I've read Drew Kesse commenting on this and saying that pretty directly, and I've commented before on it but bears repeating here. The "not reliable" thing is not relevant, and as far as I'm concerned is probably still "not reliable" the way Kesse is thinking of it. What he is going on about is this notion that a cell tower in contact with a cell phone is not always the closest cell tower to the phone. That is known, has always been known, and cell tower pings were never a guarantee of location of the phone. That isn't the issue at all, although of course any clue as to whereabouts is helpful.

Drew referenced this with his "a phone can't be in two places at once" comment, I believe in that technical post. I've explained repeatedly in posts that a cell phone can jump from contact with one tower to another and maybe back, and maybe back quickly, especially when moving. If a signal is blocked or weakened due to structures a tower further away may be strongest signal, and then when closest tower's signal regains strength may become controlling tower again.

This is not a big deal at all, and is actually helpful as it provides triangulation information as to what part of cell tower area phone was in when switching back and forth. Lemonade should have been made out of this, and instead you have this silly stuff.

Moreover, the only important thing is when did activity from each of these phones stop? When were they last heard from, anywhere?

Now someone who knows something about the data may say "well, there was no data, and it's probably because pings were that reliable in 2006" yada yada, which could be blah blah blah stuff that amounts to we have no stinkin data. Fine, whatever, just out with it.

On the other hand the "two places" comment implied there was some data, and the question is when activity stop for each phone? That doesn't guarantee that the phone wasn't still on and ping data no longer available, but it does say how long the phones were active. Geez, this is 101 stuff. I shouldn't have to post stuff like this for OPD/Verizon whatever.

Now unless an amateur blogger was making up some wild stories for Kesse, the both phones stopping at 10:40 pm is really specific stuff. The "not reliable" stuff is pure silliness. We're not talking about pseudo pseudo GPS (because there is actually pseudo GPS), we're talking about how long were the phones active that we know of.

That is all. Quit making excuses OPD and get with the program.

Great post,TY ! I was wondering about the time given for both phones being disabled. It seems so specific. Wonder where Mr. Kesse got that info ? I'm still not even sure when JK was abducted, that night or the next morning. Just looking for things to try to clarify.

 

[rd_jfc]

Mr. Kesse actually mentions that there were maybe 11 pings--all of wich he concludes as being totally ridiculous.

Also, he confirms that the final event of the "phones" plural occurred in the evening of the 23rd. He changes the time frame to between 10:20 pm and 10:40 pm.

I found that interesting--I had never heard a number given for the amount of pings. Thought I'd share.

Replying to both you and Liz, Truth. Thanks for this more specific info and pointed questions.

Here's another question. Why in the world would he consider 11 pings ridiculous? Also of interest is if the 11 are combined from the two phones or all from one phone. Each ping involves the ID of the cell phone. It is not something that just happens like a ghost signal or something. Each of those pings says that the phone was in the area and on. And that is critical info.

Another critical piece of info is the time of the pings. Did they accelerate in number before stopping? That suggests moving. Pinging more than one tower suggests moving. By "stopping" we mean that is last ping recorded. If there was any bunching of pings before the last one that suggests the phone(s) were moved.

The stopping can be one of batteries pulled, phones dropped in water, or driven out of distance of towers that were interrogated. Given that Jennifer has never been found in the area, driving out of the area can't be disregarded. The gas gauge thing means nothing when you start driving the previous night.

I am absolutely baffled why the valuable data of 11 pings is considered ridiculous.

And more importantly, how in the world both phones never being heard from again around same time is anything but the most valuable of data as to what happened to Jennifer.

 

[Ozoner]

3. Colleague hours late for work , on day of disappearance.

This is #1 for me.

I do think the knock was probably her abductor, but a knock doesn't point to a specific suspect.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Replying to both you and Liz, Truth. Thanks for this more specific info and pointed questions.

Here's another question. Why in the world would he consider 11 pings ridiculous?

It sounds to me like LE approached the Kesse's with words to imply they did not know their daughter. That deeply offended them. Just for thought sake, consider this was around the time the Jennifer lookalike was on the radar of law enforcement.

Also of interest is if the 11 are combined from the two phones or all from one phone. Each ping involves the ID of the cell phone. It is not something that just happens like a ghost signal or something. Each of those pings says that the phone was in the area and on. And that is critical info.

BBM - He doesn't clarify this. In my opinion, the pings came from Jennifer's cell phone because Travis' phone was off.

This is only my opinion but I stick with it. Phones, even in 2006, gave a "final event" ping. Experts can recognize this ping from the others and it always sounds to me as if Mr. Kesse is describing this event when he discusses the phones either being destroyed or having their batteries removed.

That is why Travis' phone sent it's final ping--even when powered down. They still have the ability to connect with a tower one final time if they are being rendered useless. It is like someone taking their lives and they scream.

The "new" time of between 10:20 pm and 10:40 pm fits succinctly. It would be hard to destroy them both at once.

And interestingly enough, both Mr. and Mrs. Kesse have been fairly consistent with the information of this "final event" ping coming from both phones. Most of their issues seem to be concerning the pings that show movement.

They believe she was abducted in the morning. She didn't go out the night before. The rest has to be hogwash/law enforcement bull. Could be, who knows?

Another critical piece of info is the time of the pings. Did they accelerate in number before stopping? That suggests moving. Pinging more than one tower suggests moving. By "stopping" we mean that is last ping recorded. If there was any bunching of pings before the last one that suggests the phone(s) were moved.

The pings suggest movement. They place the phones in an area where Mr. & Mrs. Kesse believe wholeheartedly that Jennifer would never go. Especially at that hour.

Mr. Kesse says he even recently spoke to someone in law enforcement who put him in touch with someone from Verizon. Apparently they all think the pings are crap, crap and nothing more than crap.

I say give it to a prosecutor--they get the real experts in. Not local, but from the head office. Those guys know what they are looking at.

The stopping can be one of batteries pulled, phones dropped in water, or driven out of distance of towers that were interrogated. Given that Jennifer has never been found in the area, driving out of the area can't be disregarded. The gas gauge thing means nothing when you start driving the previous night.

I am absolutely baffled why the valuable data of 11 pings is considered ridiculous.

The car didn't have to be driven far to get to a very rough neighborhood, is my understanding. Anyway, he describes one ping as being in area "A", for example; then it quickly swings to area "B," which is 20 to 30 miles away. He says. Obviously, he doesn't understand (even as much as I do) about tower shifting.

And more importantly, how in the world both phones never being heard from again around same time is anything but the most valuable of data as to what happened to Jennifer.

Yes, I agree with this. Because at this point, it doesn't matter whether she went missing PM of the 23rd or AM of the 24th. She has been missing for 12 years.

And if she did not have her purse or briefcase with her that means she did not simply shove the phones in something she was carrying with her as she headed out the door.

The above is simply an opinion post from me, I recommend you listen for yourself.

Here is the link. Most of it is clear; a little is garbled.

https://audioboom.com/posts/6334818-going-forward

 

[Myserty64]

Everyone is aware this is one tough case to solve.
How is LE going to do this?

Firstly we need a crime scene.

What is your best guess as to where the crime scene is?

 

[wpaylor]

Replying to both you and Liz, Truth. Thanks for this more specific info and pointed questions.

Here's another question. Why in the world would he consider 11 pings ridiculous? Also of interest is if the 11 are combined from the two phones or all from one phone. Each ping involves the ID of the cell phone. It is not something that just happens like a ghost signal or something. Each of those pings says that the phone was in the area and on. And that is critical info.

Another critical piece of info is the time of the pings. Did they accelerate in number before stopping? That suggests moving. Pinging more than one tower suggests moving. By "stopping" we mean that is last ping recorded. If there was any bunching of pings before the last one that suggests the phone(s) were moved.

The stopping can be one of batteries pulled, phones dropped in water, or driven out of distance of towers that were interrogated. Given that Jennifer has never been found in the area, driving out of the area can't be disregarded. The gas gauge thing means nothing when you start driving the previous night.

I am absolutely baffled why the valuable data of 11 pings is considered ridiculous.

And more importantly, how in the world both phones never being heard from again around same time is anything but the most valuable of data as to what happened to Jennifer.

I so appreciate your knowledge on the cellphone pings and wonder if, when a person calls a cellphone, even if the phone is off, does it ping on a tower? It would stand to reason that if the battery was removed, maybe not, but I am fairly certain that the family, co-workers and friends called her number for days hoping that she would answer. I have been trying to research if the technology of "pings" was any different in 2006 and today, but from what I've read, it doesn't seem so and now truly believe that OPD has mislead Mr. Kesse.

 

[kay74]

Don't think I'm crazy, but did they ever get DNA from the outside of the door from the person who knocked on it? Did she have a peeper hole in the door to see who it was or did she just randomly answered it? I never would have gone to the door randomly, especially in a busy condo complex and I believe it was after 10 pm.

 

[rd_jfc]

I so appreciate your knowledge on the cellphone pings and wonder if, when a person calls a cellphone, even if the phone is off, does it ping on a tower? It would stand to reason that if the battery was removed, maybe not, but I am fairly certain that the family, co-workers and friends called her number for days hoping that she would answer. I have been trying to research if the technology of "pings" was any different in 2006 and today, but from what I've read, it doesn't seem so and now truly believe that OPD has mislead Mr. Kesse.

I posted a ton on this several pages back. Probably one of the most difficult information searches I've ever undertaken. This question is buried under a tsunami of CIA conspiracy information. But outside of that specific question, the general working model is that pings establish a controlling tower to the phone company, and when a phone call or text message is sent to the phone, it is sent to the last controlling tower of record. If there is no response, you get the goes straight to voice mail instead of rings for phone calls.

I don't know if there is an equivalent "log in" and "log out" for cell phones where turning on essentially logs in with a specific code in addition to normal pinging to determine controlling tower and essentially a log out when powered off that replaces last tower of record with not in service so that phone company wouldn't even send phone call / text to last tower to look for a response but instead go straight to voice mail.

 

[Doghairrules]

It sounds to me like LE approached the Kesse's with words to imply they did not know their daughter. That deeply offended them. Just for thought sake, consider this was around the time the Jennifer lookalike was on the radar of law enforcement.

BBM - He doesn't clarify this. In my opinion, the pings came from Jennifer's cell phone because Travis' phone was off.

This is only my opinion but I stick with it. Phones, even in 2006, gave a "final event" ping. Experts can recognize this ping from the others and it always sounds to me as if Mr. Kesse is describing this event when he discusses the phones either being destroyed or having their batteries removed.

That is why Travis' phone sent it's final ping--even when powered down. They still have the ability to connect with a tower one final time if they are being rendered useless. It is like someone taking their lives and they scream.

The "new" time of between 10:20 pm and 10:40 pm fits succinctly. It would be hard to destroy them both at once.

And interestingly enough, both Mr. and Mrs. Kesse have been fairly consistent with the information of this "final event" ping coming from both phones. Most of their issues seem to be concerning the pings that show movement.

They believe she was abducted in the morning. She didn't go out the night before. The rest has to be hogwash/law enforcement bull. Could be, who knows?

The pings suggest movement. They place the phones in an area where Mr. & Mrs. Kesse believe wholeheartedly that Jennifer would never go. Especially at that hour.

Mr. Kesse says he even recently spoke to someone in law enforcement who put him in touch with someone from Verizon. Apparently they all think the pings are crap, crap and nothing more than crap.

I say give it to a prosecutor--they get the real experts in. Not local, but from the head office. Those guys know what they are looking at.

The car didn't have to be driven far to get to a very rough neighborhood, is my understanding. Anyway, he describes one ping as being in area "A", for example; then it quickly swings to area "B," which is 20 to 30 miles away. He says. Obviously, he doesn't understand (even as much as I do) about tower shifting.

Yes, I agree with this. Because at this point, it doesn't matter whether she went missing PM of the 23rd or AM of the 24th. She has been missing for 12 years.

And if she did not have her purse or briefcase with her that means she did not simply shove the phones in something she was carrying with her as she headed out the door.

The above is simply an opinion post from me, I recommend you listen for yourself.

Here is the link. Most of it is clear; a little is garbled.

https://audioboom.com/posts/6334818-going-forward

I think you and RD-JFC should contact the podcast and talk to them about the cell information.

I’ve learned a lot from both of you!!

 

[Markybug]

If jen left as assumed in the am , surely her phone would have pinged then? Unless the battery went flat overnight, bit that would be hugely coincidental? Especially as she used it as a alarm clock?

 

[rd_jfc]

I think you and RD-JFC should contact the podcast and talk to them about the cell information.

I’ve learned a lot from both of you!!

Thanks! But I'd rather Verizon discuss it. This silliness of disregarding the ping information has gone on 12 years too long.

 

[rd_jfc]

It sounds to me like LE approached the Kesse's with words to imply they did not know their daughter. That deeply offended them. Just for thought sake, consider this was around the time the Jennifer lookalike was on the radar of law enforcement.

BBM - He doesn't clarify this. In my opinion, the pings came from Jennifer's cell phone because Travis' phone was off.

This is only my opinion but I stick with it. Phones, even in 2006, gave a "final event" ping. Experts can recognize this ping from the others and it always sounds to me as if Mr. Kesse is describing this event when he discusses the phones either being destroyed or having their batteries removed.

That is why Travis' phone sent it's final ping--even when powered down. They still have the ability to connect with a tower one final time if they are being rendered useless. It is like someone taking their lives and they scream.

The "new" time of between 10:20 pm and 10:40 pm fits succinctly. It would be hard to destroy them both at once.

And interestingly enough, both Mr. and Mrs. Kesse have been fairly consistent with the information of this "final event" ping coming from both phones. Most of their issues seem to be concerning the pings that show movement.

They believe she was abducted in the morning. She didn't go out the night before. The rest has to be hogwash/law enforcement bull. Could be, who knows?

The pings suggest movement. They place the phones in an area where Mr. & Mrs. Kesse believe wholeheartedly that Jennifer would never go. Especially at that hour.

Mr. Kesse says he even recently spoke to someone in law enforcement who put him in touch with someone from Verizon. Apparently they all think the pings are crap, crap and nothing more than crap.

I say give it to a prosecutor--they get the real experts in. Not local, but from the head office. Those guys know what they are looking at.

The car didn't have to be driven far to get to a very rough neighborhood, is my understanding. Anyway, he describes one ping as being in area "A", for example; then it quickly swings to area "B," which is 20 to 30 miles away. He says. Obviously, he doesn't understand (even as much as I do) about tower shifting.

Yes, I agree with this. Because at this point, it doesn't matter whether she went missing PM of the 23rd or AM of the 24th. She has been missing for 12 years.

And if she did not have her purse or briefcase with her that means she did not simply shove the phones in something she was carrying with her as she headed out the door.

The above is simply an opinion post from me, I recommend you listen for yourself.

Here is the link. Most of it is clear; a little is garbled.

https://audioboom.com/posts/6334818-going-forward

The pings suggest movement. They place the phones in an area where Mr. & Mrs. Kesse believe wholeheartedly that Jennifer would never go. Especially at that hour.

Out of all your great information here, this one raises questions with me. Why would anyone assume Jennifer was in the area of her own volition? You have a disappearance and an almost certain abduction. An area Jennifer would never go? That is why it's called an abduction.

 

[liz b.]

Everyone is aware this is one tough case to solve.
How is LE going to do this?

Firstly we need a crime scene.

What is your best guess as to where the crime scene is?

There might have been more than 1 crime scene. Could possibly be the condo, or her vehicle. Or wherever she was taken. jmo

 

[liz b.]

The pings suggest movement. They place the phones in an area where Mr. & Mrs. Kesse believe wholeheartedly that Jennifer would never go. Especially at that hour.

Out of all your great information here, this one raises questions with me. Why would anyone assume Jennifer was in the area of her own volition? You have a disappearance and an almost certain abduction. An area Jennifer would never go? That is why it's called an abduction.

Absolutely agree. But,imo, OPD's attitude was set from the very beginning. I read that her bf said they had argued during their phone convo. Right there, OPD believed she had left of her own volition. And initial beliefs and assumptions are hard to change, even when it becomes glaringly obvious that those initial beliefs are invalid. I wonder if that initial assessment never really left OPD's views of the case. jmo.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Everyone is aware this is one tough case to solve.
How is LE going to do this?

Firstly we need a crime scene.

What is your best guess as to where the crime scene is?

You asked for a guess, so I'm going to give you mine. I'm most likely not right, but it really is something I ponder over. Many may not agree and that is a good thing.

It would be a boring old discussion if we all agreed.

So, I think someone pulled Jenn in that empty condo across the hall. It was kept unlocked and I first read it had the cabinets stripped out of it and lately I have read it had no carpet.

Jenn's brother and his friend apparently looked around in there on the 24th, but no time was given. Also, LE did eventually get around to perfunctory search but Mrs. Kesse wasn't certain exactly when.

I reserve the right to change my mind, but for right now; that's where I favor.

I agree with your comment, btw. I think they need a little bit of luck. They never seemed to have any; the dang POI had it all.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Don't think I'm crazy, but did they ever get DNA from the outside of the door from the person who knocked on it?

I'd be surprised if they even tried.

Did she have a peeper hole in the door to see who it was or did she just randomly answered it? I never would have gone to the door randomly, especially in a busy condo complex

Just through discussion, it's been said that she did have a peeper hole, but the Kesse's have never confirmed that.

I don't believe for a second that Jennifer would have opened her door without knowing who was on the other side of it. But, you know, "they" say one should always call out to let whoever is knocking know that you are home--much the way it used to be said that we should answer our phones if they rang at night as burglars would apparently call to see if someone was home.

Mr. Kesse said that she didn't answer the door, just told whoever she was speaking with that it was her upstairs, male, neighbor. So, I dunno.

... and I believe it was after 10 pm.

The time of the knock hasn't been confirmed.