FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #12

[JnRyan]

As far as Jennifer's car there are some things I don't believe we know and LE may not either. As far as how it would be known what distance her car traveled that day, we don't know for sure when she last filled up (there would be no record of a cash transaction if Jennifer merely put in a few gallons), we don't know the odometer readings unless there is a very recent service or safety inspection (I don't know if FL had safety inspections then) or the mpg of that particular car. However, if the CNN/Nancy Grace article is correct there was no forensic evidence of Jennifer being transported in her vehicle. And there was almost no forensic evidence with regard to an unknown driver. I can't see the driver cleaning the car of his DNA, hair and fingerprints that well so maybe the car was only driven 1-2 miles to HOTG. That is what make me believe the car was not driven far.

That means we have another vehicle? When was Jennifer's vehicle moved from the condo complex? And if Jennifer wasn't transported - alive or deceased - in her car why move it? To confuse LE? If this was a morning abduction in a 2nd vehicle the abductor could have driven for an hour, did what he did and driven back to complex. If Jennifer was murdered - and I believe she was - he could have done that quickly and driven back. Then move Jennifer's car to HOTG. Anything further he needed to do at the crime scene he drove to earlier he could have taken his time to go back and clean up - toss the briefcase, purse and cell phones. Considering this scenario, I would hope LE vacuumed the interior for any soil or plant evidence. I've never heard if LE checked traffic cameras or business surveillance cameras on the roads leading to HOTG either. If LE did and saw her car hopefully that can come into play later if they ID a suspect.

And if we have an evening abduction that changes things somewhat. And then I'm back to my question as to whether or not Jennifer's car was there at 0730. In any event, Jennifer's car was somewhere else if only to be driven from her parking spot to HOTG.

 

[rd_jfc]

You've obviously done some great research. My comments weren't about finding a cell phone though. They were in relation to understanding where the caller is, or was, based on cell phone pings.

My only comment pertaining to cell phone location was that I just don't know how someone would know why a cell phone was not making contact with a tower, if they don't actually have possession of the phone.

I'm sorry, by cell phone location I mean where the caller was at time. I don't mean anything about finding the cell phone now with that phrase, as in current cell phone location or something. I'm saying no one is talking in this thread about location of where Jennifer was with cell phones as regards to what little info has been divulged about ping data or anything else.

I get that one can't tell the difference between a powered down phone and one with the battery removed, they both don't ping for the most part. But if you do a search on it you will find reams of stuff about cell phones being activated to send pings which discloses the location of the cell phone even though thought it was off. I have no idea if even remotely true but you can't get a straight answer wading through a gazillion CIA conspiracy posts.

Presumably batteries removed doesn't mean anything. It doesn't change anything. They're just saying there were no more pings. I agree it's overkill to say presumably the batteries were removed.

Thanks for being so patient.

 

[rd_jfc]

As far as Jennifer's car there are some things I don't believe we know and LE may not either. As far as how it would be known what distance her car traveled that day, we don't know for sure when she last filled up (there would be no record of a cash transaction if Jennifer merely put in a few gallons), we don't know the odometer readings unless there is a very recent service or safety inspection (I don't know if FL had safety inspections then) or the mpg of that particular car. However, if the CNN/Nancy Grace article is correct there was no forensic evidence of Jennifer being transported in her vehicle. And there was almost no forensic evidence with regard to an unknown driver. I can't see the driver cleaning the car of his DNA, hair and fingerprints that well so maybe the car was only driven 1-2 miles to HOTG. That is what make me believe the car was not driven far.

That means we have another vehicle? When was Jennifer's vehicle moved from the condo complex? And if Jennifer wasn't transported - alive or deceased - in her car why move it? To confuse LE? If this was a morning abduction in a 2nd vehicle the abductor could have driven for an hour, did what he did and driven back to complex. If Jennifer was murdered - and I believe she was - he could have done that quickly and driven back. Then move Jennifer's car to HOTG. Anything further he needed to do at the crime scene he drove to earlier he could have taken his time to go back and clean up - toss the briefcase, purse and cell phones. Considering this scenario, I would hope LE vacuumed the interior for any soil or plant evidence. I've never heard if LE checked traffic cameras or business surveillance cameras on the roads leading to HOTG either. If LE did and saw her car hopefully that can come into play later if they ID a suspect.

And if we have an evening abduction that changes things somewhat. And then I'm back to my question as to whether or not Jennifer's car was there at 0730. In any event, Jennifer's car was somewhere else if only to be driven from her parking spot to HOTG.

There was a post not long ago explaining this. Kesses had a card payment at gas station I believe it was said Monday morning which would be on her way to work from S. Florida. The location of the gas station and mileage to work, then work to home would gve them their computation. It's something to go on but pretty rough. Also I believe was said they considered her normal use of trip odometer but that's pretty rough too.

If supposed to have taken place within four hours then there wouldn't be much driving anyway, although where Jennifer and her bags are within a few miles of her condo is hard to imagine. If a nighttime abduction there is no way to know if gas was put into the car. They are just assuming the morning abduction on that not far thing.

"No evidence of transport" I think this is another way of saying no hair or other evidence in trunk. If Jennifer was subdued as in rendered unconscious and placed in passenger seat I don't think they could distinguish from indications from her driving the car daily. I do agree nothing left behind by POI would seem to be a short duration in car. Even a short duration you would think would be hard not to leave some trace, maybe just hard to find as far as traces in the car. Gloves (even latex) would take care of fingerprints and DNA.

I think you're on to something about another car, but not from Mosaic. My belief is that Jennifer was abducted when she drove somewhere near, say parking lot at mall. Thinking about it it is more probable that in an abduction she would be forced to abductor's vehicle and rendered immobile, possibly unconscious. Then abductors vehicle would be driven to wherever.

The return and driving Jennifer's car to HOTG would be to not be obvious what happened, as for example studying surveillance video of where her car was found (shades of HOTG). Her car wasn't even parked at HOTG in a spot close to the street or across the street in the strip mall parking lot, but parked to make it look like abductor lived at HOTG.

So Jennifer's car would be driven next to no extra miles, just to wherever she was abducted (a short distance at most I think we would all agree) and then from there to HOTG. From corner at HOTG POI could take bus back to whereever Jennifer's car / his vehicle had been parked.

That also accounts for no forensics in Jennifer's car and I think anyone savvy enough to disable both cell phones would not make her car a crime scene, thus no forensics except short drive to HOTG.

 

[JnRyan]

That also accounts for no forensics in Jennifer's car and I think anyone savvy enough to disable both cell phones would not make her car a crime scene, thus no forensics except short drive to HOTG.

And my belief is that leads me away from your typical foreign worker. In 2006, I don't think most supervisors of such work groups would have been knowledgeable enough to know about the phones. The lack of physical evidence looks more like someone who thought this out thoroughly and planned well. And that further leads me to wonder if this was someone Jennifer knew.

 

[Rosa913]

I would like to know if Jennifer' s ex-boyfriend is still a friend of Jennifer's brother. Do they see each other regularly like friends?

 

[shelly111]

i looked at few Fedexstores near jennifer's home.There is a Fedex store on john young parkway, close to mosaic .Therr is s Fedex on s kirkmsn rd on the way to her work.
Jenniger left early tgat day ,she was going to send the phone from work,but she changed her mind and decided to stop at one of the Fedex stores.she wanted to get it over first thing in the morning.
Even if there are cameras , jennifer could have parked in an area out of the camera view, no people there, maybe it was not open yey.She went out of her car with the phone in her hand.
He attacked jennifer and took all her stuff , her keys ,purse ... abducted jennifer and drove away with his car.
later that morning he came back to remove her car and drove it to the parking place where it was found.
On 1994 a womam who was living in one of the apts on s kirkman rd went missing as well and was never found.
There is a serial killer in this area and he abducted jennifer. Also several women are missing from the orlando area

 

[liz b.]

i looked at few Fedexstores near jennifer's home.There is a Fedex store on john young parkway, close to mosaic .Therr is s Fedex on s kirkmsn rd on the way to her work.
Jenniger left early tgat day ,she was going to send the phone from work,but she changed her mind and decided to stop at one of the Fedex stores.she wanted to get it over first thing in the morning.
Even if there are cameras , jennifer could have parked in an area out of the camera view, no people there, maybe it was not open yey.She went out of her car with the phone in her hand.
He attacked jennifer and took all her stuff , her keys ,purse ... abducted jennifer and drove away with his car.
later that morning he came back to remove her car and drove it to the parking place where it was found.
On 1994 a womam who was living in one of the apts on s kirkman rd went missing as well and was never found.
There is a serial killer in this area and he abducted jennifer. Also several women are missing from the orlando area

Can you tell me a little more about the woman who disappeared in 1997 ? TIA.

 

[Rust Cohle]

The 10:40 PM time of the phones being powered down is something I can't ignore after Mr. Kesse's post on the guestbook. I can't reconcile that with the retraction on Unconcluded. What does remain is BOTH were supposedly powered off at the same time. That does 2 things for me - the abductor got possession of both phones and he knew enough to power both down so he won't be tracked. I would imagine even the most sophisticated cell phone user would have stopped searching for a phone after he found hers so how did come across both? The fact that he would power both down leads me away from the workers, who in 2005, probably aren't knowledgeable enough to know that about cell phones.

With the bathroom situation, her clothes laid out and both phones being found I can see a morning abduction. Then again the workers stated they surely didn't see her and they apparently noticed her from her complaints about the workers. She was apparently a person of habit and she wasn't seen walking to her car at 0730-0745 that morning so something prior to her leaving interrupted her routine? I tend to lean toward a morning abduction. A morning abduction is not out for me as look what happened with Kelsey Smith in the Kansas City area: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kelsey_Smith And if the abductor came back at 10:00 AM - 11:00 AM to get the car and move it only a mile he may have not left much forensic evidence in the car that he needed to remove.

But I can't rule out an evening abduction. The 10:40 time still bothers me. Did Jennifer ever put her briefcase in her car the evening before? Was this an opportunistic event where she went to the car to put the briefcase in and take the DVD player out? Or was she lured out of her condo. A local call to her landline would not show in phone records so could she have been called and she went to her car? If this was a planned event, that might have worked and night time would seem to be preferable to a morning abduction. Easier to hide in the dark and blitz attack her. Easier to do whatever it is the abductor had planned in the dark. More time to thoroughly clean the car of forensic evidence. And coming back to get Jennifer's car in mid morning leaves a chance that the workers might have seen him.

The location or lack thereof of the car at 0730-0745 is lacking for me in all this. The workers noted Jennifer due to her striking good looks so would they noticed her car being gone that morning from its designated spot? Wasn't the property manager notified at mid to late morning that day? Did he wait for the Kesse's who didn't arrive till 3:00 PM or did he go to the condo and knock on her door that morning? Since I've seen from other shows (Disappeared, Van Susteren?) that the parking places were marked with the condo's number would he have checked her spot to see if a car was there?

I have too many unanswered questions about the phones and the car.

The phones don't have to be powered down or have their battery removed, 10:40 could have been the time her bag was tossed into water and the phones died.

My opinion on the car is it was located somewhere that would increminate someone.

I don't buy into the towels, or the clothes or even her normal routine per coming home from vacation.



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[shelly111]

the woman is melisa sloan she was the same age as jennifer in her 20's, blonde
blue eyes like jennifer.
she lived with ber husband 5 min from mosaic where jennifer lived at
1900 s kirkman rd. she left one morning,her car was still in her house and was never seen again
she did have problems with her husband and was going to leave him. The husband said she left him for another man.
The husband was never a suspect in her dissapearance but the family don't believe him, they say melisa will never leave her cat and just walk away.

 

[Connected]

Ditto Rust Cohle!

 

[Connected]

But JnRyan, the admin of the Help Find Jennifer Kesse Post, Harlee Ann, commented on the Unconcluded Podcast Discussion Page a few days ago : the friend (travis's) phone lost power over the wekend. They weren't powered down at the same time , according to Harlee Ann.

 

[Connected]

If only one fiber and one print in Jenn's car, doesn't that mean it was professionally cleaned??

 

[Harmony 2]

It is against TOS to sleuth the victim's friends and others who have not been designated as suspects. This includes posting information from their facebook pages. It is also against TOS to make random accusations suggesting their involvement.

Continuing to post in this manner may result in losing posting privileges.

Final warning!

 

[liz b.]

If only one fiber and one print in Jenn's car, doesn't that mean it was professionally cleaned??

A LEO once told me that it's not all that unusual not to find prints in vehicles. The surfaces inside a vehicle don't hold prints that well....the one fiber,though, is a different story, fwiw...

 

[htiff]

A LEO once told me that it's not all that unusual not to find prints in vehicles. The surfaces inside a vehicle don't hold prints that well....the one fiber,though, is a different story, fwiw...

That's really interesting. Makes sense.

 

[kemo]

I still think the phone evidence is important and LE is holding back critical information. I suspect the issue of AM/PM abduction is pretty well settled by it. Such as it is, there is little we can make of it except conjecture.

Jen's car, on the other hand, is a significant piece of evidence that we have enough evidence to make some reasonable inferences.

Jen apparently filled her tank in Ft. Lauderdale Monday morning. Hopefully the OPD made the effort to measure the consumed gasoline by topping off the tank and comparing the gas used with the expected gas used by factoring the distance of highway and city driving with the manufacturer's estimated mileage. Obviously, the condition of her car, the traffic conditions that day and her style of driving will effect the gas mileage that car would get so all that LE would be able to obtain would be a reasonable estimate; perhaps a maximum/minimum additional miles the car had been driven. That could tell us quite a lot.
.
It has been reported that the amount of gas remaining in the tank would be consistent with very "little" additional driving. Hopefully this was based on careful measurements and not just a "guesstimate based on eyeballing the gas gauge.

Since the tank would be around half full when Jen got home, there would have plenty of gas in the tank for the perpetrator to do whatever he did without putting in additional gas. There is always the possibility that the perpetrator either drove so far as to require additional gas or he added gas to conceal how much he had driven.

It has been reported that none of the workmen or anyone else at Mosaic recalled seeing Jen's car in her parking place that day but I don't think that we can draw any conclusions. While some of the men working there were probably aware that a Tall Blonde lived in one of the units, it is very likely that none of them knew or cared what car she drove or paid any attention to whether or not it was in it's assigned space that day. They would likely notice if that Tall Blonde, who usually came and went alone, left in the morning with some guy or if a woman man, by himself, was seen in that car that day.

It is not clear if there were any men working near Jen's parking space around 7:30-7:45 that morning. It is likely that there was someone within earshot that morning yet no one reported a struggle or a scream. If Jen was abducted at her car, it would have been done quickly and quietly; probably with a weapon.

The fact that no unaccounted for fingerprints, DNA or other forensic evidence was found doesn't prove much but it is very suggestive that the perpetrator only spent time in the part of the car he could readily wipe clean, no dead body was transported in it and the car was not driven where dirt, mud, or vegetation would be picked up.

Sexually motivated abductions often utilized a "three crime scene" approach where the abduction occurs where opportunity permits, the victim is taken to a spot where the perpetrator feels comfortable and safe, then the body is disposed of at a site that can not be linked to the perpetrator.

The "safe zone" where the perpetrator does whatever he set out to do might be his own home, a vacant home or commercial property that he has access to. It could be outdoors but it would have to be somewhere it could be certain no one including trespassers or homeless types might venture. This would preclude most urban areas. An additional consideration would be that he must be able to transfer the victim between the vehicle and the safe are without being seen. A single family home with a garage would work well. Multi family units or commercial buildings with multiple tenants would probably not work. The dump site is often away from paved roads in undeveloped land.

I can't say that were someone to return to the Mosaic close to noon and drive off in Jen's car he would be noticed but it is very possible. It would be extremely risky for someone to do it and I see no advantage in moving the car a mile away as some sort of misdirection. I am pretty confident the car was used in the abduction and the perpetrator used it to return to Mosaic where he lived, worked or most likely, left his own vehicle.
Assuming the phone evidence does not support a PM abduction, dropping Jen's care off around noon further supports an AM abduction. If the abduction occurred in the evening and Jen was not transferred any long distance, the perpetrator would want to drop the car late at night at a time when there were few people around.

Everything seems to point to planned abduction or at least, a criminally sophisticated perpetrator who was able to carry out a multi step caper without making a serious mistake.

 

[liz b.]

I still think the phone evidence is important and LE is holding back critical information. I suspect the issue of AM/PM abduction is pretty well settled by it. Such as it is, there is little we can make of it except conjecture.

Jen's car, on the other hand, is a significant piece of evidence that we have enough evidence to make some reasonable inferences.

Jen apparently filled her tank in Ft. Lauderdale Monday morning. Hopefully the OPD made the effort to measure the consumed gasoline by topping off the tank and comparing the gas used with the expected gas used by factoring the distance of highway and city driving with the manufacturer's estimated mileage. Obviously, the condition of her car, the traffic conditions that day and her style of driving will effect the gas mileage that car would get so all that LE would be able to obtain would be a reasonable estimate; perhaps a maximum/minimum additional miles the car had been driven. That could tell us quite a lot.
.
It has been reported that the amount of gas remaining in the tank would be consistent with very "little" additional driving. Hopefully this was based on careful measurements and not just a "guesstimate based on eyeballing the gas gauge.

Since the tank would be around half full when Jen got home, there would have plenty of gas in the tank for the perpetrator to do whatever he did without putting in additional gas. There is always the possibility that the perpetrator either drove so far as to require additional gas or he added gas to conceal how much he had driven.

It has been reported that none of the workmen or anyone else at Mosaic recalled seeing Jen's car in her parking place that day but I don't think that we can draw any conclusions. While some of the men working there were probably aware that a Tall Blonde lived in one of the units, it is very likely that none of them knew or cared what car she drove or paid any attention to whether or not it was in it's assigned space that day. They would likely notice if that Tall Blonde, who usually came and went alone, left in the morning with some guy or if a woman man, by himself, was seen in that car that day.

It is not clear if there were any men working near Jen's parking space around 7:30-7:45 that morning. It is likely that there was someone within earshot that morning yet no one reported a struggle or a scream. If Jen was abducted at her car, it would have been done quickly and quietly; probably with a weapon.

The fact that no unaccounted for fingerprints, DNA or other forensic evidence was found doesn't prove much but it is very suggestive that the perpetrator only spent time in the part of the car he could readily wipe clean, no dead body was transported in it and the car was not driven where dirt, mud, or vegetation would be picked up.

Sexually motivated abductions often utilized a "three crime scene" approach where the abduction occurs where opportunity permits, the victim is taken to a spot where the perpetrator feels comfortable and safe, then the body is disposed of at a site that can not be linked to the perpetrator.

The "safe zone" where the perpetrator does whatever he set out to do might be his own home, a vacant home or commercial property that he has access to. It could be outdoors but it would have to be somewhere it could be certain no one including trespassers or homeless types might venture. This would preclude most urban areas. An additional consideration would be that he must be able to transfer the victim between the vehicle and the safe are without being seen. A single family home with a garage would work well. Multi family units or commercial buildings with multiple tenants would probably not work. The dump site is often away from paved roads in undeveloped land.

I can't say that were someone to return to the Mosaic close to noon and drive off in Jen's car he would be noticed but it is very possible. It would be extremely risky for someone to do it and I see no advantage in moving the car a mile away as some sort of misdirection. I am pretty confident the car was used in the abduction and the perpetrator used it to return to Mosaic where he lived, worked or most likely, left his own vehicle.
Assuming the phone evidence does not support a PM abduction, dropping Jen's care off around noon further supports an AM abduction. If the abduction occurred in the evening and Jen was not transferred any long distance, the perpetrator would want to drop the car late at night at a time when there were few people around.

Everything seems to point to planned abduction or at least, a criminally sophisticated perpetrator who was able to carry out a multi step caper without making a serious mistake.

Mr. Kesse has said that the gardeners, who worked on the area next to JK's car every Tuesday morning, said that they did NOT see her walking to her car that morning. I am guessing that they were interviewed quite early on, which would bolster what they said. jmo I have never seen any reports which state that JK's vehicle wasn't there that morning. For example, I didn't see that the gardeners said the vehicle wasn't there. That is the key to many unresolved points, the location of her vehicle when the gardeners were there. It's something LE will know, because I'm sure it was asked of the gardeners. Why has LE never made public whether the car was in the parking space or not ? jmo

 

[rd_jfc]

It's one thing to say you didn't see the young woman walk out to to her car, another altogether to be sure that the car was not there. I doubt they were sure enough to make a statement like that. I don't think the Orlando Police have anything to divulge on that if they wanted to.

In addition they had been saying last they were saying anything that they believe Jennifer was abducted in her parking lot going to work. This despite the gardeners not seeing her and most certainly not an abduction, so even what Orlando Police says doesn't make any sense.

 

[liz b.]

It's one thing to say you didn't see the young woman walk out to to her car, another altogether to be sure that the car was not there. I doubt they were sure enough to make a statement like that. I don't think the Orlando Police have anything to divulge on that if they wanted to.

In addition they had been saying last they were saying anything that they believe Jennifer was abducted in her parking lot going to work. This despite the gardeners not seeing her and most certainly not an abduction, so even what Orlando Police says doesn't make any sense.

I read that LE believes that JK was abducted in the stairwell of her condo. IDK...it looks so close to the area where the gardeners were...Also, it just seems a bit unlikely, that she was grabbed in the stairwell. Where was she taken ? And when was she moved ? Because the family was on this fast, and LE was there quite quickly...that's what I can't see with a morning abduction. Somehow I'm kind of leaning to a nighttime event, but jmo...

 

[Connected]

Harmony, who are you speaking about? I hope not about my comments specific to the admin of a certain site. I never named anyone a suspect. The two individuals associated with the site i mentioned are helping with the case...And the friend whose phone was powered down was NEVER EVER a suspect in the case to my knowledge. He is not the ex, and he was / is not under suspicion. bottom line, none of the 'names' in the post are suspects, then or now